The anti-MS here is annoying. They set up online accounts by default to improve usability and its complaints about privacy. They set up full disk encryption at rest by default to improve privacy and its complaints about usability.
Setting up online accounts and allowing login via online accounts is fine. Forcing the use of an online account to use an operating system is not OK. They are actively blocking workarounds people use to setup their machine with a local account only.
Providing an easy (perhaps upon installation or first login) method to enable full disk encryption is a good thing. Automatically doing it without user intervention is not.
I would say that enabling it by default and offering a way to disable it before it happens on a laptop makes sense. I have bitlocker enabled on my laptop. But I cannot see any real reason to put it on my desktop. The number of cases where bitlocker on my desktop makes sense are too few to bother with the potential for problems it brings.
The two things are also linked, I suspect they will tie in your bitlocker unlock keys to the microsoft account they force you to login with on computer/windows setup. Should you lose access through any means you could lose access to your account, you’re one misclick/hardware change away from bricking your system.
I also wonder, say for example your Microsoft account becomes banned/deleted through some obscure TOS violation and your PC doesn’t have any local accounts configured. Are you locked out of your PC?
I’m not anti microsoft. I’m anti a lot of their recent actions, and cynical about their overall intentions regarding them.
Most users have no clue, lose passwords, security is not something they think about at all. So arguably for these people setting up with an account, having them pay for 365, all their files are encrypted at least and backed up to OneDrive automatically, no user setup required. The whole ordeal is actually pretty sleek for people that just want to use their computer to sync their photos, browse the web and watch some videos. The Microsoft authenticator can store passwords, edge syncs everything… they even have a solution for syncing the co plete config of your windows to a second device… you log in and it’s exactly like my other PC.
I helped plenty of people migrate to their new laptop like this. I go through checking the setup on their old PC… everything is synced and done. Advise them on the new laptop they buy, and the new one is setup in under 15 minutes… no hassle at all.
They set up online accounts by default to improve usability
Hahahahaha, you’re kidding, right? Or do you genuinely believe this?
Unless you mean usability for MS tracking and telemetry of home users who lack the expertise of enterprise IT (which uses Windows Pro, and disables/blocks the MS tracking via Group Policy, which isn’t available on Windows Home).
The reason for defaulting to an MS account, and making it practically required (they even hide creating a local account during setup if it has a network connection), is to capture even more user data and telemetry.
Now, defaulting to encryption is a good thing. But, the way to do it is to explain during setup (and have a process for) saving the key to another device immediately after setup - such as a thumb drive. Or even printing it, saving it to a text file, etc, etc.
It should also explain how critical it is, and not to trust saving it to a single device/location.
Agreed. The immature iamsosmart user base is making me strongly consider leaving Lemmy for good. There just aren’t enough actual professionals here for any serious discussion in a technical community. It’s just a bunch of 20-year-olds who think they have the world figured out. And they all downvote based on emotion rather than facts (which I am quite prepared for).
Microsoft accounts, OneDrive, and BitLocker are absolutely great features for the average user providing SSO, cloud storage with ransomware-proof backups, and seamless full-disk encryption.
I love Linux too, but there seems to be no room for nuance on Lemmy. These children are insufferable.
If they are so great, why do they need to be continuously shoved down the throats of users who don’t want them? That’s the part everyone hates. The dark patterns everywhere. My OS should do exactly as I tell it without trying to trick me or sell me something, not the other way around.
They’re not dark patterns. You kids love throwing that term at everything. They’re simply secure defaults because the average user doesn’t change defaults. And “continuously?” Please. 🙄
Do you really want me to count the number of times I’ve switched default browsers away from Edge, only to have it reverted back? And yes, hiding the local account option from the setup screen is a dark pattern.
You kids
I’m probably twice as old as you are. I’ve used MS OSes since MS-DOS 3.0.
Do you really want me to count the number of times I’ve switched default browsers away from Edge, only to have it reverted back?
So you suck at managing computers. Got it. This has never happened to me, but I also don’t install every third party app under the sun trying to fight how Windows is designed to work. I bet you have some shady custom start menu app and run CCleaner and defrag on a schedule.
I’ve used MS OSes since MS-DOS 3.0.
Ooh, big flex. I can go back even further but it doesn’t matter because only one of us here seems to know how to use MS OSes without everything randomly changing on them due to *checks notes* “dark patterns.”
I lost all of my data on a tablet that had Bitlocker installed without my knowledge. Not one time was I ever told that my drive was encrypted or that there was even something called Bitlocker or that I should write down some password or code. Bitlocker activated because of an OS update, and I had no way to unlock it so I had to wipe the drive. I don’t have an MS account, because I have no need to give MS all of my data, so I couldn’t unlock it that way either. And no, I’m not a 20 year old; I’m someone who has used computers since before the internet and have no interest in setting up a corporate account for every watch, shoe, phone, video game, car, etc. I have no interest in giving MS all of my pictures, documents, emails, and browsing history.
