A shroom community was removed from lemmy.world as it was considered “illegal” content by the admins. The logic behind this is boggling, to say the least.
Marijuana is considered an illegal substance in some states in the US and is still federally illegal. /c/trees should be banned, correct?
Clown pictures of Putin are absolutely considered illegal in Russia, so that should require and immediate ban.
Freedom of speech can also be considered illegal in some places.
Incest is considered illegal so that should automatically trigger a ban on all incest porn, real or not. Hell, porn is universally taboo, so that shouldn’t have any place on this instance, I guess.
You see where I am going with this? Rule 1 is a catch-all and needs clarification. Simply saying something is illegal is not quite enough. Owning and sharing pictures of shrooms is not illegal. Trading spores or mycelium is generally not illegal either.
This is not about me being salty (which I am) about the community being removed and forced to relocate. It’s the odd bias that was applied to justify its removal.
Please note that I said fix Rule 1, not remove it. There are some really bad things on the internet that shouldn’t use lemmy as a safe haven.
Oof, yeah I fully agree.
We should be able to discus drugs, because whether you like it or not, drugs are part of the world, and part of life of many humans.
Most of us use drugs on a daily or weekly basis. Nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, weed, etc. We should be able to talk about these things.
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Okay I didn’t expect stricter rules here than on Reddit honestly.
To be clear, this is an instance choice. You can still find drug friendly instances and subscribe to the communities.
…But then, you risk e.g. lemmy.world and other big instances defederating from your new instance. Lemmy has some design problems.
Not a flaw, you’re literally describing a feature of federation. A shitty feature imo, but the site was designed for that
If we were talking about defederating from instances that promote pedophilia, would you still consider it a shitty feature?
Federation, or defederation, is kind of the core of a federated platform. Having different instances with different rules would make moderation impossible if defederation did not exist, maybe not in most cases but at the very least when it comes to fringe groups having their own instances.
You can have multiple accounts across multiple instances. Just don’t reuse passwords because rogue admins can set up their web interface to just give them plaintext passwords (and possibly also do that through other clients, depending on how the protocol handles passwords).
Lemm.ee is your friend
Me neither, thought 😔🤔 there was gonna be sum kind o freedom or sum shit
Agree 100 percent, just because something is illegal it does not make it illegal to talk about it.
I wish other people were making this point as well. Certain content is illegal various places around the world, and I don’t think anyone is saying we want the admins to risk that, but entire communities are - at worst - slightly more prone than others to having users post illegal content. If I post illegal content anywhere, sure, go ahead and remove/ban. But removing discussion of entire topics, just because those communities* might* be places where people might be a little more likely try and post such content, just isn’t making sense to me. Isn’t it the content, not the name of the channel, that’s the issue, or am I missing something?
Y’all could set up on psychedelia.ink instead: “A Lemmy instance for all things psychedelia or psychedelia-adjacent.”
There may be other appropriate specialized instances as well, that was just the first one that I noticed.
This is the solution. Communities need to congregate on smaller, like-minded instances. It makes sense to concentrate users on large instances, but communities should be spread out.
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Is there a place for something in between de-federated and federated?
That’s what blocking a community is - if the instance does not allow anyone to subscribe to a community, the content from that community will not be mirrored locally.
Is there not some kind of ‘gray-list’ that would allow risky content to stay accessible through home instances but behave more as a direct link
The indirect approach you describe isn’t compatible with the underlying ActivityPub protocol. My understanding is that all communities are effectively local, even when their home is on a different instance. Federation just allows modification of the “local” content by another instance.
(That is not to say that [email protected] is the same community as [email protected], rather that the two communities are accessed in the same way by the UI)
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I suppose it could still be done as a read-only display of content …
If the content is hyperlinks / torrent links to copyrighted content, then even a read-only copy is illegal. Lemmy (by virtue of ActivityPub) isn’t designed to access stuff remotely - the closest it could probably come would be to have links to the posts on the remote community, though adding a level of indirection is probably not enough to become legal.
If you want to do illegal stuff on the internet, you need to use services that are hosted where it isn’t illegal. People yelling about freedom doesn’t change the fact that admins aren’t willing to go to jail for your warez.
This is my leaning.
Y’all gotta stop that whining and really lean into the “Blackjacks and Hookers” solution.
Yeah, this is why I like topic-specialized instances:
- They have admins that are actually interested in the topic and will tailor the rules appropriately.
- Hopefully are set up in and administered from friendly jurisdictions, to reduce legal risk.
