As a non-american, can someone post the content of these amendments?
Summaries from Wikipedia:
13
Abolishes slavery, and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime
14
Defines citizenship, contains the Privileges or Immunities Clause, the Due Process Clause, and the Equal Protection Clause, and deals with post–Civil War issues
15
Prohibits the denial of the right to vote based on race, color or previous condition of servitude
Removed by mod
It’s being used exactly as intended.
It was abused until FDR ended slavery during World War 2 by signing Biddle’s Circular 3591 on 12/12/1941. Which is why he was the best president
I believe their point was that it is still being abused by the prison systems.
Lots of questionable laws get passed. Lots of people get sent to prison for long sentences. When in prison they are being forced to work for virtually nothing. When they get paid at all it is usually 5% or less of minimum wage. If they don’t work they receive various punishments including solitary confinement. In short, slavery is still going strong, just with a legal justification.
I don’t think it is correct to say prison work is slavery. It’s certainly very similar, in the same way that sweatshop labor is like slavery, but it’s in its own distinct brand of fucked-up power dynamics.
But I’m also the kind of person who gets upset when you say a rabbit or ferret is a rodent, so I will concede that this is splitting hairs
I don’t think it is correct to say prison work is slavery.
I wouldn’t usually call it that either, but I don’t think it is that far of a stretch to understand those who do see it that way.
I’m not sure a sweatshop is a fair comparison since I have never heard that they imprison their “employees” between shifts, or throw them in small rooms if they aren’t will to work anymore.
To expand for a non-American who still may not understand the context:
The 13th amendment abolishes slavery in the US, where slavery at the time (prior to 1865) was based on the notion in the southern states that you could and should be owned as a slave if you were black. That included lifelong servitude of you and your children, any punishment deemed appropriate including severe physical punishments, and murder without consequence. Even if you were a free black man, and not shipped in from Africa like the majority of slaves, you could be captured by police and auctioned to someone to work on their plantation.
The 14th amendment establishes primarily that all persons in the US are equal regardless of the color of their skin. The bloodiest war in US history (Civil War, 1861-1865) was fought over the right for the southern states to declare it legal to own slaves, vs the northern states wanting slavery abolished federally. These amendments were ratified after the north won. Even after the war, it took another hundred years before Americans as a whole saw non-white people as equal. This and the next amendment were very much necessary to protect the newly found rights of former slaves.
The 15th, at least, is self explanatory.
The point of this meme is literally positing that it’s ok to make black people slaves again if other parts of the constitution can change, because they’re pretty boldly racist. There’s not much else to it.
it took another hundred years before Americans as a whole saw non-white people as equal
We’ve probably got the majority at this point, but this view is definitely not universal among US citizens. I grew up in a place where lots of folks would casually disagree with this notion.
I just read the 13th amendment for the first time and one thing is unclear. Is it slavery or involuntary servitude that is allowed as punishment (or both?).
Because forced labor as a punishment to repay society seems morally ok (to me) whereas slavery (and thus, ownership of people) still seems wrong even as a punishment
Forced labor and slavery aren’t really different in the context of the state owning people. That’s why it’s phrased like that in the constitution. Once you are found guilty of a crime in the US, you lose many of your rights and are considered a prisoner of the state or federal government.
It’s actually a hot topic in the US anyway, because the government very often assigns its prisoners it privately owned, for-profit prisons, where those prisoners labor for pennies and have no choice. Here’s an example for you.
Is it involuntary servitude or slavery when the state hands you off to a private prison to make them money?
Couple that with the fact that the US coincidentally has the highest incarceration rate in the world (not crime, just the act of putting people in prison) and the fact that private prisons very often sign contracts with the states for a minimum number of prisoners a year, and you can see that it might be argued that private prisons collaborate with the government as an institutional system to keep certain Americans in prisons.
And then there’s the fact that poor and non-white people are disproportionately preyed on by police, maybe you could say that modern day slavery still exists.
Involuntary servitude might be morally ok, but there’s still a line where it crosses into slavery and we’ve been on the slavery side for a long time now.
After a quick Google search I think they are:
13th: No slavery except as punishment for crime
14th: Everyone born in the USA is granted citizenship (also for former slaves)
15th: Everyone has the right to vote
Wait, then, slavery is still legal???
Yes, and regularly practiced in US prisons.
Indeed, according to this article (emphasis mine):
Incarcerated workers generate billions of dollars worth of goods and services annually but are paid pennies per hour without proper training or opportunity to build skills for careers after release, according to a comprehensive nationwide report released by the University of Chicago Law School’s Global Human Rights Clinic and the American Civil Liberties Union.
The first-of-its-kind report, Captive Labor: Exploitation of Incarcerated Workers, examines the use of prison labor throughout the U.S. and highlights how incarcerated workers’s labor helps maintain prisons and provides vital public services.
[…]
Key findings include:
- Nearly two-thirds (65% percent) of incarcerated people report working behind bars—amounting to roughly 800,000 workers incarcerated in prisons.
- More than three quarters of incarcerated people surveyed (76%) report facing punishment—such as solitary confinement, denial of sentence reductions, or loss of family visitation—if they decline to work.
