A few years ago we were able to upgrade everything (OS and Apps) using a single command. I remember this was something we boasted about when talking to Windows and Mac fans. It was such an amazing feature. Something that users of proprietary systems hadn’t even heard about. We had this on desktops before things like Apple’s App Store and Play Store were a thing.

We can no longer do that thanks to Flatpaks and Snaps as well as AppImages.

Recently i upgraded my Fedora system. I few days later i found out i was runnig some older apps since they were Flatpaks (i had completely forgotten how I installed bitwarden for instance.)

Do you miss the old system too?

Is it possible to bring back that experience? A unified, reliable CLI solution to make sure EVERYTHING is up to date?

    • @MajorHavoc
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      309 months ago

      Nice. Your excellent suggestion probably belongs in a meta-package somewhere so that users get it for free when appropriate.

    • bitteorca
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      309 months ago

      Since they’re using Fedora apt isn’t going to do anything, they would need to run sudo dnf upgrade -y && flatpak update

    • fmstrat
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      49 months ago

      If you’re an Obtainium/install from GitHub fan, then don’t forget gam update.

  • @[email protected]
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    1039 months ago

    There has always been the option of installing software from source. The package manager won’t update anything installed from source.

    You don’t have to use Flatpak, Snap or AppImage if you don’t want to. If you use the package manager to install everything, it will update everything.

      • El Barto
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        789 months ago

        The solution is to use any of the other hundreds of readily available distributions.

        • @[email protected]
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          29 months ago

          Exactly. I dont have flatpak or snap integration installed so packages are packages. I think it was Ubuntu being delivered with snap as part of the OS. As well as CLI ads.

      • @killeronthecorner
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        69 months ago

        I’m confused by this. If I run apt install, am I getting stuff from flatpak?

        • @ItsDedo
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          149 months ago

          Yes and no, you’re getting stuff form Snap, not flatpak

            • @ItsDedo
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              89 months ago

              Yep, that’s why some people are so upset about it. I guess there’s a config to disable it but I wouldn’t know, I use Arch btw

        • @[email protected]
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          19 months ago

          You have to check your distros info, but from popular Linux podcasts they were claiming certain distros used the apt get but once the package manager saw what you want it would throw in a snap or flatpak of the same. Not all distros. I think Ubuntu was one.

    • mFatOP
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      149 months ago

      If I use ubuntu I’m somehow forced to use them.

      Even on Fedora the average user is presented with many flatpak results when they use the GUI software manager. Not everyone is technically adept enough to check the origin of the app. So it’s kind of being forced on users.

      • Adel Khial
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        9 months ago

        If you use the Fedora software manager it updates everything at once? It even updates BIOS firmware.

      • Ulu-Mulu-no-die
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        9 months ago

        If I use ubuntu I’m somehow forced to use them.

        Yes, that’s why I stopped using it years ago (among other reasons).

        Users are not out of options, they don’t need to check the origin of the apps themselves, it’s enough to ask other users what distros don’t do the things they don’t like and use those.

    • @REdOG
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      119 months ago

      The package manager won’t update anything installed from source.

      emerge lols

  • @[email protected]
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    639 months ago

    In Mint you can install flatpaks from the software manager and those get updated by the update manager. So it’s all still one click.

    • @TheGrandNagus
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      229 months ago

      Same on Fedora. It’ll even do firmware too.

      We’re nowhere near the absolute shitshow that is updating the system and and programs on windows.

      • @[email protected]
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        19 months ago

        The individual pop up for upgrades on windows is probably the single biggest bother… (except the Microsoft bloatware/spyware of course)

    • Fonzie!
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      19 months ago

      I’d like to add that it’s even better than that!
      You can install apt, flathub and snap (if you want to install it) packages from the same installer, complete with full package info, screenshots and reviews!
      You can even compare them by switching quickly via the drop-down!

      The updater also checks all three, allowing you to scrutinise every part you want, or just updating it all with one button!

      The installer and updater are actually better than using the command line, in my opinion, and I am by no means a stranger to the command line!

  • Jannis
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    549 months ago

    If you use a graphical tool like gnome software, it will update everything with one click on a button

    • @[email protected]
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      59 months ago

      I would really love gnome software to add update on background feature and set update interval (update only once a month, hold update indefinitely etc.)

      But fedora software center behavior is the most intuitive and easy compare to other popular desktop OS/distros: Mac, Windows, or Ubuntu.

