- cross-posted to:
- world
- cross-posted to:
- world
The next years are going to be fun… The world is burning while the fossil fuel industry is chugging along like everything is great as long as you buy enough co2 credits.
I’m scared in what kind of world my children will have to live in…
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It’ll be fine. It has all happened before. There was 5x to 10x as much CO2 in the atmosphere when the dinosaurs were alive (2000 to 4000 ppm).
All we need to do is kill off about 7 billion people and have the survivors move to the south pole atleast 300’ above sea level.
Remember when Gary Johnson argued that climate change wasn’t a big deal because the sun would become a red giant in a few billion years anyway?
You had me with the first half ngl
Not sure if this was sarcasm. On a serious note:
There was 5x to 10x as much CO2 in the atmosphere when the dinosaurs were alive (2000 to 4000 ppm).
Yes, but that is irrelevant. CO2 levels were never so high in the existence of humans. We know for a fact humans could survive without burning coal and oil. We do not know wether our existence is compatible with these unprecedented CO2 levels, but started the experiment nevertheless.
Lol definitely sarcasm per the second paragraph of that comment. Good point on general toxicity at those levels. I looked it up and it appears we can survive it, albeit in a moderately reduced state.
Remember, elections have consequences. While, at least in the US, neither party is perfect, Republicans are actively engaged in climate denial.
Vote accordingly.
It seems like elections only have consequences and never any benefits. While republicans are worse than democrats, I don’t see democrats moving effectively in this area. It’s usually business as usual with democrats (e.g. Biden signing in more drilling permits). At best I see too-little-too-late agreements with non-strict enforcement that republicans can cancel any time they get power (which is inevitable in our system).
While republicans are worse than democrats,
That doesn’t really matter - the problem is they enable each other. They just play a “good cop, bad cop” routine while “business as usual” accelerates. Political parties aren’t interested in changing the status quo - but it’s the status quo that must be changed.
Yeah, I’ve had to make sure to include that in every post I make criticizing democrats because otherwise people who’ve had their brains poisoned by the two party system immediately jump to stupid conclusions like “oh, are you saying we should vote for republicans then?!?!?!” or try to dismiss all criticism by pointing out the obvious in that republicans are worse.
The thing with good cop, bad cop is that they both have the same objective and neither are on your side. It’s a great act, too, because people actually get fooled into thinking parties bought and paid for by the rich are somehow fighting for the common person.
The problem is that as long as actively lying in order to get elected isn’t a crime and enough people are just falling for those lies then there is nothing we can do really.
The reality is that adaptions for climate change WILL as a direct response change habits that people had for years and even make our lives on average less luxurious - if it’s legal for one party to campaign on “everything can stay the same way it’s been” that’s more attractive to a lot of people.
Elections sort of have consequences sometimes. In some places. Especially in the US, both sides play the same game and both allow corporations to act with enough impunity for it to make no difference who is in charge. The fact that “democracy” has become a choice between two essentially identical options tells you everything you need to know about the idea. Not to mention that the US is a republic not a democracy anyway and is therefore a totally different beast. And the second biggest economy and influence on the climate is China - another “democracy” which isn’t one.
“the US is a Republic not a democracy…”
Thanks for telling us that you don’t know WTF you’re talking about.
This idea of yours, that republics and democracies are somehow mutually exclusive concepts is a deeply stupid category error that has zero basis in political science (to say nothing of practical reality) and almost always is the redoubt of those who wish to justify the dysfunction of the current status quo.
There’s no need to get upset about it mate. At least not about my comment. Please do get upset about (I assume) your government. Its a shitshow. I never said anything about mutual exclusivity, all I said is that being a republic, the rulesa re different to what they would be otherwise. Gerrymandering, the executive branch, the judicial branch, and especially the electoral college, all mean that even though some people are allowed to vote, power lies with the political class and oligarchs, not with the people voting.
Here’s some handy info about republics: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
“the US is a Republic not a democracy…”
Thanks for telling us that you don’t know WTF you’re talking about.
This idea of yours, that republics and democracies are somehow mutually exclusive concepts is a deeply stupid category error that has zero basis in political science (to say nothing of practical reality) and almost always is the redoubt of those who wish to justify the dysfunction of the current status quo.
