…what criminal record? Weed charges? Drug charges as a kid? That’s concerning to you?
He was acquitted of murder. So - not guilty of murder. 30 years ago.
The sexual abuse case against him was dropped. Completely dropped by the accuser. We won’t know what happened. Maybe something did - but you can’t make baseless character accusations or assumptions. Case was dropped, that’s the end of it.
I’m not a snoop boot licker or anything, but I don’t really think he’s a bad person, given his criminal record and all.
I don’t agree with this attitude. I’m wary of branding him a rapist or sexual assaulter without any deeper research, but a dropped case is not the end of things, morally speaking, in just about any serious offense.
Okay, but is it morally right to continually pursue someone who says they are innocent and that it didn’t happen? There wasn’t sufficient evidence to prove anything? I’m not saying the woman did this for money and attention - but what if she did? Otherside of the coin. But you are right, we can’t brand him a rapist and we can’t say she wasn’t raped, the only thing you can say is that the case was dropped and he’s not being charged with rape.
Edit - I don’t like my argument. I don’t want to assume someone made up being raped, but I also don’t have any knowledge on what happened. It’s a shitty opaque situation and I hope that no one was raped and no one is lying - but I know they can’t both be true.
I feel that questioning his appearance because of those accusations is exactly that.
I haven’t questioned his appearance at the games. I’m just trying not to come off as saying that the accusations are definitely false and we should completely ignore anyone who hasn’t been convicted, especially since I didn’t follow the details of the case closely when it happened.
How about don’t brand the dude as shit and just let him live like a regular ass guy? Someone said he did something years ago, and it was withdrawn. Let it go.
Accepting the outcome of the legal system is the basis for a liveable society. If everyone just does their own vigilante justice bullshit in their head, then we can just abolish the entire system of law.
Accepting the outcome of the legal system with regards to the monopoly on force is the basis for a livable society. Personal moral judgements are not suspended by the existence of a legal system; only the violence or coercive action that would accompany in a society without an institution with a monopoly on legitimate force.
Innocent until proven guilty is a mantra used when determining if the state can deploy violence and curtail your liberties, e.g. by physically confining you in a prison. It’s not a universally applicable rule, and isn’t what’s used in civil court, where judgements are made on balance of probabilities (i.e. if they think the evidence suggests it’s more likely that you’ve done something than that you haven’t) and isn’t what’s used in contexts other than the legal system, like when a duty of care exists - generally it wouldn’t be enough to say someone was safe to work with children if they were only probably not a paedophile.
It’s my understanding that there isn’t enough knowledge available to the public to exhonorate Snoop Dogg, and without that, he’s left looking sketchier than he was before. One dropped allegation could be nothing, or the start of a pattern, and that’s different to there being no allegations at all.
A guilty until proven innocent attitude within society is what breeds fertile ground for abusers. If you can make up whatever shit you want about someone and be believed with no evidence, then abusers will simply accuse their victims as a method of violence and control. If you want to attack abusers and not victims, you need a commitment to the truth.
Look at Depp and Heard. Near as I can tell, they’re both abusers, and they’re both dragging each other’s names through the mud because that’s how abusers do violence. They’re using public opinion as a weapon of abuse. That’s why public opinion must be made resistant to weaponisation without due cause.
Snoops so hard, yeah? Like how he wears goofy costumes to all his grandkids birthday parties. People make mistakes. I don’t think holding a grudge against snoop dogg helps anyone.
Also, anyone’s welcome to show up for the Olympics. The d o double g can’t help it that the media just loves him. Have you seen the man? He’s honestly delightful. It’s hard to see everyone through the lense of every bad thing they’ve ever done.
It’s hard to judge on a case-by-case basis when women are dissuaded from pursuing abusers in court. We simply don’t know, because we live in a rape culture, and it is a struggle to convict rapists.
Rape culture refers to the tendency of a society to downplay or dismiss rape, its seriousness, or accusations thereof. Think of the vile “boys being boys” or “he has such a bright future ahead of him, he just made one little mistake!” kind of justifications that still pop up from time to time in high-profile rape cases.
Even some of the allegedly “more enlightened” ones, I remember in 1992 or '93 Speech from Arrested Development rapping about women needing to make more babies for the revolution. Remaining pregnant and nurturing is the happy, dutiful way to be, if you’re a woman. That’s an archaic stance, to say the least.
It’s baffling to me how this guy is now the “haha funny weed uncle” given his criminal record.
…what criminal record? Weed charges? Drug charges as a kid? That’s concerning to you?
He was acquitted of murder. So - not guilty of murder. 30 years ago.
The sexual abuse case against him was dropped. Completely dropped by the accuser. We won’t know what happened. Maybe something did - but you can’t make baseless character accusations or assumptions. Case was dropped, that’s the end of it.
I’m not a snoop boot licker or anything, but I don’t really think he’s a bad person, given his criminal record and all.
