- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- health
- [email protected]
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Only as valued as their productivity.
That is a big part of it.
When the first question you are asked for decades when meeting someone is “What do you do?” it gets ingrained that your only value is what you do.
Add in the fact that men hitting that age now have basically never received any positive reaction for expressing any emotions or vulnerability and usually outright been mocked for doing so and it is no wonder they are are hard group to reach…
And they’re all totally socially isolated to boot. How the hell do you make friends as an adult?
And where do you even go? Civic centers, bowling alleys etc are dead. Moderate churches are disappearing. Car centric everything means if you have a disability or not much money you’re screwed.
As with most things, the hardest part is the first step: you have to find a community to join. It can be anything, but senior centers are greater resources for older people that they unfortunately don’t take enough advantage of. My parents found a seniors’ program at a local college and started taking classes with people their age, which created an entirely new friend group for them. You just have to find a group of people doing something you enjoy and the relationships will likely form without much effort after that, provided you don’t have crippling social anxiety or something else that makes social interaction difficult. Point is, once you get the ball rolling, momentum takes over; the hardest part is getting it (i.e. yourself) moving.
Left my country and the coldness (not just the weather) was such a huge part of it.
You need a group that’s small enough to allow for personal interaction, but large enough that there’s enough people that you’re more likely to find ones you click with. It’s easy enough to do online - a lot of people meet in games like MMOs and on social media sites. You already share a common interest, and if you click you can expand your friendship outside of that immediate context. Even within the context, you get friends and community.
Real world kinds of places can include things like a men’s choir or a community theater group if that’s your demographic. Those can lead to Saturday brunches and such. There’s also places like dog parks where you can hang out with other dog owners, and sports groups like bowling and ultimate that have various levels of serious vs fun. There’s also a lot of volunteering opportunities.
Some groups can be cliques that can make it harder to get into at first, and just like in dating you can’t let a negative experience turn you off from the whole scene.
I’ve seen a few people complain about the question “what do you do?” over the years, and I think it’s pretty telling that most people seem to interpret that as “what is your job?”
For me, my job is a footnote to my life, it’s not something I’m overly proud of, if I woke up rich tomorrow I’d never go back to work, it’s just how I fund the rest of my lifestyle.
I tend to answer that question with my hobbies, things I’m working on, trips I’m planning, etc
Sort of a double-edged sword is that I do actually work a pretty interesting job that people really want to hear about when they find out what I do, and I’d really rather talk about the other things I do. Probably the one thing I miss about when I was a random schmuck working a shitty warehouse job, I didn’t have to talk about work outside of work as much
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How people make money is often the most boring thing about them. A whole lot of the prestigious jobs that make big bucks that people like to brag about boil down to a whole lot of paperwork, emails, and phone calls, I don’t want to hear about that, that’s the kind of stuff I make any excuse I can to avoid thinking about.
If they’re making big bucks though, hopefully they’re doing something cool with it, they can tell me about their ski trips, or yacht trips to private islands or whatever rich people do these days, that’s what I want to hear about it. If the only thing they can come up with to say that they “do” is a job doing the boring shit I try to avoid, that’s their own fault. They’re free to judge me, I’m judging them right back, they’re wasting their lives.
And most of the time my current job is far more interesting than theirs anyway even if it’s not as prestigious.
It sounds like you’re hanging out with the wrong kind of people if they are asking that question to judge you. I find most people ask that question as its a baseline question on getting to know someone, so hobbies would be a perfectly acceptable response
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911 dispatch
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Right? Don’t get me wrong, I have some cool stories, and I don’t blame people for being more interested in those than tales from my hiking trips or D&D game or hearing about my latest attempt at woodworking or whatever, but I’d rather talk about those.
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r D&D game
Mix it up sometimes!
“HELP I’m being robbed!”
“Roll for initiative.”
That’s been one of the culture shifts I’ve noticed moving to the EU. People are a lot less likely to lead with that question here than in the US.
When the first question you are asked for decades when meeting someone is “What do you do?” it gets ingrained that your only value is what you do.
Exactly. I stopped asking that question because I don’t wanna be asked that anymore. I ask other guys what their hobby(ies) is(are).
I’ve been saying “it’s private” for years.