Weather and even temperature are a bit of a red herring in all this. The extreme weather is caused by the rising temps and feedback loops, but what’s happening is just the heat trying to normalize. We’re not going to end up with 70c at the equator and -30c at the poles. Look at the cretaceous temp, CO2, and fossil records and you’ll see that the temp evens out even with CO2 massively higher then today, and you end up with things like temperate rainforest at the south pole. Our real issue and the one we should be actively fighting against (as in actual in-the-street rebellion) is the absolute destruction of the environment. Chemical dumping, strip mining, industrial fishing, industrial agriculture, forever chemicals, microplastics, desertification and deforestation. These things are going to cause ecological collapse and kill almost everyone in the next generation or two, no question about it. We don’t have to worry about the heat getting us
Some parts of the world definitely do have to worry about the heat getting them. We’ve already seen wet bulb temperatures exceeding human habitability in places where millions live, and some recent studies have suggested that in the long run our metric for true human habitability may actually be too wide.
From where I am in the Philippines, it’s a huge fucking deal. We’ve been getting supertyphoons more frequently, more intense and abrupt storms, and if not that, regular temperatures more than 30C°, and our country being an archipelago, is humid AF. We’ve been getting more crop shortages, more droughts, even constant hours-long water interruptions in the big cities. Not to mention, the huge damages due to those typhoons.
You are right, all these other problems are also really bad. A lot of stuff is happening at the same time. It’s hard for me to read about all the shit that is going down and not be able to do anything impactful against these things.
Yeah its really tough and I try to limit my doomscrolling to the amount needed to stay informed. One huge problem with all this is that it effects the most privileged the least, and even the day to day things we can do to feel like we’re helping are only really available to those of us with that privilege. Like, I could say “start a vege garden, buy hemp and wool clothes, fix things in your workshop instead of buying new” but yeah, those aren’t really options most people can take unless we change the underlying structure of our society first. But then, why don’t we try changing society so we can then fix these issues? In the end, it’s all part of the class war, and we’re losing badly.
I’m living in a flat, this limits what I can do on my own. But I’m looking into getting some solar panels to put up on the balcony, coupled with a storage battery this should bring down the kW/h I need from an external provider.
In the far future I would like to move out of the city and start producing more of my own food, but prices are just to high right now.
Don’t be convinced that by lowering your impact you can make any change. Corporations want you to think that because if the masses think that they are the issue then they can continue what they are doing. The only way we can contribute is if we all get on the streets and protest. If millions of people get out on the streets for an indefinite amount of time, stop working, stop buying things, and demand change then we will get change.
If millions of people get out on the streets for an indefinite amount of time, stop working, stop buying things Sadly, this will never happen. People are too lazy, selfish and wrapped up in this ‘Gotta have cheap, sparkly plastic tat’ that they’ve seen on an ‘influencers’ Instagram or TikTok page.
Doesn’t stop the rest of us doing our bit though, to keep our conscience clear 😒
no, those peple will be just mowed down by automatic weapons fire until put in their place.
AI’s creators are taking care to ultimately obsolete as many people as possible. If you’re not a source of profit to a capitalist you’re disposable. If you’re a source of a cost then you’re to be disposed of as fast as possible. There are several billion people fleeing uninhabitable areas, they’ll gladly replace spoiled woke kids at their spots in factories and glass towers.
Sorry for bluntness but this is the reality in the minds of those who rule.
prices are just to high right now
They’re not likely to get lower.
Rabbits
Rabbits
Weather and even temperature are a bit of a red herring in all this. The extreme weather is caused by the rising temps and feedback loops, but what’s happening is just the heat trying to normalize.
More and more severe extreme weather events are a bad thing, aren’t they?
Environmental destruction is bad, yes. But climate change causes a host of major issues (adding ocean acidification to your list). Rising temperatures and extreme weather certainly will cause deaths and trouble long before the heat normalized, if that ever happens.
Bad weather is also expensive AF. There’s a reason reinsurers such as MunichRE aren’t on the climate change denial train: They see the writing on the wall of not being able to back the insurers you buy your flood insurance from at a price point anyone could afford. If the damages become too high on aggregate, things simply become uninsurable (hence also why states don’t require nuclear plants to have insurance but back them themselves but that’s another can of hidden subsidy worms).