I don’t agree with this attitude. I’m wary of branding him a rapist or sexual assaulter without any deeper research, but a dropped case is not the end of things, morally speaking, in just about any serious offense.
Okay, but is it morally right to continually pursue someone who says they are innocent and that it didn’t happen? There wasn’t sufficient evidence to prove anything? I’m not saying the woman did this for money and attention - but what if she did? Otherside of the coin. But you are right, we can’t brand him a rapist and we can’t say she wasn’t raped, the only thing you can say is that the case was dropped and he’s not being charged with rape.
Edit - I don’t like my argument. I don’t want to assume someone made up being raped, but I also don’t have any knowledge on what happened. It’s a shitty opaque situation and I hope that no one was raped and no one is lying - but I know they can’t both be true.
I don’t know anything about this case, but if we don’t know the truth, shouldn’t both parties be treated as innocent?
I feel that questioning his appearance because of those accusations is exactly that.
I haven’t questioned his appearance at the games. I’m just trying not to come off as saying that the accusations are definitely false and we should completely ignore anyone who hasn’t been convicted, especially since I didn’t follow the details of the case closely when it happened.
Sorry, I somehow thought the top of this thread was you.
I now got what you were actually saying.
How about don’t brand the dude as shit and just let him live like a regular ass guy? Someone said he did something years ago, and it was withdrawn. Let it go.
Accepting the outcome of the legal system is the basis for a liveable society. If everyone just does their own vigilante justice bullshit in their head, then we can just abolish the entire system of law.
Accepting the outcome of the legal system with regards to the monopoly on force is the basis for a livable society. Personal moral judgements are not suspended by the existence of a legal system; only the violence or coercive action that would accompany in a society without an institution with a monopoly on legitimate force.
Then do the research or stfu.
If you want to speak to morality, then why are you approaching this as guilty until proven innocent?
It’s one thing if there’s a regular pattern of charges and accusations coming and getting dropped (eg Cosby, Weinstein). But this is not that?
Innocent until proven guilty is a mantra used when determining if the state can deploy violence and curtail your liberties, e.g. by physically confining you in a prison. It’s not a universally applicable rule, and isn’t what’s used in civil court, where judgements are made on balance of probabilities (i.e. if they think the evidence suggests it’s more likely that you’ve done something than that you haven’t) and isn’t what’s used in contexts other than the legal system, like when a duty of care exists - generally it wouldn’t be enough to say someone was safe to work with children if they were only probably not a paedophile.
It’s my understanding that there isn’t enough knowledge available to the public to exhonorate Snoop Dogg, and without that, he’s left looking sketchier than he was before. One dropped allegation could be nothing, or the start of a pattern, and that’s different to there being no allegations at all.
A guilty until proven innocent attitude within society is what breeds fertile ground for abusers. If you can make up whatever shit you want about someone and be believed with no evidence, then abusers will simply accuse their victims as a method of violence and control. If you want to attack abusers and not victims, you need a commitment to the truth.
Look at Depp and Heard. Near as I can tell, they’re both abusers, and they’re both dragging each other’s names through the mud because that’s how abusers do violence. They’re using public opinion as a weapon of abuse. That’s why public opinion must be made resistant to weaponisation without due cause.
Yeah and Flava Flav supporting the women’s waterpolo team after his domestic abuse charges is also pretty wild.
Snoops so hard, yeah? Like how he wears goofy costumes to all his grandkids birthday parties. People make mistakes. I don’t think holding a grudge against snoop dogg helps anyone.
Also, anyone’s welcome to show up for the Olympics. The d o double g can’t help it that the media just loves him. Have you seen the man? He’s honestly delightful. It’s hard to see everyone through the lense of every bad thing they’ve ever done.
Snoop beat that frame job
(But maybe not a SA case)
I remember a big commotion when I was a kid about Snoop Dogg and being accused of sexual assault. Did that go anywhere?
Nope. I tend to believe them though. His generation of rappers isn’t exactly known for respecting women.
That’s a pretty narrow-minded view but okay.
It’s hard to judge on a case-by-case basis when women are dissuaded from pursuing abusers in court. We simply don’t know, because we live in a rape culture, and it is a struggle to convict rapists.
We live in a rape culture?
Would you please expand?
Rape culture refers to the tendency of a society to downplay or dismiss rape, its seriousness, or accusations thereof. Think of the vile “boys being boys” or “he has such a bright future ahead of him, he just made one little mistake!” kind of justifications that still pop up from time to time in high-profile rape cases.
That is just fucked up and I can’t say I recognize it at all from my isolated little Nordic corner. Nobody defends rape.
Is it a US thing?
Even some of the allegedly “more enlightened” ones, I remember in 1992 or '93 Speech from Arrested Development rapping about women needing to make more babies for the revolution. Remaining pregnant and nurturing is the happy, dutiful way to be, if you’re a woman. That’s an archaic stance, to say the least.
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