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She will once again campaign only in states where it is possible to flip to Trump. Instead of safer states where she could get 5% of the vote and thus qualify for matching funds for the green party.
That is how you know it’s completely bullshit and she is being run as a spoiler candidate for Trump.
Well that and the picture of her and Michael Flynn sitting at Putins table at a Russian state dinner in December of 2015.
How tragic is it that there isn’t even enough enthusiasm to maintain a genuine, non-astroturfed or political spoiler based environment first party and platform?
As pissed off as some are, anyone myself included not getting arrested trying to protest/sabotage oil lines aren’t taking the destruction of our only shared habitat we all rely on literally from one breath to the next seriously enough.
I know I know, we don’t need to breathe, we don’t need crops or fresh water, we just need more jerbs and a stronger economy to drop dead in. Lol, humans, I’d say nothing of value will be lost, but we aren’t just killing ourselves. And as projections continue to worsen, and our circumstances grow more dire, all the other species that had nothing to do with what we did will barely enter our collective minds as we languish in self-pity, as if the once bountiful Earth we raped, pillaged, and burned somehow betrayed us instead of the other way around.
Part of the problem is the First Past The Post system. Any third party will just bleed votes away from the closest major party. In the case of a party dedicated to protecting the environment, this means votes taken from the Democrats. If the third party grows too powerful, they will split too many votes with the Democrats and Republicans will take control. And once that happens, the environment will be trashed. (Well, trashed even more than it already has been.)
If we switched to Ranked Choice Voting or Approval Voting, you could vote for a third party and still pick a major party candidate as your fallback position. So you could theoretically vote for Jill Stein (ignoring all the other problems with her) and vote for Biden as your second pick (or third or fourth). When Stein failed to get enough votes, your vote won’t be wasted, but would revert to a different choice.
why the downvotes?. SMH
Until we get ranked choice voting or similar the Green Party is a joke with zero chance of election. Voting for them only helps Republicans at this point in time.
If less enthusiastic Republican voters have a chance to vote for a neutral party instead of voting for a shitshow, then how is it helping Republicans?!
Lol it’s not Republicans voting for the green party, the green party has only ever siphoned votes from the Democratic candidates.
the votes belong to the voters, not to the parties. democrats need to earn their votes just like everyone else.
The GOP is attempting to destroy democracy, the Dems are not. The GOP are trying to subjugate me as a queer/trans person and POC as well, the Dems are not. The GOP are removing human rights from us, the Dems are not. The Dems are trying to pass green energy legislation, gun control laws, and more while the GOP are blocking it.
Those are some pretty good god damn reasons.
under no pretext.
voting for Democrats facilitates fascism.
So you read all of that and you could only muster an emotional response.
I think that says all that needs to be said. You’d rather enable our democracy to be destroyed (and you know, make it harder to do anything about fascism later) and vote in a way that will make you feel a little better about yourself while it goes into the void.
I stated a fact. I don’t know what you mean about emotion.
voting for fascist does make it harder to get fascist out of a power. that’s why I don’t vote for democrats.
we don’t have a democracy and we never have.
Yeah see how that turns out if the republicans win next election. They facilitate fascism by being the only alternative to actual fascist politicians. They certainly aren’t perfect, but seriously how do you think it plays out if enough morons like you vote for Putin apologist Stein? What do you think the end result will be?
Stein isn’t a Putin apologist.
Democrats are full fascist. they don’t just facilitated by being fascism light.
do you think that you’re going to win voters by calling them morons?
Just trying to help:
Neoliberalism was an attempt to save both the state and capitalism. Capitalism, however, cannot be rehabilitated. It will not save us from totalitarianism or state-sponsored genocide. Capital can absorb any product, service, or practice (including government practice) into itself and then reproduce itself. It is always primed for, always flirting with, the spectre of fascism. Source
No idea why your being down voted. This is 100% correct.
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Genocide Joe isn’t earning your vote? /s
You’re thinking of the “libertarian” party.
She’s a democrat choice not a republican choice.
Source: voted for her in 2016
if i would vote for jill stein or cornel west (i mean, i have to be honest, it’s nice to have choices) or the libertarian or no candidate at all, how do any of those votes help republicans?
the only vote that helps republicans is a vote for a republican.
