I haven’t seen one instance of a doctor saying “Fuck it, I’m going to save this woman’s life because that’s where my moral compass is. Come and get me.” Instead, they hide behind the health care industry, the insurance industry and state lawmakers who could never hold a medical degree.
As far as I’m concerned the whole batch has the integrity of a slug. But, worst of all are all those citizens who, like them, could give two shits if a woman lives or dies. We seem to want to drum up a lot of sympathy in this country for people thousands of miles away,
but not so much for the woman bleeding out in the parking lot of a hospital.
Can’t wait to read your rant on cashiers not giving away food or hotel attendants not giving out rooms to homeless people or all of the selfish fucks (present 🤚) that don’t donate blood regularly and aren’t organ donors.
A doctor or hospital gets to make the choice to save the life once. Once they make that call, it’s jail time, loss of license, and financial ruin.
What doctors are doing is leaving the states with these laws. In my state, hospitals are closing down their OBGYN units because they simply can’t find doctors that will work there.
Like, I’m sorry, I don’t expect someone to destroy their lives and family lives for a patient. Further, the jail time also hurts patients they can help with non-abortion related medical issues. These doctors taking principled stances will not impact the law makers or their constituents who pushed for the laws. The rabid anti-abortion terrorists literally celebrate the murders of doctors that have performed abortions.
And how many other patients end up dying because there are no doctors staffing the ER? What happens to a community if the state government shuts down a hospital because of repeated violations of their abortion law?
That’s why your blame make no sense. While I’d certainly congratulate any doctor brave enough to be arrested over the law, I understand completely why they don’t and would not expect any doctor to.
Secondly, you seem to suggest that an innocent death is for the greater good. Sure you want to stick with that?
I’m suggesting that we have a real life trolley problem. Save a pregnant person’s life, remove yourself from being able to save the life of someone that has a heart attack, stroke, or any other list of life threatening diseases.
Yes, I want to stick with that because that is very much the situation these doctors and hospital systems find themselves in.
And, to be real clear, many of these doctors are leaving the red states to get out of this situation. And I don’t blame them for doing that.
You’ll stick with the theory an innocent death is for the the greater good until it’s your innocent death.
You could make the same argument that someone without insurance or means should be denied access because the hospital needs only paying customers to stay in business.
You’ll stick with the theory an innocent death is for the the greater good until it’s your innocent death.
I never said the death was for good. Nor have I said that it’d be immoral for a doctor to break the law. The death is because of a horrible legal reality and a doctor that complies with the law isn’t some sort of monster. There are justifications for that decision, but you won’t respect them. I am not some moral absolutist like you appear to be. Things can be murky.
You could make the same argument that someone without insurance or means should be denied access because the hospital needs only paying customers to stay in business.
I could, but I’m not making that argument. In fact, I argue strongly that the entire healthcare industry should be nationalized and paid by taxes. Just because that’s my desired outcome doesn’t mean that I turn around and shame doctors and nurses for working for more than minimum wage. Which is effectively what you are saying “These doctors are making healthcare expensive for all because of their salaries. They should work for free!”
In the exact same vein, I argue that abortion should be legal and highly available. But that’s not the environment I or doctors find themselves in. So, sorry, I’m not going to fault doctors for not playing hero.
Ofcourse, because OBGYN’s have skills interchangable with any ER doctor. And if a random ER doctor ends up with a dead baby, mother or both… off to jail!
These doctors went to medical school to learn to make medical decissions. And now they have hospital lawyers telling them, certain decissions will land them in jail. So their only option is, move states, leaving mothers and babies without the care they need.
The lawmakers interjected their beliefs into medical care and now everyone is paying the price. And because people don’t like that, they blame the doctors. Accusing the doctors of moral cowardice, to avoid having to deal with the fact that they themselves are complicit in these deaths.
Internal bleeding due to a miscarriage is something that can be diagnosed and treated by an er doc. It doesn’t take a specialized practice and is fairly common.
I have no doubt that’s true. Nothing the state, like Texas, would like to do more than put a medical doctor on trial. Nonetheless, there are things that are right and things that are wrong. Letting a woman die by refusing treatment cannot be right. Not right morally if nothing else. So many here want to provide or parrot an excuse that they use.
This is a really strange take. If one of those cowardly doctors does what you suggest, and they lose the ability to practice medicine, what happens to all those patients they could’ve treated in the future? Should the next patient die without treatment because the doctor decided to risk it?
No, doctors are most certainly not the problem here. And what a weird group to target.
Oh, so you want me to be more percise. Ok
I haven’t seen one instance of a doctor saying “Fuck it, I’m going to save this woman’s life because that’s where my moral compass is. Come and get me.” Instead, they hide behind the health care industry, the insurance industry and state lawmakers who could never hold a medical degree.
