I was just thinking about this as well. The great majority of posters on Lemmy seem to use articles from large, reputable news outlets, so I never got the need for the bot, but I don’t understand the outrage at it when one could just block it.
The closest to a legit argument against it I’ve seen basically was who makes sure the anti-bias people don’t have bias, but again, I don’t see people posting things from LindellTV or whatever. I’ve been seeing a rise in people hating on just about every news source though, including things like NYT. I’m starting to wonder what those people consider legit sources. No source is going to be perfect, but when I see these same people recommend places, the names are getting pretty far Leftist. I don’t see that as a problem in itself, as my leanings are decently left of the US Dem party most of the time, but if they’re recommending those sources as unbiased news, that seems false to me. It comes off the same as the righties saying Fox isn’t real news because it isn’t right enough.
Perhaps it’s just we’re not used to seeing opinions from those getting to the very far left. I tend to ignore a lot of this type of drama, but with the growing attacks on news sources, and on mods for moderating, it’s starting to concern me as someone with interest in this platform and its future. I don’t want this place to become a place for extreme bias of either side. I welcome any opinion that’s going to express themselves respectfully, but I don’t want extremism or prejudice from either side.
You seem like a reasonable and nice enough person and I agree with everything you wrote in the thread below. I did however find it sad that there are a lot of users on Lemmy who would read this part:
the names are getting pretty far Leftist. I don’t see that as a problem in itself, as my leanings are decently left of the US Dem party most of the time
And then immediately dismiss you as a “sHiTlIb”. It’s like you cannot possibly ever be left wing enough for some of these users. It gets exhausting for me honestly. Yeah dude we get it you read Marx and often wear a fedora.
When people are at either end of the political spectrum, that leaves the vast majority of everything else falling into their version of “enlightened centrism.”
In the specific post I was alluding to, one of the suggested news sources was Unicorn Riot, which I’m somewhat familiar with. I agree with many positions they back, and I believe what they report is very important to document. But when you’re reading an article, and if the story is about the event the author is an active participant in, how is there any argument that the given article is not totally biased?
Now, that is far from saying that article is useless! Quite the opposite, in fact. A first hand account from someone prepared to observe important details of chaotic events as they unfold is extremely valuable information. But they are there, equally, if not moreso, as a participant in said event than as an impartial observer. In that regard, I would never recommend UR as a primary source on an event. If you told me you read a story from Reuters or NYT but said you wished there were something you could read to fill in some gaps or to get some insight into the protest of reasons behind it that you felt that article was lacking, then by all means read something like a Unicorn Riot article!
Activism is important and necessary to improve our world, and I often appreciate the role they play. But activists, by definition, are pushing an agenda, since their entire purpose is to change the status quo. Journalism is collecting accurate info and passing that to the public in a way it can make sense of it. I don’t think there should be much overlap in those 2 things.
Unbiased news should be dry and boring, as it isn’t getting any “flavor” by its author. So perhaps if you’re getting pumped up positively or negatively by what you are reading, step back for a second and evaluate what it is you’re reading and trying to see if someone is trying to work on your emotions, and if that is a thing you want.
I won’t please everyone with my opinions of course. I do try to make sure I can back up my takes with evidence though, or I try to keep my mouth shut otherwise, at least publicly. 😁
It’s taken a long time and a lot of reading and thinking critically to get to this point. Many people probably don’t have the time or energy to devote to it, which is why I try to educate in a way that doesn’t try to make people feel dumb for not knowing. I do my best to filter down to the core message and put it in relatable context without trying to add any influence where possible. It can’t be intimidating to try to form an opinion on complex matters, but you can still form valid opinions if someone can help get you started with sound fundamentals.
My personal example is I tried to teach myself music by myself for many years. I picked up bits and pieces and could do a few things passably, but I hit roadblocks very quickly. Now that I have been able to get a teacher, who has the prior experience and knowledge, she’s able to show me the most efficient order to learn skill in, and how to build upon the knowledge and skills I have and to see areas I’m lacking. I’m still developing my own music taste and style and not hers because she takes me feedback and listens to my interests and my own takeaways from what she shows me. She’s been a great help to me without having her force me to what she knows or likes. That’s the kind of thing I want to give to people that look to me for information.
I’m glad I got to share something of value with you!
Well I think you’ve actually accurately communicated the need for such a bot. A lot of the sources here are sometimes far left sources that even I don’t trust or they can be just a Wordpress blog. Sometimes that’s fine but I really appreciate the bot being there to highlight it.