Wrong. Dead fucking wrong. Due to our current shitty system the only parties with any chance of winning are Dems or GOP, every vote that doesn’t go to the Dems is another point the GOP has over them. If you don’t vote for Dems you’re facilitating fascism. Simple as.
I don’t like our choices but we don’t have the option to be fucking picky right now, there’s fascists at the door and they’re working hard to ruin our lives.
voting for the lesser evil will only serve to guarantee that you will forever be voting for the lesser evil and that you will reach the same evil that the alternative raced towards, but slower.
Thats really poetic but observe our choices in reality in relation to the systems we built to usher them in. You don’t cut your parachute just because you’re falling anyway.
My god, what a stupid take.
The lesser evil is by definition the better choice! If you refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, you are effectively choosing the greater evil. It does not get any stupider than that.
If you refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils,
you are choosing not to vote for evil.
you are choosing not to vote for evil.
And allowing the greater evil to win.
in the trolley scenario, i don’t touch the lever. you can choose to be a murderer, but i won’t.
The fascists at the door were invited in by democrat enablers
voting for Democrats facilitates fascism.
Fascism is, by it’s definition, a right wing ideology, not a left wing ideology.
It’s OK to admit when you don’t know something. We can help!
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095811414
“An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.”
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They LITERALLY are.
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Democrats, at worst, are centrist, not right wing. If you can’t comprehend basic terminology then perhaps this is not the community for you.
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Basic math. The stuff most of us learned as children.
these aren’t magic phrases that change my vote for one person into a vote for another person.
No shit, it’s quite obvious no one is going to change your mind and I’m not trying to. I answered the posed question in a public forum. Turns out other people also read these comments.
your response isn’t actually an answer, though. it’s just rhetoric.
No, it just seems that way because you don’t understand basic math.
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Chupacabra’s cloaca.
There are at least three truly cursed combinations of words out there in the world that most only see a handful of times throughout their lifespan. They are both forbidden and beautiful in their execution.
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Is this the first election in American history with more Russian candidates than American ones?
Hexbear has assured me that RussiaGate was a hoax, so, no.
Let’s see:
- Fascism is calling from inside the house
- All of the Republican candidates are fascists
- The Supreme Court is stacked with Federalist Society-bred Christian Originalists.
- Trump is likely going to be the Republican nominee
And here’s Jill, like, “Mmm, yeah. Now’s a good time to try to split the vote.”
i think she’s thinking “now’s a good time for a green president” or maybe “now is a good time for an antiwar president” or “now is a good time for a woman president”. but what do i know? i’m just gonna vote for her.
now is a good time for an antiwar president
Then maybe pick someone who doesn’t support Russia’s war of imperial conquest against Ukraine.
jill stein doesn’t support any war.
I mean, her tweet on it is as close as you can get to supporting it without saying you support it.
she called it an illegal invasion.
she’s not the guest of honor. she’s just a RT contributor who got invited and paid her own way. this isn’t the OWN that Rachel maddow thinks it is.
Are you fucking stupid or just full on tankie? What she said is the equivalent to when someone starts a statement with “I’m not racist but…”
She says it was a mild response? A response to what? What forced Russia to invade? Did Ukraine start pointing nukes at Russia? Fuck no. That was Russian apologist propaganda.
you’re robbing it of context. she’s talking about Western foreign policy.
Are you fucking stupid or just full on tankie?
false dichotomy: I’m an educated anti fascist.
Her: “Yeah, weed is illegal, but everyone does it, it should be legal, it has great health benefits, I take it daily.”
You: “She’s against weed. She said weed is illegal.”
she didn’t say it should be legal.
I mean, in the primaries, I’ll vote for whomever I personally like. But when Biden inevitably wins the nomination, I’ll be voting for him, because it’s either him or fascism. That’s not a hard choice to make.
since he is a fascist it’s no choice at all.
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it actually has a meaning.
it sure does. hey, do you think Biden should march into Congress and take the fasces off the wall, or just drape an American flag over them?
