Italy’s far-right prime minister has said she will not allow the country to become “Europe’s refugee camp”, after thousands of people seeking refuge landed on its shores, prompting France to tighten controls at its border with Italy.
Giorgia Meloni told the UN general assembly in New York that the huge numbers arriving in Lampedusa, a tiny Sicilian island that for years has been the first port of call for people crossing a perilous stretch of the Mediterranean Sea from north Africa, had placed Italy “under incredible pressure”.
NIMBY at its finest. I’m not saying to take everyone no matter what, but helping eachothers is how we thrive as a species. We’re better than this.
We’re trying to help a tiny group of oligarchs, not each other. “We” are not better than this, socialist states are.
We are the dominant species on earth. Why do you think we would have problems thriving? Every country has a right to defend it’s borders from anyone.
Allowing undocumented refugees has nothing to do with thriving or surviving by any means.
I agree it’s nimbyism but it’s more nuanced than you posit here.
🥱
long time member of Italian fascist party is still a fascist, more in at 5
It’s just irresponsible / dishonest for journalists to call her anything other than what she is: a fascist. It is a well-documented fact and something we need to be completely honest about.
It hits too close to home, she’s aligned with the west on everything that matters, Ukraine etc, none too coincidentally enough.
Historically, didn’t fascism begun in Italy?
Ok we got the fascist thing out -first rule of Lemmy politics: identify the fascist. Now what? The comments are so fucking repetitive. It’s like an AI is writing everything here.
I’ll be honest, i really do get that it’s repetitive seeing people reply to every Meloni-related post with basically the same message, but the fact is that it simply needs to be said. People can’t ignore how irresponsible the reporting on fascism in Italy is, because if we do, that just allows them to keep moving the Overton window towards apathy, and apathy is a dangerous thing in this context.
I live in Italy. The anti meloni crowd-we’re aware of the fascist connection. It’s the pro meloni crowd that won’t be swayed by this rhetoric. So the question is: now what?
Organize with your local anti-fascists. Unfortunately, some people will never be swayed.
Sorry it bothers you people call out fascism.
Something tells me you don’t care about repetitive comments when they’re something you want to hear.
I don’t want repetitive comments about stuff I like either. It’s…repetitive.
Europe created the problems they refuse to fix, no surprise there, it’s an old European tradition to screw over other peoples countries
pretty sure the US is at fault here
How did Europe create the problem? I don’t think you can just blame their border-drawing past for all of today’s issues.
Bombed Gaddafi out of power, leaving power vacuum and destruction that has transformed a once stable country into a failed state riled by civil war after civil since. This was just a bit over ten years ago. I’m saying this while being no fan of Gaddafi.
The man had literal rape rooms in his palace, but that doesn’t mean you bomb the shit out of the country and just hope it works itself out.
Or if you do, don’t complain about the refugees…
Especially when you’re fuckin Italy and it was one of your colonies.
your fascist fucking grandpa is literally Mussolini
That’s not Meloni, I think you might be confusing her with Alessandra Mussolini. Even then, I don’t think it’s fair to hold people accountable for the actions of their ancestors, even when said ancestors are dictators such as “literally Mussolini”.
and it’s one of his old colonies
If anything what made the country so destabilized, ultimately leading to Gaddafi’s rise, was the “liberation” (read as neocolonialism) brought by the British. A similar fate happened to all the other former Italian colonies such as Ethiopia, Somalia and Eritrea.
I’m all for the right of self determination of people and decolonization was a traumatic process for many African countries (think of French Algeria for one), but it’s probably not a coincidence that all of those territories are now failed or war torn states. A smoother and more democratic process after WW2 might probably have helped the regions, but it’s not fair to blame Italy for it’s lack.
Yeah I realized I was getting my Italian fascist leaders mixed up as I commented, but I maintain that Italy has been fucking with Libya since it was Carthage so they can shut the hell up regardless of the British sticking their fingers in the pie.
Italy like all Eurostates wanted colonies and more land, that’s it.
And when you learn nothing from the actions of your ancestors it’s ok to blame them
I’m saying this while being no fan of Gaddafi.
As well you fucking shouldn’t be since you didn’t live under Gadaffis rule. In fact, I don’t think you know the first damn thing as to what the hell you’re talking about.
