I know this will vary a lot, so hypothetically let’s say you currently WFH/work remotely at least 3 days a week. Your commute to work takes an hour max (door to door) each way. If you were given the choice of a 4 day week working onsite, or a 5 day week WFH (or as many days as you’d like) for the same pay, which would you choose?
WFH. Unless I also get paid for commute time. Then, still WFH. Fuck traffic. This way, I’m neither dealing with it nor contributing to it.
I can go to the store or get some cleaning done on my lunch break, and I don’t have to spend time driving to do it. Fuck traffic.
Same for me. Time spend getting to work is basically also work time, which is usually not paid.
For a “fun” experiment just calculate how many hours you are on the way to work every year:
daily_travel_minutes * days_on_site / 60
Divide this by 8 to see how many holidays you get by switching to a fully/mostly remote job.
Don’t just count the actual journey time either - you have to factor in any extra time needed to get ready, parking, getting to or from the train and bus station, and any delays or traffic. If google maps tells you your commute takes 30 mins, it’s taking you 45 at least.
Yes, I described that unprecisely. You basically have to calc the difference between a full remote day and an on site day.
4 days in the office = 5 days remote considering getting ready + commute + not being able to do life admin in your breaks + cost of fuel and food…
The 4 day work week should be standard anyway, remote or not.
I’m pretty good on commute time. It was a 5-10 minute drive or a 25-30 minute walk. I’ve stuck there for years because working for any of their competitors are in the area and I’d have to go straight to an hour each way minimum.
I wouldn’t mind going back in part time, if the hybrid office environment itself wasn’t so hostile to actually working, with sterile hot desks and everyone having loud overlapping conversations in their respective virtual meetings.
The commute time is kinda worse than work time, so the 4 days in the office are equal to 5 days WFH timewise. And I would still be missing out on benefits like cheaper lunch at home and wearing comfortable clothes, and not being tired all the time. On the other hand, I would always have 3 day weekends.
Yeah, count time getting ready and you’re easily wasting 1.5-2 hrs a day going to an office.
When we started wfh, most people picked up overtime and still spent the same amount of time devoted to work with a significant pay increase.
It’s a lot of time and effort everyone was just used to giving up for free. Why go back to it?
Especially since it’s 2023 and we’re still getting new COVID waves.
The time spent getting ready would be a big factor for me.
I work full time from home. Fridays almost never have any big meetings or important deadlines, so if you need to knock off early and beat the vacation traffic, it’s not a problem. And all the little things you usually reserve for a day off, like doctor’s or dentist’s appointments or a haircut, any of that can happen during the week without missing a beat. You don’t always need a 3 day weekend, but when you want one, you take one.
It’s the same for my partner. I don’t think he’s worked past 3pm on Fridays in the 7 months he’s been there. There’s just nothing going on.
WFH for 5 days will still result in less time spent doing dumb shit I don’t want to do than RTO for 4. That doesn’t even count the pomodoro breaks I take where in the office I can’t do anything but walk in circles but at home I can start laundry or prep for dinner.
That was the best part of WFH for me. I could start a brisket in the morning and baby it all day long.
I legit have a pork shoulder dry brining rn for tomorrow. I know an electric smoker isn’t quite the same as a proper charcoal offset rig but my setup means I can do bbq any day I want to
I don’t hate on electric smokers. Nothing wrong with convenience.
Full remote.
I actually like going into the office ~2x per week. But tell me I have to and bump it to 4 days, I’m out. I also do not want my colleagues forced on site. My current ~2x/week is as productive as it is because the other people going on site now are there voluntarily and for specific reasons.
I feel like we’re at the point where WFH workers can work from home for four days for more pay.
I mean workers feel like that, but employees and governments don’t seem to. And the propaganda against WFH is still going strong.
I’m just trying to do something small to change the cultural milieu so that folks don’t feel that work has to come with some sort of punishment attached to it. It’s nothing personal, I’m just being a pedant. Have a good one!
