- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics
- politicalmemes
- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics
- politicalmemes
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/9183854
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The media is just a billionaire propaganda machine. They have to make both sides sound equally right so both sides keep fighting each other instead of fighting the billionaires causing all the problems.
So foolish to think this way.
The longer we sit here and make it about the “other” is another day/year/decade that these people play us and stay in power.
The democrats had the house, senate, and presidency for 4+ years. Where is that Healthcare?
Spoiler: Both sides are bad, they both get paid off. Its just that one side is really fucking honest with you right now … to the point where they commit crimes in public because no one will do anything about it.
This argument is either based on ignorance or bad faith.
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/
“Did President Obama have “total control” of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.”
Correction: They SAY they want health care and education, get elected, and then spend their political capital making most people poorer, doing fascism, and genociding.
Still better than Nazis.
I don’t know that I agree.
The only difference I see here is that, under Democrats, it’s primarily ICE and the cops doing the Nazi things and not CBP, and you’ll recall that after George Floyd was killed Biden used his next SOTU to publicly call for more police militarization.
Also, go look up who first appointed Tom Homan, for a very good example.
Chopping off a finger is better than chopping off an arm.
Yeah that’s literally what living in the US was like
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Two things can be bad.
Neither perfect nor good are in any capacity available anywhere in the US.
Let’s try aiming for “just a teeny tiny bit less evil, but still absolutely despicable”. This sounds realistic.
Evil is also the enemy of good and the lesser evil is still evil.
Equal? Universal healthcare is derided as the delusions of radical extremists. A mere pipedream of anti-semitic tankies, if we’re talking the gambit of American media.
Which side wants healthcare and education? There’s some independents that may want that but the two parties of the apparatchik are the same except one has a veneer to mask the racism. Lest we forget, both sides have bombing brown people schools in the middle east as a hobby…
deleted by creator
Oh, stop. Really.
Is that you Chuck Schummer?
TF does that even mean? If you’re implying I’m a useless tool that comment is about as useful as your tired old “both sides”.
Here let me use someone else’s comment to explain it to you:
The media isn’t talking about general ideas, they’re talking about political policy.
And, no, the Democrats don’t want healthcare and education for everyone as policy, if you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention.
Oh good. Another opinion. And we’re not talking about the media, we’re talking about your comment. Don’t move the goalposts.
And, no, the Democrats don’t want healthcare and education for everyone as policy, if you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention.
And, no, the Democrats don’t want healthcare and education for everyone as policy, if you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention.
And, no, the Democrats don’t want healthcare and education for everyone as policy, if you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention.
Maybe this way you get the important part. If you still cannot get it, let me know with another dumb post, I promise I’ll try to find a way to dumb it down further. Goalposts be damned.
Actually, the other side mostly wants things to stay the same. Their constituents, on the other hand, would like to see better healthcare, education, unions, and stronger safety nets. But since the other side aren’t fascists, their voters are stuck with them.
This right here ☝️. The grassroots democrats I could support. It’s the Chuck Schumers and John Fettermans that will undermine the party from within that make supporting democrats difficult.
There’s always a rotating villain.
Used to be Dianne Feinstein. Then it was Joe Manchin. Then it was that Sinema bitch. Now it’s Fetterman and Schumer.
And people just kind of ignore the pattern and pretend it isn’t a party-wide PR strategy.
Why haven’t the democrats kicked out Fetterman?
Exactly.
Look at how Donald has dealt with people who get out of line. Democrats aren’t powerless. The villain’s part of their party strategy.
He was elected in 2022, so his next election is in 2028.
Senators are elected for 6 years. House Representatives have election every 2 years.
Didn’t stop the democrats from giving the boot to Al Franken halfway into his term.
Rotating villain. He allows them to tell their constituents “we want what you want, we just don’t have the power because of thay one guy, but if you vote just a little harder, we won’t pull the football away this time”, while telling their donors “we ain’t giving them shit lmao”.
How would that work, exactly?
PA senators are not subject to recalls, so it’s out of the hands of the voters. He could technically be impeached and removed from office by the Senate itself… but for what, exactly? It’s not illegal to vote a certain way, even if it’s against the wishes of your constituency.
