• sem@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    111·
    23 hours ago

    Some tools like xev have Wayland equivalents like wev, but some don’t.

    I like Wayland overall but am sometimes presented with things that used to work in xorg and don’t work anymore in Wayland.

  • anyhow2503
    403·
    1 day ago

    Actually you can have xorg. There’s really not a lot of people left who really want it (the original developers least of all). Maybe you could even be the one to put in the insane effort required to make it not suck complete shit.

    • OwOarchist@pawb.socialEnglish
      246·
      1 day ago

      As far as I’m concerned, it already doesn’t suck.

      Maybe it sucks to develop around and maintain, but as a user? It’s working for me just fine.

      (And, being a stable release LTS kind of guy, I don’t tend to fuck with things that are currently working just fine.)

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
        223·
        1 day ago

        It does horrific things with memory and has decades of technical dept and backwards compatibility

        It isn’t great for the long term

        • Zos_Kia@jlai.lu
          185·
          1 day ago

          My config is close to 15 years old and I’ve never had any issue with it. What are those horrific things you speak of? How do they affect me? I have no intention to migrate away unless I’m forced by circumstance.

          • devfuuu
            111·
            1 day ago

            Clearly you never had multiple screens with different dpi values.

            • Zos_Kia@jlai.lu
              1·
              1 hour ago

              Actually I have ! When I started this setup all I had was a bunch of reclaimed screens and the specs were all over the place.

            • ExtremeUnicorn@feddit.org
              2·
              4 hours ago

              I personally never got that point, because when you multi-screen, wouldn’t you specifically want two of the same model anyway because of color correction, fps and such? I know you can calibrate two different displays, but that will only get you so far and they’ll never look/feel the same.

              I am sure there are use-cases for this, but how common is it that somebody needs this feature?

              What’s much more common imo is connecting a laptop to two entirely different displays and mirroring the output and I had huge issues with Wayland in the past where it would just show half of the screen on either one, depending on resolution. Not sure if I did something wrong, but had to switch to X11 to make it work.

              • flying_sheep@lemmy.ml
                1·
                4 hours ago

                That’s the thing: you shouldn’t need to get identical monitors for technical reasons. And Wayland is much closer to that goal.

          • Zwiebel@feddit.orgEnglish
            141·
            1 day ago

            Presumably because some poor sods have been fighting to keep it going for you all this time? Do you think it just magically keeps working on it’s own without someone maintaining it?

            • Zos_Kia@jlai.lu
              1·
              1 hour ago

              I’m not sure what you mean by this. Yes I am aware that an open source project needs developers.

      • anyhow2503
        172·
        1 day ago

        It sucks to maintain so much that almost no one wants to do it. The amount of technical suckage within xorg really cannot be overstated. It sucks in a lot of “consumer-facing” ways too, but we’ve had decades to learn to live with all of the quirks and hacky workarounds. Now that wayland compositors are in a usable state, people are beginning to notice the missing features as well (like HDR for example).

        It’s your setup and if it works then that’s fine. I just can’t help commenting on these kinds of posts where the OP shares their thinly disguised opinion as a “shitpost” because they get downvoted when they do so in an unironic way.

      • Tanoh
        34·
        1 day ago

        There is also Xlibre to modernize it and get rid of old cruft. It is still early stages though, so who knows if it will succeed or become abandoned, etc.

        • toothbrush@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          15·
          1 day ago

          I personally have no faith in Xlibre, its developer(s?) seem inexperienced and their contributions to x11 codebase are of low quality

          Thankfully there are other projects around keeping x11 alive:

          theres xwayland-satellite, which implements more of x11 in wayland so you can basically run an x11 session with wayland support.

          And than there is phoenix, which is a new implementation of x11. Supposedly it shall have none of the legacy garbage code that makes x11 so hard to maintain.

          • Tanoh
            1·
            10 hours ago

            I have no idea about xlibre, never used it just saw that it exists. It sounds like it will likely fail. Phoenix looks more promising, but haven’t used that either. And very much I doubt use anything until Debian offers it as a drop in replacement.

            In general X is battle tested over decades and while there are oddities and warts, but throwing it all away for a whole new set of the same is not going to go smoothly. Which can be seen by the very slow adoptation of wayland.

            But if people like it then they should use it, I just vastly prefer X still. Whenever I try Wayland it feels like a WIP and not nearly ready yet.

          • mittorn@masturbated.one
            5·
            21 hours ago

            @toothbrush @Tanoh
            >xwayland-satellite
            does not implement anything, just glues xwayland to session
            phoenix and yserver might be good Xwayland alternative, not Xorg/xf86, because Xorg is mostly about DDX drivers and it’s only way to use 2d acceleration on old hardware (which is deprecated, but still might be useful)

        • hexagonwin@lemmy.today
          10·
          23 hours ago

          i hope somebody keeps X alive but xlibre i don’t think would last long. even ignoring the weird antivax conspiracy spamming on LKML, the lead dev confused ^ in C as exponential…

  • HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org
    172·
    1 day ago

    I made a serious effort to switch to Wayland, which involved ~3000 lines of code to hammer the experiences I like in fvwm3 into labwc and it still feels imperfect (X11 has too many clipboards, but Wayland has too few)

    There are some minor more-smooth experiences (games don’t microstutter when I change audio tracks) but the steak isn’t really worth the sizzle.