Why is the EU utterly incapable of establishing legal routes for refuges and moving refuges to other EU member countries in a fair manner?
Because immigrants are scary to a lot of Europeans and they want to keep Europe white?
Clearly you’ve never been to Brussels.
Western and central Europe haven’t been “white” for decades.
Because the amount of work. My country put in place relatively strict every laws, to make sure that people aren’t economical refugees, but legit people in danger in their own country.
Problem is that everybody needs to be checked, and that is a lot of work, making that the centre of admissions is clogged up with demand.
So even if you want stricter control, it can lead to more congestion.
The EU, the US, most of Asia. Refugees and displaced persons is a global issue that isn’t confined to just Europe
Because basic human rights and compassion are not European qualities nor have they ever been
I mean why help people when you can kick them while they’re down? It’s just human nature at this point isn’t it?
Accepting them here won’t help the millions who remain in their home countries. It’ll only entice them to come too, and that is not sustainable.
Progressives: “So, then we should help the developing world improve to the point they no longer seek refuge? Stop climate change to prevent the future influx of hundreds of millions of refugees?”
Conservatism: “Fuck them! Fuck you! Pay me!”
Yeah, I support the first bit. We certainly can afford to help them in their home countries.
Western economies are built on the exploitation of cheap labour abroad for both manufacturing (China, India) and resource extraction (most of Africa). In contrast, the Chinese economy is built on cheap domestic labour and cheap domestic resources so that it can build things for export. The incentive structure is vastly different, because while the West basically has to act out of altruism, it’s in China’s best interest to create more demand for your production.
So then what’s Belt and Road? I mean the thing is literally run by China so that’s the same thing as using other countries for cheap labor. Only China benefits from Belt and Road, no one else does and all their resources go to those cheap Chinese factories
China is guilty of labor exploitation too, there’s literally videos of Chinese people whipping Kenyans ffs
There’s a video of a single Chinese guy whipping a single Kenyan guy who worked for the single Chinese guy’s privately-owned restaurant in Kenya, for which the Chinese guy was fined KSh 3 million for. The same guy who had two other employees without work permits. Not exactly a good generalization of “Chinese” rather than just “shitty guy in general”, nevermind of “China” as a country… And frankly it’s a rather racist generalization.
China’s Belt and Road aims primarily to build out infrastructure of developing countries so that their economy expands and they can buy more Chinese goods. Infrastructure is incredibly profitable, in general (each dollar spent on transportation is estimated to return something like four dollars in government returns). If infrastructure costs go down, returns go up: would you rather spend $10 billion on two dams or $20 billion on one dam and “oh look you ran out of money to build the second dam and your first dam is breaking because you didn’t have experience and oh no you don’t know how to fix it because you’ve never run into this problem before.” That’s the primary sell behind the Belt and Road: they’re cheaper, they’re less likely to fuck up, and if they fuck up China can audit the problem and fix it. You shouldn’t be restricted in what infrastructure you can build by what you domestically have the capability for, because building domestic capability is extremely expensive and extremely time-consuming (and, well, let’s just say that developing countries aren’t called “developing” because they’re swimming in money).
China doesn’t profit off of exploiting resources extraction as much as it does off of manufacturing products. China’s spent a lot of effort to make sure it’s domestic supply chains are robust, but they’re running out of room to export to the West. They have a strong incentive to make developing countries have stronger economies so they can buy more Chinese goods to grow China’s economy. It’s simple economics.
deleted by creator
That’s a lazy response if I’ve ever seen one. What economic advantage does China have for importing resources and selling to the West?
The West is trying to decouple trade with China. Why wouldnt China optimize for it’s economic future?
Damn you did so much to be where you are. I mean you were born in the right country, that has to be really hard.
How many immigrants have you accepted into your home? Would you like a million more?
A grand total of 0! Amazing isn’t it? So again, how did you get that privilege?
I was born in a shit country and everyone here worked hard over the past few decades to turn it into a decent country, with help from developed ones. That’s how.
Let us assume that you actually come from nothing and made it to a better life. Great job. That however still does not mean that the material conditions given to you are the same for everyone else. You assume that everyone has the same possibilities and opportunities as you do. That simply is not the case.