I’ve always taken that question as a form of trying to find common interests. If you answered it with your hobbies, it would fulfill the same purpose which is getting conversation started.
If you asked me “well, how much do you make?” that would be way more pointed towards “productivity”.
Or your net worth if you’ve made enough for long enough, or made the good choice to be born to rich parents.
It’s as direct as “what do you do.” You can say “he’s worth eight figures” or similar.
I still cant remember the last compliment I got that wasn’t about my work.
I like your username. This has figured it out.
I can partially speak to this from the inside so to speak. I’m not that old, but I had a heart attack and open heart surgery at the end of 2018 and complication after complication through all of 2019.
All of which puts me at greater risk for depression and suicide.
Just when I was medically cleared to go back to the office, we shut down for covid and I haven’t been back since.
I started looking for a support group for heart attack/open heart surgery survivors and it was far, far more difficult than I thought.
Plenty of support groups for other conditions, plenty of support groups that advertised as women only, I really couldn’t find anything that accepted men.
I didn’t need a “mens only” group, just someone who wouldn’t turn me away due to my gender.
I finally reached out to one of the women’s groups going “Look, I know I’m not your demo, but I hope you can direct me…”
They set me up with a national org, https://mendedhearts.org/ who had an unbranded chapter in my area and I got to talk to people in my situation, it helped, but it was not easy getting there.
There were other problems during lockdown, I became a victim of domestic violence, against which I was helpless due to my medical conditions.
Same problem. No real support for male victims of domestic violence either.
The police directed me to various mental health agencies, for both myself and my wife, but this was peak covid and NONE of them called us back. NONE. Not even a “sorry, we aren’t taking new patients”, they just completely ghosted us.
My wife finally found a therapist who would “see” her remotely, which was a condition of our staying married, and things did get better.
But after all that… it was really dumb luck. Other folks aren’t as lucky.
I just want to say something about the mental health practitioners not calling back:
It’s the worst part about getting help is how hard it is to find. This is true for all folks, too. So, I just want to provide a quick how-to because I’ve been through that particular step 5 or 6 times and it’s only slightly less annoying when you know the best steps to take. Not saying you didn’t do all these things, and not saying you shoulda known if you didn’t, but this is for anyone reading this. This also only applies for US. Idk how other countries do it, but it’s probably better than this.
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UnInsured? Skip step 2 and 3
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Find your health care card. Call the number(s) on the back. Reach a human (never easy). Ask for a list of mental healthcare practitioners that are within x miles of CITY. use biggest nearby city for best results. Or just say STATE if your state is small enough. Regional accuracies may vary.
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Go to psychologytoday.com or google around for another mental healthcare finder. Use the list you got from your insurer.
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Search by your conditions at a site line psychologytoday.com. curate as long a list of options as you can for your area.
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Mass email to all of them. “Hi. I’m dealing with SYMPTOMS, I have this healthcare. I was wondering if you were accepting new patients.” Send.
Within 1 week, if you have no response, re email all of them and say you got no response and you’re really trying to find help, and if they could give you recommendations, that would be great.
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Setup appointments. First sessions suck. And it takes a solid 3 sessions to know for sure if someone is a possible fit.
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If they’re not a good fit, you go back to your list. This repetition is exhausting, especially because when you finally reach out for help, you’re at a breaking point, and all of this feels like too much already. Keep going.
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Hopefully you find someone that’s a good fit through this process. It sucks. Hang in there.
Yeah, the Psychology Today site was the one the police directed me to and the one who ghosted us the hardest. :(
Therapist Den or Inclusive Therapists are much better. Mental Health Match is not bad either.
This is all great advice. The issue I in particular have and a lot of other guys probably do as well is that I only ever get like 4-5 sessions with any therapist before they basically start booting me out the door. The issue is that per society I’m perfectly functional. I work, I pay my bills, I take good enough care of myself that I function. I’ve never attempted suicide (although stats show most guys only attempt is the sucsessful one.) I’m a low priority. I’m not a statistically high suicide risk. I’m not at risk of becomming homeless. I’m not being abused or abusing drugs. I’m already receiving medication that kind of works. All in all my situation is not dire so naturally the people who are in a more dire situation get prioritized and there are a lot of people in more dire situations.
