First, I am a late diagnosis, so if some of my terminology is offensive please tell me, assimilation is hard.
On the the point, I have been noticing a pattern, I am in a number of allistic or mixed groups, online or in meetup type spaces. I am trying to expand my social circle, and I have nearly always been alone.
Is it typical amongst nurotypical people to respond to a question with need for information questions and then, when they realize that (and I don’t know which) they’re not interested or they can’t help they just move on, not explain that they can’t help or aren’t interested?
OMG, I’m so excited to answer this question! 😆 Also, I’m happy you asked this because it means you’re intuitive enough to pick up on it on your own and vulnerable enough to seek knowledge and improve your life. To me, this is a good sign for your well-being, altough I know it might not feel that way.
What I’ve learned in my intense special interest with autism and neurotypicality over the past year is that allistics are constantly aware of a social hierarchy and everyone’s position on it, though it is more prevalent in some social settings over others. A main life purpose is to be as high as possible while not trying to look like it.
One way to maintain or increase their position is to appear knowledgeable. It serves the purpose of seeming like a valuable resource and that they may have undisclosed tricks should someone attack them for their position. Despite trying to seem like no one is doing this, they all know they are. Because of this, they have learned that they should only ask knowledge questions that the other person will know the answer to. Otherwise, asking a question someone can’t confidently answer correctly is an attack on their position. In other words, asking this is pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. Therefore, asking a question that someone doesn’t know the answer to causes the anxiety of being attacked.
They have several manners in which to respond, but two come to mind. One, they can be confident in their social power and openly admit that they don’t know. However, you’ll really only see this with high ranking people that have security in their social rank (e.g. executives, famous professors, etc.) , those that are so low in their rank that not knowing isn’t going to affect them, or people that are visiting temporarily so their long-term position doesn’t matter or they have an excuse to not know. Two, they can distract everyone by manipulating the topic in a way that helps observers not realize they don’t know. Howver, this makes the asker seem either rude or offensive. As such, they will want to limit contact with the asker.
Situations in which I have noticed this to be more common are where people that have acquired positions beyond their effective capacities by manipulating social situations, such as through lying, group politics, appearance, or a mix. It also happens with people new to the setting and are trying to establish a high rank.
By the way, there is a book in the helpful resources link (see the sidebar) that was written by an autistic for autistics explaining the allistic world that I found insightful and helpful. It’s called a Field Guide to Earthlings and should be available for free. If you have trouble getting it, please let me know!
they can be confident in their social power and openly admit that they don’t know. However, you’ll really only see this with high ranking people that have security in their social rank (e.g. executives, famous professors, etc.) , those that are so low in their rank that not knowing isn’t going to affect them, or people that are visiting temporarily so their long-term position doesn’t matter or they have an excuse to not know.
I very much agree with everything you said, except for the above sentence. Being high ranking in a formal institution doesn’t automatically translate to being high social status and it certainly doesn’t translate to being confident.
Many people in high ranking positions are extremely insecure and will cling to their position in a desperate attempt to increase their status. Being ignorant may not affect a high ranker position but it will affect their status (especially if the ignorance is displayed in a social setting). Because of this, how a person respond will be heavily affected by the status of the asker.
Okay, so first wow and thank you, that is a lot and I am going to need to read it a few times and I love it!
Now I have to tell you the first few sentences I had a person with hands together 🙏clapping them rapidly right at their sternum. And for the rest there was a hurried voice and someone repeatedly returning up and down to and from tip toes. And-it-was-magical.
Now I am going to read that like 5 times so I can absorb it. And thank you again…I will also look at that book, but I generally run stuff like that by my therapist first to make sure it doesn’t clash with what we are working on at the moment.
You’re very welcome!
Yes, I was excited similar to the person you described, but I wasn’t in a position to act it out at the time. I still felt it though!
Now I am going to read that like 5 times so I can absorb it.
Let me know if you have any questions about what I commented. Also, please know that I am not a specialist in this field or a therapist. I’m just some guy that got real interested in the subject once I was diagnosed.
I generally run stuff like that by my therapist first to make sure it doesn’t clash with what we are working on at the moment.
That sounds like a great rule to have 🙂
Yes, I was excited similar to the person you described, but I wasn’t in a position to act it out at the time. I still felt it though!
I am very glad because I felt like I brought joy to your life.
And I will I have a bookmark placed on your comment so I can get back to it. If I come up with questions I will put it in a reply here so you will get a notification.
I’m not diagnosed. I have had some doubts for the last handful of years, and especially since I started meds for ADHD. But if that’s really how allistics think like… Damn boi, I’m autistic as fuck 😂
Okay…I’m gonna say it. I’m really going to say it. Allism is a spectrum 😆. Actually, it’s really a set of spectra. Either way, some do what I commented more than others. On one end, you’ve got people high on narcissism, and other you have selfless people. It really all depends, and every single person is an individual with their own traits. But yes, they tend to think that way, while autistics tend to not.
Oh, yeah, totally. They’ll hijack a conversation and steer it to something else if they sense the rest of the group is also fading in attention.
i’ve seen it done to break “group tension” regardless of the legitimacy/validity/earnestness/context of the conversation
Yes. One reason is it’s simply less effort. Another is it can be socially awkward to deny someone, or to admit ignorance.
