To be fair, it wouldn’t be unprecedented .

Just so you understand, there has never even been neo-Nazism in Ukraine. And there was no “problem”; this problem was artificially spread by Russia.

Weird that that’s getting downvotes. Especially when that’s the official Russian position.

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Unlike all of your “quality posts” and no toxicity, huh? Lmao.

Block what you don’t like buddy. Don’t impose your censorship on everyone else.

Blame yourself, that’s the implication of your comment.

The lack of self awareness…

What the hell did you mean by “rent free” if it wasn’t “the dumbest thing you’ll read all day”?

The issue is outside of any “true” morality, if you were in Russia chances are you’d be doing the exact same for the other side, since moral justifications for violence can be constructed and consented to on behalf of the public through many methods. Retribution violence is propagandized heavily in the US, in media and civic life. Some people gleefully imagine themselves inflicting violence with their firearm of choice if only provided with the right circumstance. So all this becomes a matter of dividing people by who is morally granted to inflict the violence they’ve been conditioned to view as justified, perpetuating the cycle. Viewing history as a river of blood and ignoring the banks of the river where people live their lives.

I followed this war for first 2 months only, i am neither on Russian or Ukrainian side.

I am in country which doesn’t belong to American or Russian side. Except “the world” (NATO+2 other boot kissers) every other nation citizen knows that this war started due to bullying faced by a nation constantly being surrounded by weapons of “the world” nations. It didn’t come out of no where, ukarine became the victim. Other than “the world” countries nobody believes Ukraine stance to continue is any form of stand against evil, everybody knows what Americans and NATO did to middle eastern people, they carpet bombed entire villages couple days after 9/11 and everybody enjoyed that horror show while drinking beers in pubs and eating crisps, and we were supposed to believe all those murdered by carpet bombing were terrorists; all non-“the world” countries know what is happening. Before internet bullies jump on me, I am also not from middle east.

Initially it was clear in first 2 weeks that Russian soldiers were very well behaved and didn’t touch any civilian, Russian troops were bullied and harassed by local civilians, stones were thrown at them on video and no retaliation was caught on any camera whatsoever. One can argue whether those Russian soldiers should be there or not, but they were there already, can’t change it. Memes were being made that Russian soldiers are weak girls who can’t do anything, their non-aggressive stance was seen as weakness

Later came American and NATO donated ordinance, which turned invasion into bloody unnecessary war.

Now as a third party national with no interest in who wins the “trophy”, I find it shameful that Internet warriors are saying things like Ukraine is winning or Russia is winning. Internet is full of bull… Ukraine which was once very beautiful country with wonderful free of cost education for all/foreigners is an absolute ruin, they are winning nothing, no matters what the outcome is.

No matters how much I respect bravery of Ukrainians, It clearly is a war being fought for American ego, and victim is every Ukraine resident, no matters how much nationalist pride they try to show online or offline for anyone’s “bravery”, Ukraine has advanced backwards towards history; whatever the result Ukraine has lost big time, the longer war goes, the more they lose.

Please stop this non-sense war, nobody is giving you weapons because they believe you are fighting for freedom, if you believed in freedom, you would join NAM movement like the non-“the world” countries.

” If you sincerely support Ukrainian people you have to realize they are not being supported by the west simply because they are good deserving people, else we’d have sent weapons to many other groups in even more dire situations

its pretty clear though the reasons for ukraine support in the west isnt purely because ukraine is our best mate, its because of the implications if they were to fall, pretty sure even ukraine is well aware of this. its simply an outcome that needs to be avoided at all costs other wise europe is going to be in for a hell of a decade

The heart of your inquiry is why does Ukraine get such aid and support while others don’t? To me the answer goes beyond the, “well there’s got to be something in it for us” cynical perspective and boils simply down to just how clear-cut the righteous side is from the wrong side.