I have enough of a medical background to know how triage works and I get that that is what is happening but it still just sucks. No place will actually keep me on long enough for me to improve at all and even if I do start to improve I get dumped at the first slightest sign of improvement. So I’m just stuck perpetually “functioning”. It’s kind of like the wellfare cliff. I’m doing just well enough that there’s no long term help available.
I read your response with interest and empathy. However, I feel it’s important to address a few misconceptions for the benefit of anyone reading this.
Firstly, the idea that mental health practitioners prioritize patients based on their societal functionality or perceived risk level is not accurate. In the United States, mental health professionals are bound by ethical guidelines that stress the importance of client-centered care. This means that treatment decisions should be based on individual needs and therapeutic goals, not on a patient’s external life circumstances like job stability or living situation.
If you’ve repeatedly been discharged from therapy after only a few sessions, this is concerning and not a standard practice in mental health care. Therapists are trained to provide ongoing support, and decisions to conclude therapy should ideally be mutual and based on progress and goals, not on arbitrary measures of functionality.
Also, the concept of ‘triage’ in mental health doesn’t operate the same way as in emergency medical settings. While it’s true that individuals in crisis might need immediate attention, this doesn’t mean others are deemed ‘low priority.’ Everyone’s mental health needs are important, and a good therapist understands this.
If you or anyone else feels that your therapy is being prematurely concluded or that you’re not getting the depth of support you need, it’s crucial to bring this up with your therapist. If the issue persists, seeking a second opinion or a different therapist might be necessary. It’s important to find a therapist who resonates with your needs and provides the required level of support.
While your experiences are valid and unfortunate, they are not reflective of standard mental health practice. I encourage anyone seeking therapy to advocate for their needs and keep searching for a therapist who offers the right support and commitment.
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Men can help each other and SHOULD help each other. Women’s groups exist because women recognized issues and organized themselves to help each other. This is why women’s DV shelters exist, for example. (BTW, women’s DV shelters may help men in need, there are arrangements that can be made to help but keep women and kids separated for their mental health and safety.)
Men can do the same thing and should do the same thing. Perhaps growing that sense of community and learning how to help others will build the social support that men seem to be lacking. But you men have to do it collectively yourself - no one “somebody” will do it for you.
I hope you are doing better these days. (Edit): I do not expect you personally to be able to do the hard work of organizing a DV shelter. This is why it is so important for men as a class to work together to support each other too.
I seriously appreciate all of the points you’re making, but the idea of men and women as cohesive social units here might not be realistic or helpful, especially for issues affecting sub-groups. Sometimes the people actively working to improve something are fighting an uphill battle against societal expectations and/or larger portions of their own group who don’t recognize it as an issue. I’m sure you know that doesn’t make it any less valid.
thats good and all but am I the only man who can pretty much only connect with women, on an emotional level?
I’ve had some good male friends but expecting them to understand or relate is very difficult.
It’s not especially surprising to hear. Women are raised their whole lives to play emotional support with everyone.
Which is also why all their friends invariably turn into unrequited love: they’re just treating their guy friend identically to how they treat their women friends, but the guy’s never received the basic decency of consideration unless it was romantic.
But men are trained to problem solve whatever they can’t stuff down and ignore, aren’t they? And from what I’ve heard, hanging out generally prohibits anything emotionally heavy?
They’re logically in the same position you are. I would find it hard to believe at least one person among them doesn’t relate. It would make more sense to me to wonder if they just…have no idea how to be supportive. A distressing number of grown men can’t even put a name to their feelings beyond “sad” and “pissed off.”
What do they do if you just…tell them you feel like that? A friend who doesn’t care to address what you’re going through or to rectify that kind of relationship disconnect when it’s brought up isn’t really a friend. Maybe an acquaintance at best.
What do they do if you just…tell them you feel like that?
They are either dismissive or don’t understand. I often have to educate them on topics of mental health which is tiring after years without support of my own.
In my experience as the female friend, no, this is common. However, perhaps you should ask yourself why this is. Men as a whole class in our society do not seem able to connect emotionally and empathically with each other because they haven’t learned how to. You can (as a group) learn to do this, but you collectively need to decide you want to and to act.