- Prison laborers are at the mercy of their employers. They have no control over their work assignments, are excluded from minimum wage and overtime protections, are unable to unionize, do not receive adequate training and equipment, and are denied workplace safety guarantees despite often dangerous working conditions.
- As a result, 64% of incarcerated workers surveyed report worrying about their safety while working; 70% percent say they received no formal job training; and 70% percent report not being able to afford basic necessities like soap and phone calls with prison labor wages.
- Incarcerated workers produce at least $2 billion in goods and $9 billion worth of prison maintenance services annually, but this number is not closely tracked and is likely much higher.
- Yet, most states pay incarcerated workers pennies per hour for their work. Seven states (Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Texas) pay nothing for the vast majority of prison work. Other states pay on average between 15 and 52 cents per hour for non-industry jobs. Prison laborers often see up to 80% of their paycheck withheld for taxes, “room and board” expenses, and court costs.
- More than 80% percent of prison laborers do general prison maintenance, which subsidizes the cost of our bloated prison system. Other tasks represent less than 10% percent of work assignments, including: public works projects (like road repair, natural disaster assistance, forestry work, and maintenance of parks, schools, and government offices); state prison industries, agricultural work, and coveted private company work assignments.
It is also worth noting that:
And that black people are five (5) times as likely to end up in jail.
John Olivier and his staff did a great piece on it.
But isn’t slavery the use of people to preform labor? I don’t think they do that anymore.
Ten seconds with your search engine of choice would correct what you think.
Forced/coerced un/underpaid labor of prisoners is disgustingly common, depending on the state.
expired
always has been
From Constitution US
The 13th Amendment is about the abolition of slavery. The promise that slavery, or “involuntary servitude,” would exist no longer within the United States. The exception here is on the conviction of a crime. This amendment was ratified on December 6, 1865.
The 14th Amendment is the assertion that all those born or naturalized within the United States are citizens of the United States. Furthermore, the promise that no state will enforce any law that will damage these privileges in any way. This is also known as the Equal Protection Clause and was ratified on July 9, 1868.
The 15th Amendment stipulates that any citizen of the United States has the right to vote, regardless of their race and color of their skin. This constitutional amendment also mentions those with a “previous condition of servitude,” which grants the right to former slaves. It was ratified on February 3, 1870.
Essentially, these three amendments were passed after the South got their shit kicked in in the Civil War and guarantee that the US government can not be discriminate against someone based on race
I mean yeah, theoretically. Do you think any of the politicians anyone votes for would support something so blatantly evil?
I genuinely can’t tell if this is a rhetorical question or not.
It should be, but unfortunately the answer is yes. Don’t forget to vote, even in non-presidential election years.
Actually, especially in the off years. Fewer people vote, so yours has more of an impact, and also the EC doesn’t screw you over
The Right murdering “Benefit of the Doubt” in its sleep again? Must be a day during one of the first 12 months of the year.
This looks like a red (republican) accusing a blue (democrat) of wanting to abolish those amendments.
As ridiculous as most people would find it, there are a lot of Republicans that view Democrats as the party of slavery and racism, both in the past and currently. The current focus on race-based equity instead of equality just emphasizes it in their minds.
I think it might be a political compass meme.
So by that metric, blue is authoritarian right and red is authoritarian left. Not sure if that ideologically matches up on this meme and I don’t want to dust off the meme tablets to dig any deeper on the research.
there are a lot of Republicans that view Democrats as the party of slavery and racism
No, they don’t actually genuinely believe that, they’re just muddying the waters to steer the conversation away from racism in 2023.
You sound awfully sure of yourself. Have anything to back it up?
I am not surprised you don’t agree with their beliefs, but saying definitively that those beliefs don’t exist surely comes with more than: Haha! I know how that could be wrong!
If you were talking about politicians and not the party members, I might even find it to be a plausible statement.
Sure, say to those people, “Look, the racist Dems have created a huge racial wealth gap between white and black families, let’s OWN the racist Dems by creating and supporting policies that help the most impoverished black families and close the wealth gap.”
All of the sudden they won’t care about racism, they’ll care about “it’s because of black culture”, “thugs”, “black on black violence”, “welfare queens”, “absent father”, “well that’s racist against white people”.
But yeah, if you find me one Republican that’s like, “yeah, let’s own the racist Dems by lifting impoverished black families and decreasing the racial wealth gap”, that’s a Republican I was wrong about.
To quote my original post:
The current focus on race-based equity instead of equality just emphasizes it in their minds.
I’m having a bit of trouble following your logic. Is this an accurate summary?
To prove that some of them think you are the racist for treating people of one skin color differently than others, they have to pass laws that specifically benefit people of that skin color, despite the fact that they think such behavior is inherently racist.
To prove that some of them think you are the racist for treating people of one skin color differently than others
Bingo, this is the part where those same people say that Dems are racist against white people.
Schrodinger’s Democrats: simultaneously racist against black people and against white people.
There’s no coherent logical story, because it’s not supposed to make sense, it’s supposed to muddy the waters.
Thank you for clarifying. That definitely gives me a better understanding of your view.
Never forget that if someone is lying, it’s because they expect someone else to believe them. There would be no point to trying to fool the Republican rank-and-file if a majority of them weren’t fools.
That said, there could be a significant amount of self-foolery going on.
Fuck the republican traitor filth.