I’m sure the masses of work from home employees really love that dream and you’ll struggle to have anyone argue against this popular pipe dream. I’ll try to be devil’s advocate to challenge the Lemmy echo chamber.
I personally don’t deserve more pay because I get “more done” from home. I deserve more pay because I’ve improved over the last couple of years. My managers dont bug me any less because I’m WFH, in fact if anything I am able to slack off more because no one is constantly watching me which is great for my health but bad for my “maximum potential” (I don’t care about max potential because I’m paid to do a job and I can do that job on 60-80% effort).
Between tasks on a workday I can do my clothes washing, play a new quest in my game, go for a run or watch an episode of the lastest program I’m interested in. These are the things I would do on my “extra day off” anyway so why not do them while you’re working now?
I think you have it all wrong, if I went back into the office then I would demand more pay because it takes more of my time. If you want more pay and less time, put in less effort at home.
Maybe I’m an outlier because I’m one of the few people who are happy with their salary and not obsessed with earning more all the time.
I originally wanted to go back to the office because I’m a weirdly social person. Eventually my work told us to come in 3 days a week. They told us “it’s the best of both worlds!” That’s when I realized that hybrid is actually the worst of both worlds. I don’t get to have a consistent daily routine. I have to constantly lug all my equipment back and forth between work and home. I don’t get a dedicated desk. Everyone is coming in just to take virtual meetings from their desk all day, so it’s really loud. I would rather everyone be at work 5 days a week than three, because then we would all be there, so meetings would be in person again.
My manager rebelled against upper management and had us just come in one day a week, and honestly, I think that’s fine. We just don’t get hardly any work done that one day. But we are seeing each other’s faces, which is what upper management wants. They say it’s good for team building and collaboration, and I see the merits in that.
Half the team still doesn’t even do that. I mean, one member of the team lives 2000 miles away from the rest of us. One has a newborn baby. One has kids that she needs to pick up from school at 3 every day. Another guy has worked at the company for like 15 years and just refuses to come in because he knows they won’t fire him. Another guy is 2 months away from retiring, so what’s the point?
My sentiments exactly.
So, even if the company wanted you to come in 3 days a week, what was stopping you from commiting to the whole 5 days? I don’t think a company would say no if someone wished to go to the office even more often.
We’re doing hybrid too where I work, but I still go in 5 days a week, even if that means there are times (generally Monday and Friday) when there aren’t as many people around.
It wouldn’t have any benefit if I personally did come in 5 days a week. I would still need to lug my stuff around because I still wouldn’t have a permanent desk, as the company doesn’t have enough for everyone anymore and doesn’t allow anyone to have permanent desks. People would still be loud on calls, because just because I’m in the office 5 days a week doesn’t mean anyone else is.
If the company’s policy was to have everyone come in 5 days a week, these issues would be resolved. But of course they would need to add more desks first. They ripped out a whole floor of desks for some reason, but I’m not sure why.
5 days WFH hands down.
And it’s not even close. Been wfh since 2014. “Life changing” is an understatement.
I will never commute again, ever. I’d rather work four days a week in my pajama pants and one day pantsless (Casual Friday) than waste my time schlepping my brain through meatspace.
Oohh I might have to implement that pantsless Casual Friday policy.
I’ve been WFH full time since early covid, so WFH for sure. My commute wasn’t even bad, my office is less than 10 minutes away.
I’m not a social person so there is no upside to going into the office for me. Everything to do with my job must be communicated by email so it’s documented, so it’s just a waste of time if someone wants to chat in person or on the phone about it.
Plus I don’t have to wear pants.
The one downside is my dogs seem to have developed separation anxiety since I’m around all the time.
I feel really sad for all the doggos that were bought as lockdown puppies.
Not sure if you understood the question, you’d work just 4 says a week onsite (and in total). You’d have one extra day free.
…yes, and? I don’t want to work on site. My WFH schedule is flexible enough that I don’t need an “extra day free”. I don’t think it’s worth it. Working fewer days isn’t always better for everyone.