You can (as a group) learn to do this, but you collectively need to decide you want to and to act.
Let me just bring it up at the next Boys Club meeting /s
So become the founding member of the Boys Club. It’s not necessarily going to be easy, but if it’s worth doing, you should stick to it.
Edit: I was the leader of a labor organizing group for a year or so until it was shut down by state shenanigans… So I do have experience in building a group and solidarity.
Women’s groups exist because women recognized issues and organized themselves to help each other. This is why women’s DV shelters exist, for example.
Isn’t this essentially victim blaming and overlooks the very real societal issues and trama that hinders men getting support? You know funding, not being believed by both sexes, lack of awareness, society just not generally caring about men, etc
No. Women for a very long time were not considered fully realized humans in a legal sense. Hell, women couldn’t have bank accounts separate from their husbands until the 1970s.
My point is that women were victims and not even fully recognized legal entities and they STILL decided they wanted to help themselves; they organized themselves; and made progress on women’s issues.
If “society” doesn’t believe men or care about men, well, who is it with those negative attitudes? Society is about 50% women and 50% men. Seems to me a lot of men are not believing men as well as any women not believing men, given the current landscape. You belong to one of those groups. As a member of your class, you can be energized to make change.
No one is going to be an advocate for you (or your class) as much as you yourself. That’s not victim blaming, that is telling you how to actualize change in the world.
My argument wasn’t against advocacy. I was essentially saying that this isn’t a problem that is only solved by men. It’s a societal issue that men and women have to come together on. Especially since domestic violence on men is often different compared to women
Maybe I’m just being overly sensitive but I find the wording of your original post is more detrimental. Men have to do something if they want help! No we all have to do something.
Women care. I care about this poor man’s story (edit: and women’s groups helped out OP to find a group that he could join). But we have our hands full with our own issues. And partnering with good men is part of the success of women’s efforts to help themselves.
It will be the same way for men’s issues, but men need to pick up that torch and lead. Women will help but men need to drive. For example, men’s DV shelter services could probably most easily be added by partnering with a women’s DV shelter so that there is men’s aid in place (though less likely to be needed, depending on location and population density) so it may look a bit different. Men could reach out and drive the development of a partnership program.
I think a fundamental difference to the way that men (as a class) and women (as a class) think about these issues is that men expect men and women to care; but women expect nothing from men. This seems to be a driver for our differences in opinion/perspective.
But we have our hands full with our own issues.
It is your issue. Your brother, cousin, friend, someone you care about could be going through the same thing. Imagine if this line of thinking was applied to women’s sufferage?
think a fundamental difference to the way that men (as a class) and women (as a class) think about these issues is that men expect men and women to care; but women expect nothing from men. This seems to be a driver for our differences in opinion/perspective.
That makes no sense. Without gaining support from the other side you get no resolution. Especially when the other Side is literally your abuser. I don’t expect shit from white ppl and that’s literally the problem. WE NEED THEM TO CARE. Society doesn’t change unless everyone cares about the issue at hand. In no shape or form does systemic racism end without white ppl
It will be the same way for men’s issues, but men need to pick up that torch and lead.
I understand what your saying but the overall comment shows the real problem. We are harsher and less caring about the issue in general. Imagine any of this rhetoric was used for issues like black women and their sky high mortality rate during childbirth, lack of attention towards Asian hate crimes, ignoring of natives women murders, or police brutality towards black men. That we have other things to deal with so it’s all on them to fix it. That if things aren’t being changed that’s its their own fault.
Imagine any of this rhetoric was used for issues like black women and their sky high mortality rate during childbirth, lack of attention towards Asian hate crimes, ignoring of natives women murders, or police brutality towards black men. That we have other things to deal with so it’s all on them to fix it.
Historically speaking, it is.
I think ideally, waiting around for The Correct Group to fix a known problem is insane and pointless as fuck. And you’re right, both on paper and with a morality any non-sociopathic 2nd grader should be able to manage.
I also think there’s a substantial bitterness among women that does deserve to be there. We’ve been left to fix every problem we have more or less by ourselves, and had to pay dearly for every inch of it. I say, as we visibly stand here losing ground again.
Women weren’t allowed to vote? Couldn’t serve in the army? Hold jobs? We protested til we could.