        • @[email protected]
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          9 months ago

          I think it only downloads the update but you still need to click install to install it. I am looking for Google Play / Windows Store behavior, where the store juat keep my app up-to-date in the background, maybe push a notification after update is done or something.

          I understand this behavior is not for everyone, but I think it should be a toggle at least.

      • @[email protected]
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        49 months ago

        I love and use Fedora but I still think Mints update manager is the best GUI implementation I ever used for updating, it has all the essentials, is easy to use and looks nice.

        • @[email protected]
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          9 months ago

          I have never used mint, so I dont know.

          One of the thing that drived me from Ubuntu to Fedora is that Ubuntu has 3 different UI for system, apt, and snap/flatpak update. It feels really segmented.

          I personally prefer Gnome experience more than any other DE (including windows and macOS). But mint only include Gnome version on Ubuntu LTS, so it is a bit dated. But no doubt that mint is extremely user friendly.

          • @[email protected]
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            29 months ago

            I prefer vanilla Gnome on Fedora too but Mint dose some things really well. Their update manager is nice but that’s a Debian tool, their file manager (Nemo) on the other hand is something I still use, I just prefer it to Nautilus.

            • @[email protected]
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              9 months ago

              I like that the Mint UI show you that you are in sudo in a graphical app. It is really neat.

              IIRC, if you do a file operation in Nemo that require sudo, then the file manager can directly ask you the password and lift itself to sudo, without needing to go into terminal. It is also pretty convenient.

  • Endorkend
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    439 months ago

    Don’t generalize whatever distro you’re running as “Linux”, especially when we’re talking package management.

    • mFatOP
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      -99 months ago

      Isn’t this the case with all major distros at least?

      • @[email protected]
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        9 months ago

        As far as I know, Ubuntu is unique in its insistence on snaps. I can’t really speak for any others but my system runs fine entirely on native or locally compiled packages known to my package manager.

  • @[email protected]
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    409 months ago

    I’ve used Linux since the 90s and I’ve never installed a flat pack or snap or whatever. They’re not required.

    • genuineparts
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      9 months ago

      This. And it usually is open source, if you don’t want to install a flatpak or docker image, you can always compile it yourself, and if you feel generous, you package it up as an .rpm, .dep, or whatever your distro of choice wants and create a download for it. I also have not (yet) encountered a project i wanted to install that didn’t either provide packages or at the very least detailed instructions if I want to just install that locally.

    • @[email protected]
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      -29 months ago

      I mean yeah. I mean wtf.

      I mean, if I install something compiling from source, I would not expect anyone else to manage it, right? I mean why would anyone expect that flatpak snap etc. all get managed automatically, they even forget how they installed something, it is so ridiculous.

  • @NakedGardenGnome
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    389 months ago

    Well, doesn’t that depend on your package manager? With pacman I can add a custom hook after install to update all flatpaks. I’m sure it could also be done for all snaps and AppImages if I would use any of those.

    Isn’t there a similar hooking mechanism in apt or yum?

    • mFatOP
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      -49 months ago

      Even if there are workarounds the old approach was superior.

      • @[email protected]
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        9 months ago

        For the average user, software updates should be seamless and require no interaction whatsoever. Fedora Silverblue does this fairly well, whether they are flatpak or system updates.

        Flatpaks offer many benefits that, in my opinion, offset their potential inconveniences.

  • Limitless_screaming
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    9 months ago

    alias update='sudo pacman -Syu && flatpak update' or just use one of the trillion GUI app stores like pamac, discover, or gnome’s thing whatever they call it.

    • ISometimesAdmin
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      19 months ago

      Right? Like, c’mon OP, this is a really silly mountain to make out of the tiniest molehill.

      • Limitless_screaming
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        19 months ago

        I really hate the “we had it better before ${X} technology replaced ${Y}”; it almost never works in the Linux landscape.

        It’s most likely a one liner to fix the issue you’re having, and if it isn’t, then you can replace the problematic part of your system with whatever suites you.

        You don’t like Flatpaks? remove all of them and use packages from your distro’s repos. Don’t like GNU-utils? use Busybox. Don’t like systemd? use Artix, Gentoo, or rip systemd out of your OS like a real man.

    • @[email protected]
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      9 months ago

      What you suggest works for Arch distros only of course. Actually, yay -Syu will do the pacman stuff for you first anyway so you can skip that.

      If you are using EndevourOS, check out eos-update. I just discovered it. It is basically the same thing but it will automatically handle keyring updates and db.lck issues if you have ever run into those. Basically, it is what yay should be.