This feels like a likely theory. Something like:
I thought I could help (knew something, whatever) but turns out I don’t. Now I am embarrassed, and don’t want to admit my mistake.
That is valid. I could give some grace to that situation, this really did help. I was ready to be angry about it, but this is much better.
This happens to me a lot. It is so frustrating. People either don’t care to elaborate, or, they can’t be bothered or don’t know how to explain the question they are asking, because it makes sense to them. sigh This definitely has an impact in some of my social circles, and I feel left out when it happens.
There are times that I feel like others are taking offense to me asking for clarification. I have found that in some cases my tone of voice is misunderstood, trying to clear up the misunderstanding didn’t help, but it did at least give me an explanation.
In the western world, yes, I’d say it’s pretty normal (haven’t lived in any western country, just communicating with a lot of people that do live in one). In eastern countries, not so much… though western trends have progressed here as well, it is still common to give some sort of an explanation as to why you’d like to stop communication with some person, regardless if it was online or in person.
For the record, I’m not autistic (or at least I don’t think so 😂).
I appreciate this, I tend to forget my America centric world view, and I can see this as a more cultural thing maybe?..it feels very disrespectful, I feel like once there is engagement there needs to be some closure to the conversation. In fact I often find myself in an anxious state waiting for a response, and I do my best not to be hypocritical I try not to cause that same anxiety.
Anyway thank you for the response, and perspective.
Yes, I do believe it’s more of a cultural thing… westerners seem to be more cold when it comes to emotions, which is why people that are more emotional see a problem in this, whereas, if they lived in another cultural sourrounding, they might feel right at home.
Yes, I do agree on the closure part. I like to have one as well, but not all people are like that. I can tell just by the way a conversation is going where a person lives, lol 😂… or at least have a general idea.
Don’t beat yourself up over not having closure. Different people, different characters, different perceptions. If they don’t offer one, hey, they’re probably not the right person for you to be having a conversation with in the first place. I’ve had the same thing happen to me hundreds of times, so I just got used to it now and brush it off. Real friends and people you’re close to don’t do that… well, at least in my experience. Stick to the ones that don’t do that, push the others aside. They’re not enemies, but probably not as close to you as you might have though.
I hope this isn’t bothersome, but I want to understand, I am hearing, find comfort in conversation. I have trouble with conversational skill (there’s a surprise lol), so I have come to understand there will never be a conversation I come away from feeling “right”, but if I understand you correctly, it would be a good idea to stick with people, given the choice, that have conversation characteristics that keep us both comfortable.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your input. I know over time I have lost a lot of my people skill, not that I want the mask back I just want some form of socialization.
… but if I understand you correctly, it would be a good idea to stick with people, given the choice, that have conversation characteristics that keep us both comfortable.
Exactly 👍.
You don’t make friends with people you don’t like, right 😉. The same goes for conversations. You make small chit chat with people you know will lead the conversation in a direction you might not like. And only if you really need to talk to them, like need some sort of an info that they might have or they write you up with a hey, how you doing. Keep it civil, but short. If it starts to progress in a manner you might not like, be honest, tell them you don’t want to talk about this or that because you might get frustrated from the outcome of the converstaion. I’m sure they’ll apreciate that and know your boundaries, which in turn will let them know exactly where you 2 stand, in the terms of friendship and all that.
I would sugest more open minded people as friends or partners. People that, let’s say, listen to alternative music or be more into art, tend to be more open minded. I’d start looking for friends in those circles. Even if you don’t listen to that particular music style or don’t like art, general conversation is something most people enjoy a lot. So, just dig in that direction and I’m sure you’ll find some people that are eccetric enough to find your conversations interesting and your stand points, no matter how weird they are to the rest of society, interesting and maybe even funny (in a positive way, of course 😂) ☺️.
You have a way of explaining things that seems to make better sense to me. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to help. You have given me a lot to think over and some concrete ideas to try out.
I am always amazed when I cross paths with such helpful people. You are an exceptionally kind person.
Again thank you!
No problem, you’re welcome ☺️.
I have been struggling with people in general myself… as in, I’m not really considered “normal” in most societies. Eccentric? Yes, most probably, but in general, just weird. Some find that relaxing and me interesting, but to most people I’m just a weirdo. That’s fine, I’ve come to accept that, it’s not really a problem at this point. I used to think there was something wrong with me, for a very long time… and maybe there is, IDK, but I’ve given up on trying to fit in or finding a “cure” for my weirdness. I just do what I feel (in my heart) is right and live with the consiquences 🤷. Sure, I do put on breaks and masks sometimes, in critical situations, but when things are more casual, I’m just muself. Whoever wants to make converstaion or just get to know me, fine. If they find my stand points and opininons off putting, that’s fine as well, we’re just different, that’s all ☺️. You go your way, me my way and that’s all there is to it 🤷 😂.
You have a great outlook, I spent so much time “keeping up appearances” and it damn near killed me. I swang the other way and it damn near did the same thing, I guess now I am looking for my middle ground. Just enough of an ass to scare off most of the hateful bitter people, just kind enough to not be a doormat. Anything that is left is just the shine on the coin.