We had no public bathrooms, forcibly leasing us to a set vicinity from our own home? We made two associations about it, men destroyed a model bathroom by driving a cab through it, and the idea only finally took hold because of cholera.
Couldn’t divorce? We murdered abusive husbands we couldn’t escape and continued lobbying. Same with controlling our own money.
Couldn’t wear pants? We wore them anyway, often in the face of sustained verbal and physical abuse, until men just got used to us wearing different clothing.
Every women’s scholarship was left behind by a woman who didn’t get a scholarship, found success anyway, and left a ladder for others who needed it. Men aren’t doing this nearly as often for reasons I don’t understand.
The first battered women’s shelters in Japan? Started by women. Australia, Germany, Italy? The UK and the US? All women. The first in the US was a random storefront with an apartment in the back that a handful of women repurposed. It was initially run entirely on donations they got from selling crafts. The police didn’t appreciate it and rarely if ever lifted a hand except to show a dangerous amount of indifference to threats.
On its face, it’s venomous to see a problem and tell someone to just deal with it themselves. In reality, we have done all of this ourselves, always with significant pushback.
This is where we are when the other half of the planet swears up and down they can’t do exactly the thing that we did. Yes, you can. If you need shelters, so did we and we opened them. We were forced to stand up for ourselves if we wanted anything fixed, and we did so.
Now, whenever this comes up, men want us to fix their problems for them too. Especially egregious since a lot of times, they’re the ones society takes at all seriously. They’re the ones with the funding, not that that was ever a valid excuse for us. We can barely get y’all to treat us like fellow humans if we stick y’all in prison for it and even that isn’t helping, but your work is still being laid at our feet.
Every time we so much as suggest men compliment and support each other, they snap straight to whining and explaining it would really feel better if it came from women and what if someone thinks they’re gay. THEN BE GAY.
I don’t think I can begin to describe how frustrating that is, and the kind of bitter anger that it breeds. Nothing is stopping you.
I’ll admit, as dismissive as it looks, part of me was reading the head comment and going, “so why don’t you just…start a group? There’s clearly a niche, surely they aren’t the only one in that entire state going through this.”
We care. Sometimes brutally. It’s not like we can’t relate to what that’s like, you know? But you’re not, as a class, less capable than we were. It isn’t whether we morally should, it’s the constant allegation that men’s problems MUST belong to us and no one else. Along with also our problems, also usually courtesy of the same men.
This was never the kind of thread to be writing shit like this. Certainly not suicide, I have a military buddy who’s the last one standing out of his entire squad, that all committed suicide, and he won’t goddamn go to therapy.
But the experience, as always, of begging men to do anything at all to fix any issue they are having is. Maddening.
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I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2017 and it’s shit.
The pain that comes with that is just phenomenal and there’s no good treatment for it either. :(
I’m in a good place now, but I take a lot of meds (some of which are literal poison) and a very expensive infusion. I have excellent insurance, but six years to get back to being able to move has been fun.
I hope you have great holidays this year and better things to come next one.
I hope you’re doing better physically and mentally kind sir. Thanks for sharing your story.
Societies that have been created around the concept that your life is worth as much as the value you produce. People are deeply ingrained with the idea that if you aren’t part of the production line then you may as well die and get out the way for the next cog.
To this day, this mentality still benefits the higher up in those societies.
That’s not just an idea - its physical reality. You can’t get your physical needs met in old age if you didn’t win the lotto. Suicide is the retirement plan for most of us non-boomers.
They’re gonna be shocked when they see the generation without kids and with unstable retirement funds gets too old to care for themselves. Suicide rates are going to explode.
Also aside from retirement. I see…a lot of people with campers, “homeless” now. Parking their RVs on sides of roads, struggling cause they fell behind on everything HARD. The rates might go up earlier.
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“They” would be our overlords. The masters of the system into which we are born. The wealthy and powerful. And I suppose they will find out just how little in life they can handle without us workers.
Don’t worry, climate collapse of all ecosystems is our retirement in like 3 years or something like that
Somewhat related, but I learned today that Phil Shea who worked as the prop master on the office, died by suicide earlier this week, he was 62. He had a family and friends who loved him, but clearly wasn’t speaking to anyone about what was really going on in his head. Older guys tend to be more closed up about speaking up
Cuz society mocks and looks down upon men who open up and talk. There’s very little room for error being a man.