      Another EndevourOS gem is eos-shifttime. It will set your system to whatever pacman would have done on a specific date. You can use it to roll-back to a specific date. Or, if it has been forever since you upgraded, it lets you upgrade more incrementally than catching up all at once. Pretty cool. I guess you could also mimic the Manjaro experience by always upgrading to whatever was in the Arch repositories 3 weeks ago.

      • @[email protected]
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        19 months ago

        Of course those commands only work for arch-based distros, but it is completely possible to adapt them to fedora or debian-based distros

        • voxel
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          9 months ago

          snaps are terribly, terribly slow, especially if you still have a mechanical drive.

  • @[email protected]
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    349 months ago

    IMHO the killer feature of linux is that you aren’t getting shit straight into your mouth every day by some corporation that decices to squeeze more cash money out of you.

    And as others have pointed out most gui applications update all sources automatically.

  • darq
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    329 months ago

    I can’t really relate? At least on my desktop. The software manager integrates with Flatpaks and upgrades them at the same time.

    For most apps I’m going to prefer the usual way of doing things. But there are some apps that I actually kinda prefer as Flatpaks. Like Calibre I’m happy to install as a Flatpak. The updates are faster and it doesn’t add a whole host of dependencies that only it uses to my system.

    • mFatOP
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      -29 months ago

      There was a time when using the update button of Software Center was exactly equal to running “sup apt dist-upgrade”. Everything was simple and straightforward.

      • @[email protected]
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        169 months ago

        And broke all the time, and was a nightmare for devs to create and maintain packages for multiple distros, and was hard to find packages outside the official repos, and could create a package version hell, and had only a very rudimentary permission system.

        Change is sometimes not a bad thing, you know?!

      • @severien
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        109 months ago

        Everything was simple and straightforward except for updating an app after new release before the distro maintainers updated it in repos (which often took months).

  • @[email protected]
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    319 months ago

    Depends. Unless you’re on Ubuntu or Elementary, Flatpak and Snap are optional. When I’m on Arch, btw, I don’t bother with any of those and just use the AUR with a helper like yay.

    But I find the convenience of Flathub too good to pass up on other distros. I have been using Linux long enough to remember when the only options if your distro didn’t ship something were to compile from source or to use a sketchy installer script, because Flatpak didn’t exist. And as others mentioned, if you’re using a full desktop environment, it likely can update everything at once via the GUI.

    • lemmyvore
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      39 months ago

      I don’t bother with any of those and just use the AUR with a helper like yay.

      Normally I do that too but recently wanted to install an app from AUR that ran out of memory during compile on 4 GB of RAM. So being able to use an appimage or flatpak was still useful.

        • lemmyvore
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          39 months ago

          And I would die of old age waiting for the compile to finish.

          Swap is not “disk RAM”. It’s used for storing pages that go unused for extended periods of time. It’s an optimization system designed to be used during normal system operations.

          Technically it could solve some mild out-of-memory situations if given enough time but in practice the disk access is so slow compared to RAM that for all intents and purposes your system appears to freeze so you get bored eventually and reboot it. An attempt to compile a large application under these circumstances would last a very long time indeed.

          If anything, you should disable swap in such a situation. Without swap the compile process would crash instantly when growing out of memory, with swap your system freezes.

          Swap space is also used for storing a compressed dump of RAM during hybernation but that’s a special case.

          • @[email protected]
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            19 months ago

            There are lots of options. You can also setup a swap file in memory that uses compression. Since swap tends to compress really well, you can allocate more memory than you have RAM and still not use slower swap on a HDD or SSD.

          • @[email protected]
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            19 months ago

            Yeah, I know how swap works. I’m lazy and it would accomplish the task if needed, I’ve done it many times before in similar situations especially on low RAM Gentoo machines.

            Agreed, it’s slow as fuck. It also gets the job done without going outside the package manager.

  • @[email protected]
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    279 months ago
    #! /bin/sh
    #update_everything_in_one_command.sh
    set -e
    apt update
    apt upgrade -y
    flatpak update -y
    

    $ sudo update_everything_in_one_command

    Tada!

  • pizzaboi
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    269 months ago

    You’re using Linux. It took me about an hour to create a script that will upgrade all packages, Snaps, and flatpaks, complete with flavor text. The fact that I could do that, with total control over how and when to run those updates, is still a killer feature to me.