I serious want an alternative to US credit cards. Because it would mean the US cannot pressure foreign companies by having Visa and Mastercard cut them off. And JCB is not accepted everywhere in the EU.
There are debit cards like CB and girocard from individual countries, but those are often co branded with Visa or Mastercard.
And pressure individuals like ICC judges by blocking them from US payment networks
I’d be interested in the privacy aspect. Does anybody with more knowledge than me know more about that? Like… It traceable? Will the gov’t know ally purchases, vendors, etc.?
Under FAQ of the digital euro’s page
Q9. How private would the digital euro be?, that they want it to be equivalent to cash when it comes to privacy.The digital euro is designed to be able to function offline in a way that would offer users a cash-like level of privacy, both for sending money to other people and for making payments in shops. When paying offline, only the payer and the payee would know the personal transaction details of the payments made. Anti-money laundering checks would be carried out by the distributing payment service provider (PSP) during the funding and defunding process, just as it is the case with cash withdrawals and deposits today.
In the case of online transactions, the Eurosystem would not identify users making or receiving payments, thereby protecting their personal data, but PSPs would be able to identify users for the purpose of compliance with anti-money laundering rules.
I… am not entirely clear on the technical aspects of it, or if what they said can actually accomplish what they claim. However, it is a factor they are considering, however much you actually trust them aside.
I would be interested in an explainer, for sure, on how they actually accomplish any of this (assuming they deliver).
Sounds like what Taler is already trying to do. I would like that.
Imagine Digital Euro Wallets as bank accounts managed by ECB. Similar to Open Banking, ECB will design an API and will provide access by licensing PSPs. ECB will only use and save wallet identifiers, it will not log identity of wallet owners. PSPs will have to verify the identity of wallet owners - at minimum they need to check that wallet owners are EU citizens at the time when the wallet is created. PSPs of transaction sender and receiver will need to communicate, because they need to obtain sender’s and receiver’s wallet ID in order to initiate and verify the payment. Based on this, various scenarios are possible. The PSPs may keep wallet owner’s personal information. They may also exchange and log the personal information as part of a transaction. ECB will possibly require logging of some information as part of money laundering precautions and PSP that don’t do that won’t get a licence and API access.
Apart from that, PSPs may wish to log information that goes beyond what they are legally required to. No doubt there will be initially lot of terrible consumer-unfriendly PSPs, mainly banks. Visa, MasterCard vor PayPal may also join as PSPs. But provided that ECB’s logging requirements aren’t too strict, privacy friendly PSPs will appear at some point.
Does anyone know if “online” here means for purchases made in e.g. a web browser, or also at a POS terminal that happens to be connected to the internet?
Since when government doesn’t have access to your purchases? Gov has access to absolutely everything they want to know about you
Since when government doesn’t have access to your purchases?
How does the government know where I spend the amount of cash I withdrew from my account?
Serial numbers
Every ATM knows which bill has been distributed to which card holder. Said number is recorded again once it’s brought back to a bank - plus the account it’s deposited to.
Sure, you can’t trace each bill immediately, but as one doesn’t deposit or withdraw a single bill at a time, a large pile of data is created. And, with said pile: Patterns and connections. The rest is just Business Intelligence and Big Data Analysis. But, in the end and with sufficient data, one can determine each and every probable connection you might have had and each place you contacted for a transaction. Even those that do their very best to stay offline - everything hidden in the big data spiderweb data fields.
Anonymity is an illusion. It’s just a matter of time, effort and reason to look into one’s details. Don’t give them reason to suspect anything and they won’t use these tools…yet
as one doesn’t deposit or withdraw a single bill at a time, a large pile of data is created
That would actually create a much bigger data base
Anonymity is an illusion […] Don’t give them reason to suspect anything
“Trust me, bro, they totally control everything. So just be a good little drone and don’t dare to have actual thoughts.” Sure… 🤣
This chain is broken when money changes through different hands and never touches an ATM. Sure you can still have private detectives and co following your every move and check that, so yes you are right that we are never 100% anonymous but that is not the point. Governments should not be able to instantly see what i purchased with my money. They still should be able to prevent money laundering and other nefarious things that could be done.
I feel like it goes in a good direction, if they can deliver what they say they want. For me it sounds very similar to what Taler is already providing.
Do you have a source for that ludicrous statement?
Well since birds aren’t real and are actually government drones, there is your answer!!!11!11
Thats the point. We are entering the realm of the unknown. Too many people are way too eager to accept the belief they want to believe. Thats why I am asking for people who actually know more than me.
They can simply request it from bank or Visa / Mastercard
Which get this information from all banks through constant finger-print analysis run on every bill returning to them? 😂
Yeah, targeted ads are a thing for long time now. How do you think my bank adds pops up on reddit? Banks, Visa / Mastercard are selling your data to whoever so they can make more money so I’d rather have my Government have this data rather than private companies
As I’m still waiting to see those targeted ads I assumed people are idiots and blasting out their identity and interests all over the place…
PS: Also I was talking about actual finger printing. On the physical bills. To trace them through all the hands between me getting them from a bank and some bank getting them back. The finger printing involved in targeting a ads online is a completely different thing… and easier to avoid, too, as it can be done with a one time setup where IRL I would constantly need to remember to put on gloves.
And how did I blast my identity by having bank account? I don’t even use same email on reddit and my bank, yet I see my bank (very small regional bank) on reddit ads. People has to stop pretending they’re anonymous in internet, just because you’re government has some data access doesn’t mean you’re being worse off because current system has all your personal data on open market and on top of that they makes you pay hefty fee to even use it. So again I’d rather pay smaller fee and have my data be controlled by my Government than keep having Visa / Mastercard going wild west with it.
And VISA does know how exactly that I just spent 50€ cash on crack?
Of course they know, they owe the payment network, why wouldn’t they know how you use their gear?
Keyword is cash
Not directly a European government but the US government has a lot of control over Visa/Mastercard.