This did not happen. You did something to enable it.
I don’t have an MS account, because I have no need to give MS all of my data
If you had one, all of your data would have been safe in OneDrive and easily recoverable. But I’m sure the irony is completely lost on all the anti-MS people here. Nah, it must be Microsoft’s fault you didn’t have backups when you broke your tablet.
Bitlocker activates when you enter an incorrect OS password too many times. I had my tablet set to unlock without a password or pass code, so I never used whatever pass code I set up a year and a half earlier. After one of the OS updates it forced me to log in with a pass code. I tried some pass codes I thought I might have used, thinking that worst case I would have to do a time delay before trying again… because again, MS never told me Bitlocker was installed and never told me it had a password and never told me I should write down whatever password Bitlocker set for itself and never told me that Bitlocker would lock my entire harddrive if I entered an incorrect password too many times.
But go ahead and keep telling me it’s my fault MS added something so intrusive without telling me.
Bitlocker activates when you enter an incorrect OS password too many times.
This is completely false. Please stop spreading misinformation. You clearly have no idea how BitLocker works, nor Secure Boot, BCD, TPM, or PCRs. Or anything really.
Maybe you should stick to an iPad. I’m done replying to this blithering nonsense.
I don’t think you’re right. Those bullets are: “The following list provides examples of common events that cause a device to enter BitLocker recovery mode when starting Windows:”
Why would entering the Bitlocker PIN too many times cause BitLocker to activate? If you are entering a BitLocker PIN then you have already activated BitLocker, right? Please explain to me why, in your scenario, I would be in the position to enter the BitLocker PIN too many times when all I was doing was restarting my tablet after an OS update.
The last bullet says it also happens when “Exceeding the maximum allowed number of failed sign-in attempts.” So even if you are correct that the first bullet is about the BitLocker PIN, then the last bullet is about failed sign-in attempts to Windows.
I like how you keep dismissing someone who is providing evidence by replying with being a jerk instead of giving helpful or factual information. You’re dying on the stupidest hill here.
The anti-MS here is annoying. They set up online accounts by default to improve usability and its complaints about privacy. They set up full disk encryption at rest by default to improve privacy and its complaints about usability.
Setting up online accounts and allowing login via online accounts is fine. Forcing the use of an online account to use an operating system is not OK. They are actively blocking workarounds people use to setup their machine with a local account only.
Providing an easy (perhaps upon installation or first login) method to enable full disk encryption is a good thing. Automatically doing it without user intervention is not.
I would say that enabling it by default and offering a way to disable it before it happens on a laptop makes sense. I have bitlocker enabled on my laptop. But I cannot see any real reason to put it on my desktop. The number of cases where bitlocker on my desktop makes sense are too few to bother with the potential for problems it brings.
The two things are also linked, I suspect they will tie in your bitlocker unlock keys to the microsoft account they force you to login with on computer/windows setup. Should you lose access through any means you could lose access to your account, you’re one misclick/hardware change away from bricking your system.
I also wonder, say for example your Microsoft account becomes banned/deleted through some obscure TOS violation and your PC doesn’t have any local accounts configured. Are you locked out of your PC?
I’m not anti microsoft. I’m anti a lot of their recent actions, and cynical about their overall intentions regarding them.
These are valid complaints tho.
From powerusers yes, and taking away their options is nonsense. But for the general populace it is arguably a good thing.
right up until they can’t tell which ms account they used to register their machine, up until then, it’s very secure, sure
Oh god… you know my dad?
How?
Most users have no clue, lose passwords, security is not something they think about at all. So arguably for these people setting up with an account, having them pay for 365, all their files are encrypted at least and backed up to OneDrive automatically, no user setup required. The whole ordeal is actually pretty sleek for people that just want to use their computer to sync their photos, browse the web and watch some videos. The Microsoft authenticator can store passwords, edge syncs everything… they even have a solution for syncing the co plete config of your windows to a second device… you log in and it’s exactly like my other PC.
I helped plenty of people migrate to their new laptop like this. I go through checking the setup on their old PC… everything is synced and done. Advise them on the new laptop they buy, and the new one is setup in under 15 minutes… no hassle at all.
Hahahahaha, you’re kidding, right? Or do you genuinely believe this?
Unless you mean usability for MS tracking and telemetry of home users who lack the expertise of enterprise IT (which uses Windows Pro, and disables/blocks the MS tracking via Group Policy, which isn’t available on Windows Home).