How is Biden a fascist? What do you think that word means?
fascism is a reactionary ideology the arose in response to leftist ideology like libertarian socialism or communism. a fascist society is strictly stratified and forces every institution to serve the interests of the state. liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism. look at the war on drugs or the cias war on communism. then look at every opportunity Biden had to endorse them or hinder them over the last 50 years.
That’s not what fascism is (or at least, it’s too broad of a definition). I think you’re responding in good faith, so:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Being reactionary is a facet of Conservatism, and being on the political right itself, can have considerable overlap with fascism, but fascism itself need not be reactionary.
But Biden supporting the war on drugs, for example, doesn’t make him a fascist. It makes him a supporter of a partial police state, sure, but that’s still not the same thing. Additionally, he’s made considerable effort to promote democracy, something a fascist wouldn’t do. And if he was a fascist, he would be a darling of the extreme right politicians and media, the “Democrat they always wished for.” Instead, they are doing everything they can to invent evidence to impeach him.
Biden is a self-avowed Zionist, and part of old-guard-Democrats who support(ed) some awful policies. But there is no way you can honestly construe him as being cut from the same cloth as Hitler or Trump.
I don’t see him as Hitler or trump. I see him as mussolini.
he never made any effort to promote democracy.
Democrats have done nothing to earn our votes, they are not entitled to them. Democrats have enabled every one of your bullet points. ‘Splitting the vote’ is liberal myth.
Yeah because why let facts get in the way of your alternative reality, tankie. I’m a very lefty guy and not a fan of the Dems. But splitting votes is real and a real strategy. Say something when she doesn’t focus only on battleground states and her funding is all grass roots.
If you use the word “tankie” unironically, you are not a leftist. Vaush would be proud.
There is a fucking chasm wider than the grand canyon between being left on the political spectrum and being a stalin apologist. And pretending that third parties in the US elections format don’t act as spoilers and that is a liberal myth is either (a) just being really fucking stupid or (b) some tankie bullshit made by a person living in lala land.
See, I’m complex enough to acknowledge that the democrats kind of suck overall, having multiple parties would be better, but also accepting that given how the current system functions things can absolutely be worse if Trump wins again. Let us not forget that last time Stein implicitly supported Trump saying she like he won’t be able to get anything done but Hillary is efficient and will likely make things worse. Stein is fully capable of pulling just enough votes that Trump could win. And last time that ended Roe v Wade. This time, say buh bye to assistance for Ukraine. He wanted to fuck up NATO before. I’m sure that’d be real high priority now.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. This is not how I’d like the world to be. But there is no magic wand and you can’t just pretend things are totally different and think that has an effect.
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Can I ask, do you consider yourself a Social Democrat? Do you want to reform capitalism? Or, do you consider yourself a socialist? Do you want to supplant capitalism?
Democrats have done nothing to earn our votes, they are not entitled to them
Jill Stein and the Green Party have achieved literally nothing in their 22 years of existence.
They haven’t elected anyone significant at any level of government, haven’t authored any significant legislation, and have done the bare minimum to shift political discourse. They also have to earn our votes, and so far they have done very little to earn mine.Even discounting the obvious statistical reality of the spoiler effect, is Jill Stein really the best candidate the Green Party has to offer? How on Earth can a party with so little to lose be so obviously out of fresh ideas already?
Say what you will about the libertarian ideology, but at least I can give the Libertarian Party credit for putting a couple asses in seats at various levels of government. The Green Party, in comparison, has had no such success, and the fact that they’re going back to Jill Stein (a weak candidate who’s buddies with Putin and didn’t perform well) shows that they have very little intention of improving.
‘Splitting the vote’ is liberal myth.
I’m sorry but you are absolutely delusional if you really believe this.
Whether you like it or not, vote splitting and the spoiler effect are well-documented statistical realities based on the flaws of our current first-past-the-post voting systems. This is 100% a math problem, and it’s one that’s been written about a lot by many different people.