And even if Fetterman were somehow removed, PA is an extremely competitive state. Remember, he won against Doctor fucking Oz, so the chance of someone even worse coming in to replace him is quite high. The devil you know, etc etc…
Best case scenario is that he gets primaried into irrelevance in 2028 by someone with actual integrity. But even then, I’m not holding my breath…
How would that work, exactly?
You pull all of his committee assignments and neuter his value to lobbyists. If all he has is his vote on the legislation that hits the floor, he can’t do much and it will hurt him both financially and politically, because if you don’t have value to lobbyists they won’t send you “gifts”.
You attack him personally and threaten his business or personal connections. For example, if Dems wanted to pull Manchin in line, for example, they could have sent the DoJ after his daughter for price gouging consumers on pharmaceuticals.
And yes, while it doesn’t matter now, you make sure he knows he’ll be primaried out and smeared like yesterday’s dog shit. Character assassination is effective and could bring someone in line, especially when they’re enthusiastically supporting genocide and Israel’s popularity is in the shitter.
That’s how.
They’ve never been powerless. They’re just complicit.
the media is owned by private individuals with their own agenda.
No, the media doesn’t think that, the owners of the media wants the media to say that they’re equal
We need to keep repeating this, it’s a CLASS war.
It’s always been a class war. Sometimes we do some of the fighting but the rich are always fighting.
The media isn’t talking about general ideas, they’re talking about political policy.
And, no, the Democrats don’t want healthcare and education for everyone as policy, if you think they do, you haven’t been paying attention.
Is it easier for the general population to sway the voting of their democrat representatives towards healthcare and education reform or is it easier to sway the Republican reps? What about primaries, if your rep stubbornly refused to support their constituents desire for healthcare and education, are there democrat candidates that could be more focused on those issues? Are there Republican candidates?
You kind of need to work with the system you have until you can change it. Either you find the revolution, join it and force the change through violence, or you work in the system and push the reps you have to make it what you want it to be. There are no third party reps and won’t be until you switch to a less archaic electoral system which won’t happen without revolution or reps that understand it and see the value.
You kind of need to work with the system you have until you can change it.
Wow, what a lib take. You sound just like this lib:
Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.
-Vladimir Lenin
Quite true,what’s your suggested alternative?Sorry I’m editing this and removing the quite true bit. Part of my post does align with Lenin’s quote (you’ll note I also suggest you need to revolt as alternative, but some people aren’t going to want to try that) so my question still stands. But in addition I’d like to ask, what the fuck are you on about? Are you suggesting you think Lenin was a “lib”?
I completely agree with you. I thought calling Lenin a lib would negate the need for the /s
Apologies for for missing it, I was distracted by a loud whooshing noise like something was flying past my head …
Yeah I was trying to lampoon the lemmings who sincerely believe that participating in elections is fundamentally anti-left. I figured it would be obvious, but to be fair I have seen some particularly counterproductive tankies.
Satire is truly dead.
Yeah, the US gov seems to use The Onion as a manual these days, it desensitises the wider concept of satire because any nonsense could be a real thing.
It’s wild that people think disengaging from the system completely is a solution, particularly when they aren’t pursuing the alternatives. They are always light on what the alternatives are beyond starting an actual revolution (noones doing that, and if they are they are doing a shit job and need to start building some momentum and pressing ahead, turnaround on the plan-implement cycle needs to be quick lest it be dismantled by the state before it can get moving) or wallowing in self pity (not going to help).
I didn’t catch the satire either, but I think it’s because I don’t know you and, well, people say a lot of dumb things on the internet. It is sad that discourse has gotten so stupid that I thought you were serious.
Satire is truly dead.
To be fair tone is hard to read. That said I am not sure our fellow lemms would get it. Some of us here read things to strictly. It reminds me of christian fundies in a way.
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Wow, some slight critisism about this meme and it gets removed? …
And for misinformation no less, that was the reason given.