People are talking about “but investment in climate-friendly technology costs money and we must think of the economy and prosperity” – motherfucker if you were thinking about prosperity and the economy you wouldn’t set us on a path towards cities being destroyed faster than we can build them. Broken window fallacy times a million.
Climate change is one of the biggest reasons I don’t want children. I can’t put blinders on and then feel zero responsibility for dragging them into a hopeless nightmare.
For my wife and I it was initially economic but now we would not have natural kids even if we bacame rich. might adopt if that happend. I am so glad we are not older because if we had been we might have had kids before realizing what a cluster everything is.
i have kids. i actively worry about how miserable their future may be. i try not to talk about this stuff to them much because i don’t want to scare them with it. i don’t think there’s anything i or they can do (except maybe vote).
i try not to talk about this stuff to them much because i don’t want to scare them with it.
IMO that’s exactly the opposite of what you should be doing. Frankly, what we need is for folks to be raising a generation of Greta Thunberg-types.
See also the bit about “weaponized hopelessness” in the Kurzgesagt video mentioned elsewhere in the thread.
Once my kids get older they will be taught science properly, and they will be fully aware of the seriousness of our situation.
I know people keep saying “I don’t want my kids to suffer” but the fact is the only way out of this is getting more younger people out there AND ENGAGED to make a difference. Your child could discover a breakthrough to solve the problem, who knows? More population isn’t the real problem, it’s what that population does and what corporations do in support of those choices.
I’d rather have taken the shot and failed instead of never trying at all (born and tried instead of never born).
More population isn’t the real problem
Having up to two kids per couple isn’t “more population” anyway. It takes 2.1 kids, on average, just to replace the older generation as they die off.
And you see the negative effects of this in many countries.
Don’t get me wrong, I totally get not having kids for financial reasons. I have kids myself, it’s been incredibly difficult. We’ve had to find the money and make ends meet, but at the end of the day we’ve been able to do it.
Your child could discover a breakthrough to solve the problem, who knows?
There’s no “breakthrough discovery” needed to solve the problem - we’ve known how to solve this problem for more than a hundred years now. It’s called “dismantling capitalism” - and it’s still our only way out.
The proletariat is treated by the bourgeoisie the same as a mob boss treats his underlings.
Just good enough to make them comfortable, but not too comfortable to elevate themselves or no longer need them. Comfortably uncomfortable.
I agree with you, but half the US believes certain people aren’t actually people, so we have a long way to go to dismantle the problems of our world economic structure. An armed reform will just lead to authoritarianism, always has.
I feel you. I have kids too. I fear for their future.
On the flipside, it’s also true that if we all simply give up and don’t have kids because the future looks so bleak, by definition we are admitting to a kind of psychic defeatism and epistemic hopelessness. Having kids is one of the best ways for regular people to have any hope of influencing the future.
Partner and I are child free and this is a big part of it.
It may not be as hopeless as you think: https://youtu.be/LxgMdjyw8uw
I really hope I’m wrong. Also, I love Kurzgesagt! Thanks!
Edit: I wrote that just before watching the video. I hadn’t even considered the idea of “weaponized hopelessness” that they talk about near the end, and how bleak thoughts and apathy ultimately help the fossil fuel industry. Good stuff!
Here’s something to consider about their videos though…
I appreciate the link, but Kurzgesagt is so anti-corporate so much of the time that I don’t think this is a significant issue. The above video of theirs is a great example. They’re not afraid to call out the man.
I’m sorry to be the one to break it to you, but Kurzgesagt just peddles capitalist greenwashing.
Capitalism will never fix the problem it has caused - never.
This is exactly why my partner and I are not having children.
Is it bizarre it doesn’t bother me that much about what happens to humanity at this point? Scientists have seen this happening decades ago and have implored companies and governments to make changes, only to land in deaf ears… so in a way, we saw this coming and didn’t care. We kinda had it coming. What I really worry for are the innocent animals, fauna, and flora that will definitely be affected by this. It upsets me even just a change in temperature can mean life or death for some species. I just hope we can still slow this down enough for them to be able to adapt too 😥
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I get where you’re coming from.