For me. 100% remote.
But I work more for objectives rather than gross time/days. If the project is falling behind I work extra to gain some safeguard. If the project is going well I work more relaxed.
I don’t mind working extra hours if I’m already saving a lot of time avoiding travelling to the client or going to the office, living in another place away from a city. Etc.
Not even a question for me: full remote or bust. The extra day off wouldn’t make up for all the time wasted just from the pageantry of going to and being at an office.
I am WFH full time now.
My commute was, at best, 30 minutes each way. Weather or traffic can easily drive up this time. So at least an hour a day. Being in the office 4 days/week = 4+ hours commuting and all the headaches of driving, parking expense, car expenses, etc. I was much less productive in the office so I think it actually hurts my work to be in the office.
I’d prefer to drop the commute and be more productive. My employer will get MORE than 8 hours of work with that arrangement.
Yeah I think it’s very easy to underestimate your commute if you only consider the journey time. Like you said, you also have to consider parking or getting to the bus/train, getting from the car/train/bus station to your actual office, any traffic or delays… and there’s the getting yourself ready time. It’s not uncommon for my partner to roll out of bed at 8.50 to start at 9am!
Front door of your place to desk in the office seems like a good measurement, right?
For a while my parking ramp was 3 blocks from my office. I appreciated the exercise but it took at least 10 minutes. So 30 minute drive plus 10 minute walk.
Significant expenses are also mostly ignored. Buying, powering and maintaining a vehicle is not cheap nor is parking in many places. Work clothes are not free.
I think it would be interesting to do a really detailed analysis of the differences between WFH and in office. There’s probably more we’re not covering.
Front door of your place to desk in the office seems like a good measurement, right?
If everything prior to you exiting your front door is identical between WFH and commuting, then yes. But if you spend more time getting ready to go into the office than you do for WFH, then I think you have to count that getting ready time as well.
Definitely. Before going into the office I’d shower, do my hair, put in contacts, put on a little bit of make up and wear clean and ironed work clothes. If I were working at home, having a bath or shower at some point in the day and wearing clean clothes is about it. Even if I decided to do my hair and make up, I’d probably do it in working hours between meetings - the time I would have wasted talking to co workers or staring out the window if I was in the office.
I work hybrid and had my car totalled by a dear not long before I landed my current role, and my wife’s a stay at home mom. We stopped looking for a car because my wife can either drop me off if she needs the car on one of my in-office days or she can walk with the kids. We save a good chunk of change by sharing one car!
Imagine if a vehicle actually cost the IRS mileage rate. Adds up VERY quickly.
I took WFH for higher pay in 2013. It makes sense because I’m more productive without the noise, uncomfortable lighting, interruptions and subpar hardware.
Not conidering going back to office unless things change A LOT
I need to go into the office to be productive. I don’t begrudge anyone that wants to work from home, I wish it worked for me, but it doesn’t. During the pandemic I was 100% work-from-home and got very little done. I actually asked my boss how long it would be until we could go back to the office. Donkey-brains chose that time to upgrade the office furniture and shampoo the carpets. It was another month until the office was open. I went back, and it was heaven. There were very few people there. I could sit at my desk, listen to my music, and do whatever I needed. Don’t ask me what the difference was. Maybe I just have an affinity for flickering fluorescent tubes.
Like you, I was just more productive in an environment that’s not my home. There were a few times when they allowed us back in the office and only 3 of us showed up. Big empty office with the feeling that I can work at my own pace yet couldn’t get too comfortable because it’s still a professional workspace, it was perfect.
I don’t want to go in to the office. The pay doesn’t include the extra commute time, plus getting dressed up slightly nicer.
I live alone. I don’t have kids. Home is fine.
The office is loud. Often the wrong temperature. I get interrupted a lot. I don’t get as much done on the tiny monitor they provide vs the big ass 4k ones I have home.
Some people are really not great at responding on slack though. If they could get on my level that would be nice.