Ok, and what’s your point? Some people don’t get the same opportunities, therefore they should all move to countries which are doing well? What are they going to do once they arrive? Most of them are uneducated, don’t know the language and don’t have any valuable skills. How are they going to survive in these crowded, overpriced cities?
They can’t all live on welfare payments.
That’s why I support helping their home countries develop, funding education and healthcare, sharing agricultural and manufacturing knowledge. It’ll be better for everyone if they turn their poor countries into developed economies.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Giorgia Meloni told the UN general assembly in New York that the huge numbers arriving in Lampedusa, a tiny Sicilian island that for years has been the first port of call for people crossing a perilous stretch of the Mediterranean Sea from north Africa, had placed Italy “under incredible pressure”.
During a visit to Lampedusa on Sunday, Meloni, who took power last October vowing to stop illegal immigration, said “the future of Europe is at stake” unless EU countries worked together to come up with “serious solutions”.
Meloni was the key protagonist of a controversial £105m deal signed in July between the EU and Tunisia, from where the vast majority of people are setting off, to stem irregular migration.
Italy and the EU have a similar deal with Libya, where people have reported severe human rights abuses in detention camps, including being beaten, tortured and raped.
The European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, who accompanied Meloni during the visit to Lampedusa, where they both pledged the swift deportation of those turned down for asylum, urged EU member states to make use of a mechanism enabling them to voluntarily take in migrants to help ease the burden on Italy.
Ten years after Pope Francis made a landmark visit to Lampedusa to show solidarity with migrants, he will join Catholic bishops from the Mediterranean this weekend in the French city of Marseille to make the call more united.
The original article contains 853 words, the summary contains 237 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
deleted by creator
Everything that Italy gets it deserves for electing a descendant of fucking Mussolini
Best of luck when election time comes around. Fascists absolutely love passing power peacefully /s
I know nothing about her politics. I know even less about modern Italian power structures. But I do know that you using someone’s bloodline as an argument against them (or for them) makes me less inclined to hear you out.
The apparent, less-than-measured vitriol towards an entire nation (which could be a misreading, or purely affectational) doesn’t help either.
Take that for what it’s worth - which might not be much.
“I know nothing about this person, here’s why I’m defending them anyways”
lol, uh huh
And in case the passive-aggressive - and really childish - “lol, uh huh” was meant to imply I was somehow covertly politically aligned with her; I’m both on the wrong continent and on the wrong side of the political spectrum for that.
Please consider shaking this bad-faith miscaracterization/so-you’re-saying quote + snarky comment 1-2 combo. It’s not very helpful to anyone - yourself in particular - thought it might feel like it.
Being disingenuous and saying you don’t know someone when you clearly do doesn’t warrant any proper response, people arguing in bad faith isn’t a new concept
I tried to be as charitable as I could here, I really did. Clearly you don’t share the same approach to life. That’s alright, it typically passes after college.
I don’t know what to tell you other than I spent my entire adult life in Asia, having left Europe in large part because I didn’t feel welcome there due to a mixture of my skin color and my ethnicity. I stopped following political developments there ages ago, and this is the first time I heard this woman’s name.
I also happen to be heavily left leaning, and I am sick of people I politically align with, who are too busy being professionally outraged to get anything done. Change hearts and minds; stop looking for “snapplause” moments. Those people already agree with you. You’ve done nothing, won nothing, but a dopamine shot.
…I suspect the bits of personal information above matter to you for some reason, and that makes me profoundly sad. I wish you the best, and I hope that one day your heart opens just a crack more.
I neither have nor had any intention of defending her.
My only intention was to point out the effect the approach above - and now below - has one somene with absolutely no dog in this fight.
While I am a sample of one, that’s an interesting data point for someone looking to advance their political view point - less so for someone looking to score internet points.
Dude, Lemmy is a shit hole for political discourse. It’s just an outrage echo chamber. The best we can do is call someone fascist, get our applause, and move on.
I really had hoped for something better on the fediverse, but I am noticing a move in that direction. At the same time, I’ve had some rather heartwarming interactions here. I’m still holding out hope…
I’m hoping as the user base grows the quality of the discourse will improve but I’m not holding my breath.