Every time I’ve opened up it’s been ignored at best and ridiculed at worst. I just stopped.
Thankfully I have a spouse I can open up to 100% with and will make me feel heard and supported. When I’m at a boiling point, she’s good at helping me to ease up. If it wasn’t for her though, my mental health would be in the gutter.
Yeah I know the feeling.
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Thankfully this is changing… I see a clear divide in attitudes in my workplace between the boomers nearing retirement, and the new kids (Gen Z) that are coming in fresh out of college. And all I can say is: good riddance. Boomers are fucking toxic, but the Gen Z kids see right through that bullshit.
“But this generation is different!”
Give me a break.
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As an old guy (well old enough) I understand the sentiment. We are the providers, the protectors, the ones that aren’t supposed to show weaknesses or vulnerabilities. As an older gen x’er we weren’t taught how to talk about our feelings. It can be tough for sure.
For those who don’t know, this is the other end of the toxic masculinity spectrum - the cultural idea that there is a certain way men are supposed to act, and we’re perceived as weak or effeminate if we don’t. We don’t allow (or aren’t allowed to) ourselves to express our emotions in a healthy way, so we bottle them up until the stress either kills us, or we kill ourselves.
Phil Shea
Oh shit actually a name I’ve heard that means something to me. That’s no fun news :(
My dad died in his late 80s of Parkinson’s. For at least a decade before his diagnosis he’d tell me that everyday when he woke up, he’d lost another piece of himself. He went from an active man in his early to mid 70s–he rode his bike 25 miles a day and weight lifted–to a shadow of himself very quickly.
It was tough to watch, and so much tougher for him facing loss after loss of his abilities. He spoke several times of “releasing” himself, but ultimately decided not to do it.
We are living longer, but that isn’t always to our benefit.
Sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like a good guy. I wish we all had a better and easier way to die with dignity and on our own terms.
Watching my Dad decline in his later years was really tough, the man I had known my entire life just fell apart month by month, week by week until he was just a shell of a person. I don’t know when it happened, but the person I had known my whole life had already died before his body died later on. Seeing what I saw over the course of years as he declined, I would’ve completely understood if he had committed suicide well before. It would’ve been shocking and hard to take, but if he realized what was happening, felt himself slipping away, I wonder if he hadn’t at least considered it. He retired a year before he died at 63 and never really got to enjoy his retirement.
The capitalists tortured your father out of your father month by month, week by week, until only a shell, no longer productive, was cut loose to die as it was no longer useful to them.
That is what the capitalists do to us while they live large and pat themselves on the back for it.
Are you deadass using suicide as a stage to spew agitprop? You should feel ashamed of yourself, this is beyond ghoulish.
Well when suicide rates are at an 80-year high, while the lack of a social safety net continues to deny people the dignity of life after work… well it’s not a huge leap.
It wrong to say it’s capitalism, since every avenue of governance is plagued by the same monopolization of power and wealth, but when capitalism is held as closely by some as their religious beliefs; and these same beliefs are manipulated so as to convince people to vote against the construction of said social safety net… well. again, not a huge leap.
I don’t disagree with you, I just find using death and suicide as an opportunity to shill one’s political ideology unasked to be opportunistic and utterly disgusting.
Don’t talk about why it’s happening or what you think might help reduce it, just be sad that it is happening. We’ll talk about it once it has stopped happening and everyone has stopped being sad about it.
that’s fair
Ah yes, never “the time” to talk about this work camp of a supposed society, especially when the suffering of its victims is brought up.
I’m ghoulish to cope with the absurdity of what we are coerced into doing to ourselves. Others cope by pretending there’s nothing wrong, even that they love propagating this exploitation/value maximization trap.
I’m not using this person’s father as an agitprop. That would imply I have reasonable hope for change for the better in our times. There is not. Too far captured, too far propagandized. That said, one thing I won’t let them have is my silent, obedient consent as they toss their dead capital batteries without a thought after spending most of their very real lives in service to running up their ego scores that have no meaningful impact on their already gluttonous lifestyles. If that makes me the bastard in your eyes, so be it, I’m a bastard if it makes you happy. I’m the bad guy.