Zoom out a little though and it’s consequences are war, famine, and desecration.
If not the human suffering, consider eons long chains of biology that’ll be wiped off the face of the earth as climates shift quicker than their ability to adapt
Oh, for sure. There will be battles for resources that would probably dwindle exponentially. There will be loads of suffering throughout. I’ve worried so much for years and have made my own contributions to reduce my carbon footprint - recycled and reused as much as I can, not buying a car, among others - and it’s so exhausting to keep caring when the main perpetrators get to keep doing it abundantly relatively scot-free. At this point, it’s just easier for my own mental health to choose my battles and to choose which one to worry more and hopefully help in that aspect. This is one of the main reasons I’ve decided to become childfree; it’s just cruel to bring life to an uncertain world where the bad guys run rampant.
Choosing to have kids at this point is just choosing to live through Grave of the Fireflies. No thanks.
You could always berth an army of eco warriors?
Ha. That will be wiped off? We are actively watching a mass extinction occur. It’s not going to happen. It already is
I remember watching a clip from “The Network” where Jeff Daniel’s is interviewing an expert on climate change. It was when it was too late - and the expert lore or less said so.
It struck me as prescient - that despite all the warnings we’d be shocked when it came and it was irreversible.
Tbh it came sooner than I expected.
But hey the last article I read was a bunch of totally-relatable-super-wealthy-individuals who are just like me, asking why people aren’t having kids! Are you telling me the world is actually a hellscape and I’ve been lied to?
This is why I’m not having kids.
Same for me. That and being an irresponsible man-child who could probably never handle raising a child.
Yeah, I couldn’t tolerate bringing a child into a dying planet. Seems cruel if your following these things.
Life finds a way, and if your in a well developed nation with a strong military you will be among the last to feel the full impact of it.
I felt this way before, but decided screw it, if people can laugh and smile and love, even if it’s only on occasion, while they work in a hell hole like a electronics recycling dump in Africa, then it’s still worth it to exist. Just teach them to hunt and garden and stuff and give them the best chance you can.
Same for me. That and being an irresponsible man-child who could probably never handle raising a child.
I’m a severe weather meteorologist for a government org (non-US). This is alarmist nonsense. There is plenty of proper statistical evidence for climate change, it’s bizzare that the opinion of one irrelevant meteorologist is being voted up to the front page. Most of the weather forecasters I work with know very, very little about climate change (as do most posters on here who love to type in short, sharp sentences to make themselves seem authoritative).
If now isn’t the time to be alarmed, when is?
So when I see records being broken every year, year after year, I’m supposed to be like “This is fine”.
Got it.
Work on your reading comprehension mate
Take that unhelpful response back to Reddit
Arguably, your post didn’t add that much to the conversation to start with
And your point is? Are you arguing that alarmism isn’t called for? That everything is fine and we shouldn’t try to mitigate emissions?
Or are you simply arguing that most weather forecasters know very little about climate change so… I guess I don’t know what?
Again, what’s your point? Are you just flexing or do you actually have something useful to contribute to the conversation?
Read my comment again. There is plenty of good statistical evidence for climate change, and if something is going to be bumped up to the front page it should be from a reputable source. Not “random nobody weather forecaster says thing”
If you think there should be a climate change article from a more reputable source on the front page, then post one instead of uselessly complaining. Put up or shut up.
I think every article that gets people to talk about the problems we are collectively facing is doing it‘s job.
For some people this might be the trigger to have a deeper look into the topic, because a more relatable person for them is pointing out a problem.
Please share with us your vast knowledge on this subject.
The world failed to take action against climate change, now they’re going to be late to take action to the adaptation of civilization to a dangerous environment. Too late to stop climate change, it’s time to think about adapting to a new environment.
Humanity can certainly adept to climate change, but these changes will also cause a lot of people to relocate. I’m not sure if society, in the current political climate, can adapt quick enough to be able to deal with the influx of possible climate refugees.
… and with unwanted or simply too many refugees comes conflict, both at home and abroad. Those who are slow to join the Great Climate Migration toward less- or differently-affected areas will struggle more over time, and there will be increasing wealth inequality as a result. It’s a difficult picture of a future to which unfortunately many people seem oblivious.