Can someone help a poor lemming and point to the “misinformation” that warrants the following remark to get deleted? I’m very open to dialogue :)
“It’s not that i don’t get the sentiment, but these extremely biased posts don’t really add much to the discussion either -_-… If we’re gonna go with the worst of what’s claimed about the right wing, shouldn’t you contrast it with the worst of what is claimed about the left wing? “One side wants to bring back slavery, nazis, fascism, and women not being allowed to vote or own property. The other side just wants to let foreigners invade our country, and let them rape our women and children.” This post returns here every month or so, and i really hate it. I kind of get the sentiment obviously, but this “lets put the worst things claimed about the others be contrasted to the best things we think about ourselves”, are just preaching for the choir, and just sowing extra division in an already extremely divided world. You know that what you claim about the right may have some truth, but is far from the accepted position. And you also know there are equally bad claims about the left from the right, that also have some truth in them… I wish this was the last time i’d see this silly post here, but that’s wishful thinking i guess…”
You… are either a bot or a Republican
Ah yes, wanting honest discourse and a bit less divisive language obviously makes me either republican… or a bot… wow… now, not entire unexpected for a reaction if you dare speak up in an echochamber…
I would love though to hear your reasoning about why i possible couldn’t be a real human left wing :). This gonna be good :).
As do .ml and hexbear.
Excuse me for not seeing a credible difference between genocidal warmonger (blue) and genocidal warmonger (red)
But Putin attacking countries is fiiiiine. Ukraine and Western propaganda and all that.
firstly isn’t that whataboutism?
either way I’m opposed to inter-capitalist wars and despots like Putin.
In a discussion about the misrepresentation of political stances to further various agendas, it is not a whataboutism to point out a commonly held political hypocrisy.
I mean it is a misrepresentation of my political stance, plus the topic was warmongers running our government and they were like ‘what about russia’
If your primary concern had been its misrepresentation of your values, why didn’t you lead with that? The topic of .ml and hexbear was brought up as examples of people pushing the narrative in OP - hence why including a hypocrisy about the topic common in those communities is relevant.
A pretty common sentiment on hexbear is that Putin is someone Lenin would have shot. Opposing the war in ukraine as an inter-capitalist war is pretty common position as well. I don’t see the hypocrisy, just looks like someone attacking a made-up position
Excuse me for not seeing a credible difference between genocidal warmonger (blue) and genocidal warmonger (red)
Q. E. D.
Where’s the lie though
I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @[email protected] point of view here.
To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.
I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.
Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.
Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way.
This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.
Harm reduction is still important
Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.
voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility
No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.
If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike
completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.
their apathy is discouraging leftist unity
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
Harm reduction for whom
For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.
Voting is the bare minimum civic participation.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitt…
Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.
Its good that you are unaffected by the election results
I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women
You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do.
I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.
J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions
It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.
You couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years?
Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.
feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.
“Look how bad the other side is”
Doesn’t work when your side just fell asleep at the wheel and let the opposition take control. And that’s the charitable take. Your side decided it was more important to fund a genocide than combat all the scary things in the first list.
If you look around at what’s happening right now you’ll see this was a false choice. Trump was always going to give Bibi whatever he wanted.
So did Biden and Harris wasn’t going to be any different. Biden even went around Congress to make damn sure Bibi got exactly what he wanted and then some.
The progressive side of our politics still lives in the dem party and we have a better chance of getting our ideas out there in that party. Either by election like Mamdani or by appointment like Lina Khan.
To be clear I don’t think Lina Khan was a lefty. Still her tenure in the FCC was rather pro consumer and pushing back on big corporations. That would not happen at all in any rep admin.
It’s more about power than ideas. The problem with the establishment Dems is not that they have the wrong ideas but that they have been purchased by the oligarchs who get to win whether they get a D or an R.
What does this have to do with Biden giving Bibi exactly what he wanted?
The thread is about both-sides-sim. I pointed out a case in how its still helpful to vote as left as possible.
Yeah and left is not letting Bibi get a single thing, even if that means losing Israel as an ally and supporting a party that’s not a major one.
Taking a step back and having the revelation that your electoralism means definitive genocide no matter who’s in power should not be a reason to dig in and defend your electoralism. It should be reason to tear everything down.
Otherwise, youre taking the stance that Palestinians have a duty to allow themselves genocided to buy yourself time for more political waffling.
Weird how this is the conclusion you came to instead of figuring out that the “your side” you’re talking about isn’t our side and hasn’t been for a long time.
At least we’re not in the other car coming at us straight on.
do you even want healthcare, neoliberal community poster FoxtrotDeltaTango