    • hexagonwin@lemmy.today
      4·
      23 hours ago

      is your wayland config(?) available somewhere? i also use fvwm3 and want to try wayland, tried KDE6 but it really doesn’t fit me.

    • SnailMagnitude@mander.xyzOPEnglish
      27·
      22 hours ago

      Yeah, it’s the younglings trying raise money to get Gabe a better yacht afaiu.

      BTW’ing I think they call it.

      • anyhow2503
        91·
        20 hours ago

        I’ve seen your comments. I get it, you hate video games, young people and Gabe Newell. Do you need to bring it up at any opportunity? How do you even connect this to the wayland vs. Xorg disussion?

        BTW’ing I think they call it.

        How out of touch can you get?

        • juipeltje
          5·
          18 hours ago

          I don’t know why this is a thing, but i’ve seen it before where people claim wayland is only good for gamers, and since gamers are cringe to them they don’t like it lol. It’s funny to me considering wayland had forced vsync for the longest time and they refused to change it.

        • SnailMagnitude@mander.xyzOPEnglish
          11·
          17 hours ago

          I don’t hate computer games or young people, I’ve had both for ages.

          I’m not a big fan of Valve, or the billionaire running the app store from his mega yachts.

          BTW’ing seems relevant. It’s an ecosystem that’s been largely focused on turning a gnu/linux workstation into an x86_64 Steam player for over a decade and now Valve are using BTW as $UPSTREAM. It’s what this kinda thing evolved into as actually compiling stuff was harder than copy and pasting ''yaourt eyebleach-kitchen-sink-bin steam" https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html

          Ask a question on X11 in the world of BSD, Debian, RHEL, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, Gentoo, Alpine, Rocky, MX or in the nerd mines of Phoronix, Linux Questions or Stack Exchange and people will help that have knowledge, ask in BTW lands and there will be witch hunt by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

          If X11 goes down it would be like Mad Max: International banking and airports screens would just go black, Moscow, Pyongyang and Beijing too…even more important stuff like adverts could stop working at scale.

          • anyhow2503
            2·
            5 hours ago

            I don’t hate computer games or young people, I’ve had both for ages.

            I’m not a big fan of Valve, or the billionaire running the app store from his mega yachts.

            I’m sorry, but that’s not how you come across, at least to me. I can understand not liking Gabe and I can even understand not liking Valve, but your complaints about their incluence on the Linux ecosystem seem entirely unwarranted.

            BTW’ing seems relevant. It’s an ecosystem that’s been largely focused on turning a gnu/linux workstation into an x86_64 Steam player for over a decade and now Valve are using BTW as $UPSTREAM. It’s what this kinda thing evolved into as actually compiling stuff was harder than copy and pasting ''yaourt eyebleach-kitchen-sink-bin steam" https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html

            I’m sure speaking in riddles doesn’t help, but I think I understand what you’re saying. Valves decision to use Arch as an upstream distro makes complete sense to me. They would want pick and choose from reasonably up-to-date packages, roll their own kernel and make use of some of the community effort to facilitate gaming on Linux.

            Ask a question on X11 in the world of BSD, Debian, RHEL, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, Gentoo, Alpine, Rocky, MX or in the nerd mines of Phoronix, Linux Questions or Stack Exchange and people will help that have knowledge, ask in BTW lands and there will be witch hunt by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

            The wave of popularity for Arch got memed into existence a while ago. Long before wayland was even a viable alternative. Of course the communities suffered some collateral damage in the form of noobs, but that’s not a new thing either. Most mainstream distros have had these kinds of issues for a long time. You’re not going to be able to blame Valve for that. Phoronix is a poor example imho, that site has always been full of idiots and not moderating the forums has opened the gates for all kinds of lunatics. Ever read the forums under a piece of news about Rust? It’s a lot of very opionionated idiots who know extremely little about programming. What about the arch forums? They’ve been reasonably helpful and knowledgeable for the longest time, yet they are part of “BTWland”, no?

            If X11 goes down it would be like Mad Max: International banking and airports screens would just go black, Moscow, Pyongyang and Beijing too…even more important stuff like adverts could stop working at scale.

            I’m not impressed by the technology choices of businesses and public infrastructure. Most of it uses Windows anyway for some godforsaken reason. I know you’re being dramatic, but even if X was just yanked out of existence, for the purposes of digital signage or other such extremely basic computing tasks it really shouldn’t be such an issue to switch to something else. Most issues would probably crop up on Linux workstations, running a bunch of software through XWayland. The vast majority of Linux computers however, don’t need a display server.