Another thing that came to mind is, that essential industries will also have to adapt. Medicine manufacturing for the world takes place mainly in India, and they are already in a crisis due to other problems.
Chip manufacturing will also become problematic in many regions, either due to weather changes or due to water shortages.
When even Florida is telling you shit is fucked… Shit is FUCKED
Almost ten years ago, I was in Miami for a conference, and they were pumping water out of the streets back then. I would guess it’s not gotten any better.
Here in Michigan we’ve been getting hammered with forest fire smoke all summer. It sucks because we only get a few months of nice weather as it is and we can’t spend most days outside if we value our lungs. I need my lungs for precious cannabis smoke, not forest fire smoke!
Yeah, I’m in Michigan and I really don’t like this year. First, we have a dry spring. Then a hot, dry summer up until a day or so ago. Now wildfire smoke. It’s like each day is worse this year. I’ll be happy when fires are stopped.
I need my lungs for precious cannabis smoke, not forest fire smoke!
You ever look into dry vaporizers? The old model of EQ is a pretty good value esp. on sale.
Unfortunately I normally like to run mine off of solar under our pavilion and keep the heat (esp. pre-heat stage) outside. Although I still have AVB saved up and I run mine at 175C tops (and de-chamber it or cool-down quickly) so it doesn’t have a bad taste.
That aside, I’m in Michigan too. Not north enough to have lower summer heat but also apparently not south enough to avoid Canada’s smoke. Though I am much more likely to die in a heat wave because I cannot sweat significantly.
yeah we got it in chicago but you guys seem situated where you get it no matter which way it goes were as we only got it when it went west
To be fair (and the article does sort of mention this) we are in an El Nino year, so of course things are heating up terrifying fast. Thing is, El Ninos are impacted by climate change, so… This isn’t a cop-out, it’s just this is kind of as bad as it can get (for now) which is reassuring (hopefully?)
I would disagree: Since we’re still in the early phase of a new (super? As is being discussed) El Niño — later this year and likely next 1-2 year/s will probably be worse.
It really depends on so many things. AR6 was a depressing read, but we do still have different pathways, people are responding to the crisis. I have the privilege of seeing first hand the commitments being made by some rather large emitters and the actions being undertaken to meet those commitments. I guess what I’m saying is, we can still hope. We shouldn’t give-up and resign ourselves to this fate.
On the other hand we literally have a CEO of a gas and oil company chairing COP28 next year… So… Yeah…
We need a system to hold those in power responsible for their promises and inactions.
I don’t trust corporations, the only thing important for them is the balance sheet, they will always take the easy and cheap way. There should be a world wide tax on all companies which decreases with the companies sustainability. Hit corporations where it hurts them: money.
The system is violence. Threat of violence is the only thing that would ever keep in check politicians and big business. Voting declares the people’s will, but it is only backed by the threat of violence. Otherwise the people may say their will but the elite will not care. Hopefully things will become desperate enough for the violence to occur before it’s too late
While I understand where you’re coming from, do keep in mind that the same people that can afford to keep chugging along on the same path with only the bottom line in their crosshairs also have enough influence to make sure that once violence starts it gets promptly redirected. And masses of upset people aren’t really coherent enough to keep a single goal in mind.
Hell, if you’ve ever tried to get 12 hungry people to eat lunch at the same time and decide on a place to get it from, you’ll shortly understand what the phrase ‘herding cats’ means. Add to that a random 13th person that just pops up, whose neighbour owns the new lunch place on the corner and just ‘offers other options’ and you can quickly see how getting lunch becomes an exercise in futility.
And if smoke, mirrors and redirection don’t work, civil violence is used as a pretext to intervene with force against protestors.
I honestly don’t believe another French revolution is capable of happening again, ever.
The answer could be voting with your wallet, but remember the ‘no preorders’ crowds? See my point about herding cats.
Unfortunately the attention of the masses is neatly divided between social media, news about impending economical doom and working for just enough money to survive. To me it seems that most people are already fighting for their survival in their own microcosm.
This is the article that the linked article is about. I’m 99% sure Europeans aren’t going to be able to access that link without a VPN because a lot of the local news sites refuse to comply with EU laws .
Thanks, here is the archived article which is also available in the EU: https://archive.is/nBxrS