As far as I’m concerned the whole batch has the integrity of a slug. But, worst of all are all those citizens who, like them, could give two shits if a woman lives or dies. We seem to want to drum up a lot of sympathy in this country for people thousands of miles away, but not so much for the woman bleeding out in the parking lot of a hospital.
How’s that
Can’t wait to read your rant on cashiers not giving away food or hotel attendants not giving out rooms to homeless people or all of the selfish fucks (present 🤚) that don’t donate blood regularly and aren’t organ donors.
I doubt I would ever rant about a person not being able to scan a barcode. A person bleeding out is another matter.
A doctor or hospital gets to make the choice to save the life once. Once they make that call, it’s jail time, loss of license, and financial ruin.
What doctors are doing is leaving the states with these laws. In my state, hospitals are closing down their OBGYN units because they simply can’t find doctors that will work there.
Like, I’m sorry, I don’t expect someone to destroy their lives and family lives for a patient. Further, the jail time also hurts patients they can help with non-abortion related medical issues. These doctors taking principled stances will not impact the law makers or their constituents who pushed for the laws. The rabid anti-abortion terrorists literally celebrate the murders of doctors that have performed abortions.
It doesn’t take a specialist to treat a woman bleeding out. Any ER doc should be able to do that.
And yes, maybe it would destroy a career. But, on the other hand the woman dies.
And how many other patients end up dying because there are no doctors staffing the ER? What happens to a community if the state government shuts down a hospital because of repeated violations of their abortion law?
That’s why your blame make no sense. While I’d certainly congratulate any doctor brave enough to be arrested over the law, I understand completely why they don’t and would not expect any doctor to.
First of all, I’m not blaming anyone. If I had to blame someone, I’d start with SCOTUS.
Secondly, you seem to suggest that an innocent death is for the greater good. Sure you want to stick with that?
I’m suggesting that we have a real life trolley problem. Save a pregnant person’s life, remove yourself from being able to save the life of someone that has a heart attack, stroke, or any other list of life threatening diseases.
Yes, I want to stick with that because that is very much the situation these doctors and hospital systems find themselves in.
And, to be real clear, many of these doctors are leaving the red states to get out of this situation. And I don’t blame them for doing that.
You’ll stick with the theory an innocent death is for the the greater good until it’s your innocent death.
You could make the same argument that someone without insurance or means should be denied access because the hospital needs only paying customers to stay in business.
Some people would find that to be amoral.
I never said the death was for good. Nor have I said that it’d be immoral for a doctor to break the law. The death is because of a horrible legal reality and a doctor that complies with the law isn’t some sort of monster. There are justifications for that decision, but you won’t respect them. I am not some moral absolutist like you appear to be. Things can be murky.
I could, but I’m not making that argument. In fact, I argue strongly that the entire healthcare industry should be nationalized and paid by taxes. Just because that’s my desired outcome doesn’t mean that I turn around and shame doctors and nurses for working for more than minimum wage. Which is effectively what you are saying “These doctors are making healthcare expensive for all because of their salaries. They should work for free!”
In the exact same vein, I argue that abortion should be legal and highly available. But that’s not the environment I or doctors find themselves in. So, sorry, I’m not going to fault doctors for not playing hero.
Ofcourse, because OBGYN’s have skills interchangable with any ER doctor. And if a random ER doctor ends up with a dead baby, mother or both… off to jail!
These doctors went to medical school to learn to make medical decissions. And now they have hospital lawyers telling them, certain decissions will land them in jail. So their only option is, move states, leaving mothers and babies without the care they need.
The lawmakers interjected their beliefs into medical care and now everyone is paying the price. And because people don’t like that, they blame the doctors. Accusing the doctors of moral cowardice, to avoid having to deal with the fact that they themselves are complicit in these deaths.
Internal bleeding due to a miscarriage is something that can be diagnosed and treated by an er doc. It doesn’t take a specialized practice and is fairly common.
So, if medical professionals tell you this is risky for them as they might go to jail, because medicine is not an exact science, you know better?
The professionals tell you it’s not easy, and risky to their freedom, you’d better believe them.
I have no doubt that’s true. Nothing the state, like Texas, would like to do more than put a medical doctor on trial. Nonetheless, there are things that are right and things that are wrong. Letting a woman die by refusing treatment cannot be right. Not right morally if nothing else. So many here want to provide or parrot an excuse that they use.
This is a really strange take. If one of those cowardly doctors does what you suggest, and they lose the ability to practice medicine, what happens to all those patients they could’ve treated in the future? Should the next patient die without treatment because the doctor decided to risk it?
No, doctors are most certainly not the problem here. And what a weird group to target.
I didn’t say doctors were the problem. We all know what the problem is.
A doctor is supposed to treat what.is in front of them, and that’s obviously not what’s happening.
They are legally bound to not do things that might help the mother, because doing that might/will kill the baby. And that is not allowed.
How about morally bound? Ethically bound?
You expect these doctors to risk their freedom? That’s a pretty big ask.