And I tend to know the sources pretty well. I know how the Washington post works for example, I know what NPRs articles are bent towards. But I know a lot of people don’t know that and that’s why I’m confused about the hate for the bot because in my eyes it’s only helpful and the sites it links to are decent sources of analysis on them.
I’m with you though, I have yet to see someone post as bad of a source as the NYpost or something but still, the bot is at worst useless and not harmful imo
Perhaps it makes people uncomfortable when their own biases are questioned. Most of us here will gladly go on all day about right wing bias while denying any from the left. I would rather be told if my viewpoint seems off as long as it’s in a constructive way. There’s a lot I don’t know or understand, and having others correct us is how we learn, and that should be done with good intent.
NPR is always a fun one to see how people react to it. The hard left and right both seem to hate on it and swear it leans the opposite of them. If anything, I feel they’re too soft on extremism, mainly to the right, but it’s curious to see how people can see opposite extremes in whatever they want.
If there’s something that I’m really interested in, I’ll try to read things for 2 or 3 relatively neutral sources to try to see if I’m getting an accurate view on it. It really doesn’t need to be too complex to vet info. NPR, AP, and BBC are my top go tos.
Totally agree but I’d add Reuters into your mix. From everything I’ve read, they’re highly factual and so bias almost doesn’t even apply to them. Most people mark them as dead center.
From everything I’ve read, they’re highly factual and so bias almost doesn’t even apply to them.
While I mostly agree, it should be noted that “bias” can be communicated in a number of ways that a bot can’t detect. “What doesn’t get reported”, for example. Also, “center” is both subjective and relative - I find Reuters does little to highlight moneyed corruption, for example, but they seem fully competent to report on an earthquake or something like that.
I would give them a lot of weight in general, but still pretty far from “accurately representing a complete picture” for the above reasons. They’re just a lot more reasonable about the bias they do communicate.
I do like Reuters as well. I used to use them and AP first, since they’re the source for most news anyway, so I try to go to the source. The content though seemed so similar to AP though, and I prefer the more linear vertical style of the AP Top News page to either the AP home page or the Reuters page with their stacked left to right style. I just looked and mobile seems to fix this, but I do most of my news reading on my work laptop so I get the standard website. Perhaps I’m due to swap in some Reuters again.
I was just thinking about this as well. The great majority of posters on Lemmy seem to use articles from large, reputable news outlets, so I never got the need for the bot, but I don’t understand the outrage at it when one could just block it.
The closest to a legit argument against it I’ve seen basically was who makes sure the anti-bias people don’t have bias, but again, I don’t see people posting things from LindellTV or whatever. I’ve been seeing a rise in people hating on just about every news source though, including things like NYT. I’m starting to wonder what those people consider legit sources. No source is going to be perfect, but when I see these same people recommend places, the names are getting pretty far Leftist. I don’t see that as a problem in itself, as my leanings are decently left of the US Dem party most of the time, but if they’re recommending those sources as unbiased news, that seems false to me. It comes off the same as the righties saying Fox isn’t real news because it isn’t right enough.
Perhaps it’s just we’re not used to seeing opinions from those getting to the very far left. I tend to ignore a lot of this type of drama, but with the growing attacks on news sources, and on mods for moderating, it’s starting to concern me as someone with interest in this platform and its future. I don’t want this place to become a place for extreme bias of either side. I welcome any opinion that’s going to express themselves respectfully, but I don’t want extremism or prejudice from either side.
You seem like a reasonable and nice enough person and I agree with everything you wrote in the thread below. I did however find it sad that there are a lot of users on Lemmy who would read this part:
And then immediately dismiss you as a “sHiTlIb”. It’s like you cannot possibly ever be left wing enough for some of these users. It gets exhausting for me honestly. Yeah dude we get it you read Marx and often wear a fedora.
When people are at either end of the political spectrum, that leaves the vast majority of everything else falling into their version of “enlightened centrism.”
In the specific post I was alluding to, one of the suggested news sources was Unicorn Riot, which I’m somewhat familiar with. I agree with many positions they back, and I believe what they report is very important to document. But when you’re reading an article, and if the story is about the event the author is an active participant in, how is there any argument that the given article is not totally biased?
Now, that is far from saying that article is useless! Quite the opposite, in fact. A first hand account from someone prepared to observe important details of chaotic events as they unfold is extremely valuable information. But they are there, equally, if not moreso, as a participant in said event than as an impartial observer. In that regard, I would never recommend UR as a primary source on an event. If you told me you read a story from Reuters or NYT but said you wished there were something you could read to fill in some gaps or to get some insight into the protest of reasons behind it that you felt that article was lacking, then by all means read something like a Unicorn Riot article!