- Will be less likely to shy away from the risk of (possibly frivolous) legal action, whereas the admins of a general instance are more inclined to play it safe.
We need to think of what we’re doing here less as recreating reddit, and more as linking together all those old phpBB-style enthusiast forums.
That’s an excellent way to think about it! Especially with links between forums taking you to the other site, and a lack of account sharing, this isn’t a distributed Reddit. Trying to make Lemmy into that causes all sorts of issues-- What instance do I search on to find [insert community here]? Where should I make my account? Even stuff like every community or user gravitating towards a few large instances. Each instance should be meaningfully distinct, with a set of communities related to a particular topic. This works best with the infrastructure and I feel like it would help solidify the culture as well. It would really help out the Local communities option too. Your choice of instance(s) should be meaningful, not meaningless.
I agree, it needs to be more clear about what would be removed.
The piracy instance needs to be reinstated too. The admins of this community make Reddit look good.
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Ditto.
Attention lemmy.world admins; don’t become a spez, that fire is still burning.
This.
I don’t understand why even piracy was banned. The sub is still prominent on Reddit and they don’t actually host any links. You have to find them yourself.
Just GO THAT ROUTE YOU FUCKING IDIOT MODS.
Agreed about the need for clarity. There’s probably nothing that isn’t illegal somewhere. So what’s the standard here?
Gonna be that guy. But just because something is legal in one place doesn’t mean it is legal where the instance/owner is located. And the owner is protecting their own skin, I would do the same. Can also be realted to the host.
So as others have mentioned, it’s better to find an instance welcoming this kind of content.
OP’s point stands. If that’s the case, be specific about it. Have a rule saying no drugs. Otherwise rule 1 is just a vague excuse to ban anything and everything
This is a fair take. If world can’t legally host this stuff say so.
Now if it won’t do so, because the owner of world is some Puritan, then that also needs to be disclosed so I can immediately stop my donations to the sever.
That is why I am asking for clarification around rule 1. I am sure many people would be glad to comply and start communities on other instances because of local laws and such.
It’s an extremely vague rule, is what my point is.
I agree that it would make sense to be more clear. But how clear? List of all things that are illegal? Just those things thay differ from “normal” laws? But then what are we to set as “normal”?
Think the best would be to state where the instance is located and what national and international laws governing it. For example “No illegal content on instace based on German and EU laws”.
Yes. I don’t see why this community cannot move to an instance hosted in a jurisdiction where this is legal.
Just want to also point out that lemmy.world is already a huge instance and these communities would be better if they were spread out to more instances
Yes. I don’t see why this community cannot move to an instance hosted in a jurisdiction where this is legal.
Like banning pics n photos of MUSHROOMS whether psychedelic or not is FUCKING BAZAAR to me … I don’t get it… Are amanita mascaria banned, how about blue meanies , or is it just cubes ? Banning nature / biology / science(mycology) is idiotic
Is there magazines about alcohol, vaping and or tobacco ?
Cause I assure You (Lemmy) shrooms been consumed by humans for far longer then any substances that You allow discussions over, and it’s one of those organic substances that’s more good than bad (obviously it’s not for everyone) but it’s a great 😃👍 substance… "
“several antibiotics have already been isolated from various mushrooms and microfungi (including penicillin and griseofulvin, which are isolated from microfungi)”
Are you gonna ban the discussion over antibiotics next ?
/SMH
A shroom community? That’s disgusting, where?
Not on Lemmy.world, I can tell you that much at least.
I think it’s [email protected] now
Thank
Slow down, Mac…
I groan every time this joke gets copied and pasted. It’s pretty pathetic.
It’s less a joke and more a way to ask for urls with plausible deniability
Nah yeah bro, agreed.
The Fdiverse already seems to be unraveling.
I always thought the model was flawed. Content from other instances should only be viewable and not copied to all instances.
How would that work? Explain your magical, mystical ways of data transfer and storage oh sage one.
The question of legality on Lemmy is something that has to evolve and be discussed because of federation. Stuff on one instance gets replicated on others in other parts of the world. What factors should be the determining ones? The place where the instance is hosted? All the places where the content is replicated? Who is liable? The owner of the originating instance or all the instances that replicate illegal content? If this wasn’t free and open, but rather a huge corporation, the fediverse would have a legal team to decide already.
It’s almost like our made-up borders and laws are somehow at odds with the fact that, in almost all cases, anyone can access any information from any place these days, and that information is replicated and stored across the globe!
We need to assign a good name for this global system of interconnected networks. I admit, I am baffled as to what a good name should be.
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