If that bothers you (and it should) then I encourage you to read up on alternative, more democratic voting systems like Ranked-Choice (aka Instant Runoff) and STAR voting systems, which are generally more fair and far less susceptible to problems like spoiling and wasted votes.
democratic voting systems like Ranked-Choice
You mean like the ones that the DNC is suing to keep off the 2024 ballots? Democrats have this crazy idea that even with rank choice voting we would check off any of your shitty candidates. This is not about compromise, rank choice voting is based on compromise. Trying to work within the systems that created the situation we are in, will never fix the situations that we are in. There is no reforming the party, there is no pushing them left after the election, there is no lesser evil. The entire system needs to be upended and then changed
Don’t believe history, modern political theory, basic math, or your eyes, instead believe me! My area just managed to out a fascist through splitting the vote so it’s very actionable.
Earn my vote
I don’t think you were going to vote either way if your head is in the ground like that.
Avoid lying on the internet for a few years and they might.
this and the fact biden was so un-apologetically banking on homophobic, sexist and classicist issues until well after it became politically convenient to change is exactly why i stopped voting democrat and i love that i’ve been able to convince other who i have a relationship with to stop as well.
thanks for saying
Maybe you should learn to string a sentence together before you try to “convince other” of anything.
“thanks for saying”!
Ah, yes. Because as we all know, taking away from Democrats to vote for a third party will also diminish the Republican voting bloc. Oh wait…
Your ability to choose is an illusion.
thank you
lol, Putin’s bitch.
Putin"s other bitch
Come on… You can hate Stein all you want for being a spoiler, but there is zero evidence she has any connection to Putin.
She’s a useful idiot. She’s too stupid to see it, as you seem to be.
There’s a difference between an ill-advised third party run and collusion with Russia. Stein is mentioned once in this article with zero evidence of a connection.
Did Russia try to unilaterally boost Stein’s campaign (along with all third party candidates)? Likely.
Should Stein have dropped out if she knew this? No.
Should Stein have dropped out because she was contributing to Trump’s win? Yes.
She’s putin’s bitch whether she realizes it or not. She’s actively eroding democracy in the US because of her idiotic, quixotic aspirations.
Fools never recognize a zero sum game.
Because of course she does.
Ouch, that is some of Russia’s top brass, what the hell is she doing in the middle of all that?
I just went from… maybe… to nope in one picture.
Will she be funded by Donald Trump again like in 2016?
Hillary supported Trump in the primary.
This old donkey needs to ride off into the sunset. This is a spoiler campaign.
Russian pawns gonna pawn
How 'bout No?
No thanks. I’ll vote who is likely to win based on mathematics with weighs on preference on top and those I prefer on the downballot. Do this enough time, and there will be a split between progressives and moderates when conservatives eventually become ineffective minority.
Wasn’t she the dividing vote for democrats in the 2016 election?
Hillary being a shitty candidate is what caused 2016
Found the third party voter
You make it sound like this discovery was found with extensive investigation.
She sounds good on paper, but not much else. Needs to stay off the stage.
I cast a Jill Stein protest vote in 2012 because Obama had a lock on my state, and I felt like Obama and the Dems in general had strayed too far to the right. Obviously, Obama won my state and the presidency, which is what I actually wanted. I just felt like we could move the Dems to the left by showing them they were leaving votes on the table. That does not work. I can get into why, but the basics are that third parties only act as spoilers.
In any case, Jill Stein is a terrible candidate on paper. All she does is mouth the dream set of policies a lot of us would love, but has no program to achieve them, she has no experience picking staff or running a large organization, she has all the charisma of a rotten banana, and she refused to throw down against anti-vax because it’d alienate half her base.
I’m for a serious Green Party in the US - one that is actually oriented towards governing. The Greens internationally are a real party, not the party equivalent of Vermin Supreme.
Honestly, most of the US agrees with the Greens on a lot of issues, and they could make enough of a big tent that a seriously (constructed and funded) Green Party could probably take multiple seats in the House, at the very least. They could caucus with the Dems, but try to pull things left. They’d work like the Squad, or Bernie and Warren. Between the coasts and the big cities, they could probably swing ten or more seats.
But instead we get Jill, yet again. Honestly, I’d like to see an investigation of her Trump-like election challenging fundraising.
They rarely even run in down ticket elections.
Isn’t she the one who publicly claimed 911 was an inside job?
Well it’s certainly better than Howie again. Cornel West should’ve stuck with the party. Him on greens would have had an unprecedented shot.