Activism is important and necessary to improve our world, and I often appreciate the role they play. But activists, by definition, are pushing an agenda, since their entire purpose is to change the status quo. Journalism is collecting accurate info and passing that to the public in a way it can make sense of it. I don’t think there should be much overlap in those 2 things.
Unbiased news should be dry and boring, as it isn’t getting any “flavor” by its author. So perhaps if you’re getting pumped up positively or negatively by what you are reading, step back for a second and evaluate what it is you’re reading and trying to see if someone is trying to work on your emotions, and if that is a thing you want.
I won’t please everyone with my opinions of course. I do try to make sure I can back up my takes with evidence though, or I try to keep my mouth shut otherwise, at least publicly. 😁
This is a fantastic take. Bravo!
Nothing more really to add other than I wish more people could be like you and see past the more simplistic views of the world.
It’s taken a long time and a lot of reading and thinking critically to get to this point. Many people probably don’t have the time or energy to devote to it, which is why I try to educate in a way that doesn’t try to make people feel dumb for not knowing. I do my best to filter down to the core message and put it in relatable context without trying to add any influence where possible. It can’t be intimidating to try to form an opinion on complex matters, but you can still form valid opinions if someone can help get you started with sound fundamentals.
My personal example is I tried to teach myself music by myself for many years. I picked up bits and pieces and could do a few things passably, but I hit roadblocks very quickly. Now that I have been able to get a teacher, who has the prior experience and knowledge, she’s able to show me the most efficient order to learn skill in, and how to build upon the knowledge and skills I have and to see areas I’m lacking. I’m still developing my own music taste and style and not hers because she takes me feedback and listens to my interests and my own takeaways from what she shows me. She’s been a great help to me without having her force me to what she knows or likes. That’s the kind of thing I want to give to people that look to me for information.
I’m glad I got to share something of value with you!
Well I think you’ve actually accurately communicated the need for such a bot. A lot of the sources here are sometimes far left sources that even I don’t trust or they can be just a Wordpress blog. Sometimes that’s fine but I really appreciate the bot being there to highlight it.
And I tend to know the sources pretty well. I know how the Washington post works for example, I know what NPRs articles are bent towards. But I know a lot of people don’t know that and that’s why I’m confused about the hate for the bot because in my eyes it’s only helpful and the sites it links to are decent sources of analysis on them.
I’m with you though, I have yet to see someone post as bad of a source as the NYpost or something but still, the bot is at worst useless and not harmful imo
Perhaps it makes people uncomfortable when their own biases are questioned. Most of us here will gladly go on all day about right wing bias while denying any from the left. I would rather be told if my viewpoint seems off as long as it’s in a constructive way. There’s a lot I don’t know or understand, and having others correct us is how we learn, and that should be done with good intent.
NPR is always a fun one to see how people react to it. The hard left and right both seem to hate on it and swear it leans the opposite of them. If anything, I feel they’re too soft on extremism, mainly to the right, but it’s curious to see how people can see opposite extremes in whatever they want.
If there’s something that I’m really interested in, I’ll try to read things for 2 or 3 relatively neutral sources to try to see if I’m getting an accurate view on it. It really doesn’t need to be too complex to vet info. NPR, AP, and BBC are my top go tos.
Totally agree but I’d add Reuters into your mix. From everything I’ve read, they’re highly factual and so bias almost doesn’t even apply to them. Most people mark them as dead center.
While I mostly agree, it should be noted that “bias” can be communicated in a number of ways that a bot can’t detect. “What doesn’t get reported”, for example. Also, “center” is both subjective and relative - I find Reuters does little to highlight moneyed corruption, for example, but they seem fully competent to report on an earthquake or something like that.
I would give them a lot of weight in general, but still pretty far from “accurately representing a complete picture” for the above reasons. They’re just a lot more reasonable about the bias they do communicate.
I do like Reuters as well. I used to use them and AP first, since they’re the source for most news anyway, so I try to go to the source. The content though seemed so similar to AP though, and I prefer the more linear vertical style of the AP Top News page to either the AP home page or the Reuters page with their stacked left to right style. I just looked and mobile seems to fix this, but I do most of my news reading on my work laptop so I get the standard website. Perhaps I’m due to swap in some Reuters again.