So say we all.
Twist and turn and justify it to yourself all day, you’re opportunistically shilling your ideology unasked in a thread about suicide, and it’s revolting.
I find it more disgusting that you’re using the tragedy to try to silence any talk about improving things. Or acting like political ideology is just some hobby or niche interest rather than something that has a significant impact on us all and can drive some to suicide.
Ok. If it makes you happy, I’m an unmasked, opportunistically revolting shill too.
It’s also true.
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Hear, hear.
It’s been studied. Books have been written about alienation and isolation in capitalism.
Saw this happen to my both my grandfathers, one died around 60 and the other around 80. Even the 60yo one, watching the mental decline was heartbreaking. Being left with literally nothing, losing your memories while you lose control of other parts of your body, these men were long gone long before they passed. Nothing in this world scares me like aging with dimentia does. You literally lose the person, sometimes completely, before they even die and you gotta sit there and be strong for them knowing that the slow desent will come for you too, and thats only if you’re lucky enough to get that old. It’s just not fair for anyone and there’s scarcely any dignity in death.
that is not normal old age stuff mate that sounds like cancer
I feel myself heading this way. So much of my identity is wrapped up in what I can do and service I can provide. When my body fails, and it’s starting to slow down even now, what will my identity be?
All I can suggest is to start decoupling your identity from your productivity or what you think you are expected to do. Figure out what really matters to you, and what you would regret doing or not doing when you’re elderly.
I’ve gone through a bunch of crap in the past few years, and part of getting back to normal life has been letting go of things that don’t really matter to me (anxiety doesn’t always make this easy, of course) and figuring out what matters most and how I can best enjoy this weird temporary thing we call life.
It will be what you make it. In retirement, my great aunt and uncle ran the ethnic dance scene for their city and volunteered. Even in a wheelchair you can teach and give your time to causes you find worthy!
jesus at 63?? uhm that is not Normal old age man unless your 80 and that was in 45 or some such
I’m sorry for your loss friend, the hardest thing in my life is watching my loved ones slip away before they’re gone.
Glad to see an article about suicide focused specifically on men for a change. I wish it went into more specific detail about the societal treatment of men and how it fuels their mental health issues, but some attention is better than nothing.
I’ve seen a lot of those lately. At least in Polish media it was a very popular topic recently. Of course still nothing is being done to address. Then again, what are you going to do? In the end it’s really men doing it to themselves. How are you going to change what men think about what ‘being a men’ means?
I’ll probably kill myself at that age too
Shit I’m 40 and regret not having done so.
do you want to hang out and suck each other’s dicks? I don’t even care anymore
Can I cum too?
yea of course bro
Lemon party detected.
Lmao. No, thank you, but I appreciate the offer.
See, you do still have the will to fight!
Damn that’s some therapy check mate shit yo
Going the drugs and Vegas route while be chased by 50 US marshals with fireworks shooting out of a stolen sports car in the desert. I Want the grand kids to think I was legendary and not a person stuck in a tomb of a body.
I’ve thought about it plenty in the last few years. The only things really stopping me is the idea of hurting my still-living mother, and my kids.
The founding culture of individualism in America have led to excessive isolation. The atomisation divided communities and separated people from one another. And with globalisation many people have been left out. Which in turn led to many atomised inviduals seeking desperately for any socialisation, many of whom turned to Trump.
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Honestly, that’s probably the healthiest way for people in that profession to approach it.
Agreed, but it’s unfortunate, because I feel that clinical detachment can come across as insincerity in a therapeutic context. It can promote a feeling of cynicism.
I would also probably off myself at this age, seeing all the fuck ups that my generation did Holy shit.
What a waste if they don’t take someone horrible with them.
what the actual fuck is wrong with you
Yet America still wants to control the world.
I am not from the US but similar stories and stats exist for my own country.
If you think any country is handling this better, please tell us which one it is.
(and, of course, back it up with solid data…)
You should be ashamed of yourself, it’s an article about the horror that is suicide and you try and turn it into your personal beef with America. Shut the fuck up.
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What the fuck are you talking about