The reason for defaulting to an MS account, and making it practically required (they even hide creating a local account during setup if it has a network connection), is to capture even more user data and telemetry.
Now, defaulting to encryption is a good thing. But, the way to do it is to explain during setup (and have a process for) saving the key to another device immediately after setup - such as a thumb drive. Or even printing it, saving it to a text file, etc, etc.
It should also explain how critical it is, and not to trust saving it to a single device/location.
Agreed. The immature iamsosmart user base is making me strongly consider leaving Lemmy for good. There just aren’t enough actual professionals here for any serious discussion in a technical community. It’s just a bunch of 20-year-olds who think they have the world figured out. And they all downvote based on emotion rather than facts (which I am quite prepared for).
Microsoft accounts, OneDrive, and BitLocker are absolutely great features for the average user providing SSO, cloud storage with ransomware-proof backups, and seamless full-disk encryption.
I love Linux too, but there seems to be no room for nuance on Lemmy. These children are insufferable.
If they are so great, why do they need to be continuously shoved down the throats of users who don’t want them? That’s the part everyone hates. The dark patterns everywhere. My OS should do exactly as I tell it without trying to trick me or sell me something, not the other way around.
They’re not dark patterns. You kids love throwing that term at everything. They’re simply secure defaults because the average user doesn’t change defaults. And “continuously?” Please. 🙄
Do you really want me to count the number of times I’ve switched default browsers away from Edge, only to have it reverted back? And yes, hiding the local account option from the setup screen is a dark pattern.
I’m probably twice as old as you are. I’ve used MS OSes since MS-DOS 3.0.
So you suck at managing computers. Got it. This has never happened to me, but I also don’t install every third party app under the sun trying to fight how Windows is designed to work. I bet you have some shady custom start menu app and run CCleaner and defrag on a schedule.
Ooh, big flex. I can go back even further but it doesn’t matter because only one of us here seems to know how to use MS OSes without everything randomly changing on them due to *checks notes* “dark patterns.”
I lost all of my data on a tablet that had Bitlocker installed without my knowledge. Not one time was I ever told that my drive was encrypted or that there was even something called Bitlocker or that I should write down some password or code. Bitlocker activated because of an OS update, and I had no way to unlock it so I had to wipe the drive. I don’t have an MS account, because I have no need to give MS all of my data, so I couldn’t unlock it that way either. And no, I’m not a 20 year old; I’m someone who has used computers since before the internet and have no interest in setting up a corporate account for every watch, shoe, phone, video game, car, etc. I have no interest in giving MS all of my pictures, documents, emails, and browsing history.
This did not happen. You did something to enable it.
If you had one, all of your data would have been safe in OneDrive and easily recoverable. But I’m sure the irony is completely lost on all the anti-MS people here. Nah, it must be Microsoft’s fault you didn’t have backups when you broke your tablet.
Bitlocker activates when you enter an incorrect OS password too many times. I had my tablet set to unlock without a password or pass code, so I never used whatever pass code I set up a year and a half earlier. After one of the OS updates it forced me to log in with a pass code. I tried some pass codes I thought I might have used, thinking that worst case I would have to do a time delay before trying again… because again, MS never told me Bitlocker was installed and never told me it had a password and never told me I should write down whatever password Bitlocker set for itself and never told me that Bitlocker would lock my entire harddrive if I entered an incorrect password too many times.
But go ahead and keep telling me it’s my fault MS added something so intrusive without telling me.
This is completely false. Please stop spreading misinformation. You clearly have no idea how BitLocker works, nor Secure Boot, BCD, TPM, or PCRs. Or anything really.
Maybe you should stick to an iPad. I’m done replying to this blithering nonsense.
Where is /c/confidentlyincorrect when you need it?
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/operating-system-security/data-protection/bitlocker/recovery-overview
Very first goddamn bullet: “Entering the wrong PIN too many times”
That’s the BitLocker PIN, not the OS PIN. Go away.
I don’t think you’re right. Those bullets are: “The following list provides examples of common events that cause a device to enter BitLocker recovery mode when starting Windows:”
Why would entering the Bitlocker PIN too many times cause BitLocker to activate? If you are entering a BitLocker PIN then you have already activated BitLocker, right? Please explain to me why, in your scenario, I would be in the position to enter the BitLocker PIN too many times when all I was doing was restarting my tablet after an OS update.
The last bullet says it also happens when “Exceeding the maximum allowed number of failed sign-in attempts.” So even if you are correct that the first bullet is about the BitLocker PIN, then the last bullet is about failed sign-in attempts to Windows.
I like how you keep dismissing someone who is providing evidence by replying with being a jerk instead of giving helpful or factual information. You’re dying on the stupidest hill here.
I’m actually 46.
Here’s a cookie:
Oh, and I use Arch btw.