In Syria, there was the FSA, sure. But this was muddied with the risk of supporting more radical factions. Additionally their factions were more or less headless, too. The world knows Zelenskyy and what he stands for, precisely.

So if you can give me a scenario where (a) The line between right and wrong are this clear and (b) The conflict is to the massive scale that is Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, then I’m all ears.

In that respect there is discussion to be had, I suppose. But does this change anything? Even you agree Russia is still 100% in the wrong, that we should support Ukraine. What irks you is alleged inconsistency which I think is beyond the scope of what we’re talking about here.

It is logical to identify as “whataboutism” criticism of “Western Powers” for actions unrelated to Ukraine in the context of a discussion about Ukraine, simply because the only thing about what’s being discussed in such a take is the saying bad things about the allies of one side.

Maybe it is whataboutism, or maybe that was not the intention of the person making that criticism in that context, but it’s logical to deem it so because it’s the explanation that makes most sense for a person making such a comment in such a context.

However such criticism is most definitelly warranted and makes sense in plenty of other contexts.

Also sometimes there really are no other contexts in which to point something out: as somebody has pointed out elsewhere under this post, in the West (including Lemmy, which seems to mainly have users from the “West”) there is quite a skewed and uneven coverage of the plight of Ukranians versus other plights right now in the World, and you hardly have a good context to talk about that when there are no discussions about that (it would be nice if we had some discussions about just how decayed Journalism in most of the Press is, which would lend itself to point such things out)

I’m not a bot either beep beep

It is pretty revealing how you immediately and uncritically identified with the “tankies and nazis” appellation.

“left terrorists” 😂a term i haven’t heard in a while

Next will come Satanists and Marilyn Mason 's fans

Or that Europe’s “fall” was pending in 1943. France had already been taken over by then, while the Battle of Britain had secured England’s airspace, and Russia was pushing back in the east. Germany had seen its high water mark at least two years before.

There was a rather Infamous Day a few years prior to that…best not feed the trolls I suppose

Care to provide an alternative then?

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I don’t know why point is he even making. He’s looking like a total evil jackass and has only proven that either he loves to troll, is actually trying to make tankies look like homicidal maniacs (they don’t need any help) or is actually evil lol!

It seems like we always slippery-sloped this conflict from the beginning. If Russia is given a square millimetre of land, then they’ll demand all of Ukraine, Poland, and for good measure, North Carolina, and of course kill everyone there.

Let’s look at this from a different perspective.

Putin has a need to posture and project power. Most autocrats do, and especially in a country that’s otherwise stagnant. Russia can hardly point to a robust economy or major international stage presence in the last few decades, and the continuing encroachment of institutions like NATO and the EU in his backyard just make them look even more impotent and irrelevant.

That’s why the Donbass was such a great target, if you look at it from a marketing perspective: it lets him say “We’re important! We’re powerful! We still have a sphere of influence!”, and wrap it in an appealing (to a domestic audience) story of “We’re reuniting a community of fellow Russophones, who have been repressed by a country that didn’t get the memo that slapping the Black Sun on every surface isn’t the best PR choice ever”. It promised a cheap win that 's full of the exact symbolism he’s after.

From that perspective, it might have spiraled into a “we have to conquer/control all of Ukraine” situation because anything but a full formal surrender will be a military and political hairball to enforce. But does they even want that? It’s way more difficult and expensive, and presents a much less compelling story to rally the public behind; you have to really try to force the “de-Nazification” angle to try to make it remotely look palatable.

If we reconceptualize the situation as “what’s the cheapest way to let Putin walk away with the win he actually craves”, that might have been simply putting on a big stage act and saying “uwu you’re so big and strong, we can’t possibly stand up to your mighty military, here’s a token concession, please let us live, and can we have a treaty of mutual friendship because we like you so much more than those weak EU people?” He gets the street cred he craves at home, and overall bloodshed is minimized. Yes, it’s still incentivizing a bully to be a bully, but generally people prefer that to being dead.