Median household is apparently 80k now. 30 percent of that monthly is 2,000.
In my city 2,000 will rent you an infested place with water damage from the flood a year ago. But if the city comes around you have to pretend not to live there or else they’ll kick you out.
Don’t forget that household income is everyone in the house. So if you are all poor college kids with part time jobs making 15-20k a year your household income will still be close to or at the median, even though each of you are individually really poor
Just to point out, with the median mortgage at $2349 a month, it’s more like you need a household income of $93,000 a year (probably closer to $100k with utilities and other expenses) for your housing costs to equal 30% of your income. That is steep for a lot of people, but still much more attainable than 7 figures. A quick Google says that makes up around 37% of US households as of 2022. Still doesn’t quite add up to their figures, admittedly, unless “nearly half” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
No no we know people are buying houses. It’s just hard to compete when that person is Black Rock and they bought an entire development before it even hit the market.
Corporate owners own less than 4% of single family homes.
It’s not okay and that does put pressure on the market. We should strive to minimize that.
It’s not the hellscape you want it to be. $2500/mo still buys you a 2400sq ft home in a nice neighborhood in moderate CoL areas. Again that price is out of reach for many, but home ownership rates for Gen Z is higher than millennials when adjusted for age. Most of America own their homes.
It really doesn’t mean anything to say what a home might cost in a certain area, without specifying that area. People can’t just move across the country, because they don’t have jobs. And if you’re putting them in a situation where they would have to commute an hour and a half each way, that has its own set of issues.
The numbers that you include look nice, but I’ve seen a lot of other numbers that don’t look nice. Obviously this all depends where you live, how much money you have, and what kind of place you want to buy.
Well that’s a flat out lie. CoreLogic straight up tells anyone willing to read that investors own 20-30 percent of housing in every state. And they’re 30 percent of the purchasing for houses on the market every month.
If you move outside the city, shit gets much, much cheaper. Mortgages are easily $1,750/mo ($300k, 30yr, tax + insurance included). If your goal is to live in NYC or Seattle, you will be spending quite a bit on your chosen lifestyle. If your goal instead is to buy/rent an affordable 2-3br home, there are lots of options.
Ugh. I get really annoyed when people defend egregious housing prices with the “just live in a shitty place, in a shitty location, in the middle of a food desert, far from economic opportunities, social interactions, public transportation, and you can afford it” argument
I live 10 miles outside of Seattle and have never once spent more than 30% on rent.
There are a lot of unanswered questions here: what size is the place where you live? What is your income? How many people live with you and what is the collective income? How long is your commute? How long is the commute of the others who live with you, if there are any? What local amenities are available?
Not only that I’d be curious if 1) you’re required to own a car and all the costs associated with it, 2) the only thing really out there is chain restaurants and chain stores? 3) the only “entertainment” is a massive movie theater, and maybe a bowling alley.
You have a 2-3 br home you pay $1,750/mo mortgage for
You are an Electrician Apprentice, making a median salary of $57k
You have very reasonable student loans between $3k and $19k (your number)
You will be a full blown electrician in 2-7 years (your number, 4,000 to 12,000 hours, full time)
I don’t know about you, but that all sounds quite reasonable. That is a nice home, student loans that are very affordable and will be paid off soon, a good job, and a promising career path. You own your home, meaning you are building equity. And, hell, you can even rent out one of the bedrooms to vastly lower that already reasonable monthly mortgage.
This may not be what you specifically want in life, but it is a very achievable goal and a comfortable life for the average man.
Yes. Very reasonable. You just need to find a way to afford rent and food for you and your kids for those seven years, at least a couple of which you won’t be earning the sort of money you could earn to move out to Shitsville, Nowhere and buy a modest home.
I’m guessing your next piece of advice would be: just don’t have kids. Because women can just vacuum those back up once they come out.
Once the kid situation hits then yeah, it’s harder to make planning decisions, people’s options are limited at that point. I agree we should help people in those circumstances, but I also think we should help people make plans which avoid painting themselves into a corner.
Where are you finding a livable home for 300k? I live in a rural area, and I love it here, but you’re never going to find a house for 300k unless you’re willing to put another 150k into stripping it down to the studs and renovating it.
Detroit Metro area. That’s what I did. Went from a $3400 rent to a $1800 mortgage. House is in great condition but I do have plans to remodel it, no rush.
I was able to find a home for about $320k about 15 miles from the city. I searched for two years. My interest rate is shit. But hey, I have a house!
It was fully renovated.
I’m not saying the market isn’t shit. Because it is due to fucking investors.
I know I am lucky to have a job that pays well, even though it hasn’t kept up with inflation. I know that this isn’t the case for everyone and I’d be willing to take a hit on my home value if it meant others could buy a home too.
The last time we moved we actually did this. Kept us from paying more bills to commute longer. I highly recommend figuring out your monthly gas/mass transit bill and adding that to the price of places you’re comparing.
Also, commuting time. If you have young kids but you don’t get home until 7:30, you’re going to spend very little time on them. And possibly a lot on child care.
But even if you’re not a parent, long commutes, by car, by public transit, or both can be pretty stressful after a long day at work.
Who are the half that make the 7 figures required to not spend half your income on housing?
Did they just fully make up have the surveyed population?
$1400/mo, the rough figure from the article, is 30% of $56k/yr. If you made $1m, 30% of that would give you $25,000/mo. How do you figure?
Median household is apparently 80k now. 30 percent of that monthly is 2,000.
In my city 2,000 will rent you an infested place with water damage from the flood a year ago. But if the city comes around you have to pretend not to live there or else they’ll kick you out.
Don’t forget that household income is everyone in the house. So if you are all poor college kids with part time jobs making 15-20k a year your household income will still be close to or at the median, even though each of you are individually really poor
That’s not nearly the normal though. Dual income households are the norm by far.
Sure but any part time jobs the kids have also count towards median household income I assume
That’s like a 2 year period in an 18 year living situation.
Kids live at home a lot longer now 😂 way more than two years haha
You’d need census data to back that up.
Edit to add, you’d need to see which definition the government is using because household has a census definition and an IRS definition.
I wonder if it’s net or gross.
Besides, it’s not seven figures, just mid-six figures necessary for that.
The typical “30% on income” advice is based on gross, not net. Which is about 93,000 a year for the median mortgage payment right now.
Maybe roommates?
Just to point out, with the median mortgage at $2349 a month, it’s more like you need a household income of $93,000 a year (probably closer to $100k with utilities and other expenses) for your housing costs to equal 30% of your income. That is steep for a lot of people, but still much more attainable than 7 figures. A quick Google says that makes up around 37% of US households as of 2022. Still doesn’t quite add up to their figures, admittedly, unless “nearly half” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
I lived in a place that cost 800$ a month for a room in the bay area and I was taking home more than 60% of my income working full time.
It’s doable, and it doesn’t mean only rich people aren’t rent burdened…
You don’t need remotely close to that income level. 200k household income will get you a nice home at a reasonable price.
Oh yeah just 2.5 times the median household income, no problem. Hey while we’re here can I have a million dollar loan?
Never said it was inexpensive. It’s just not nearly as expensive as you all make it seem. 15% of the country does hit this number and 25% are close.
Y’all out pretending nobody is buying houses.
No no we know people are buying houses. It’s just hard to compete when that person is Black Rock and they bought an entire development before it even hit the market.
Corporate owners own less than 4% of single family homes.
It’s not okay and that does put pressure on the market. We should strive to minimize that.
It’s not the hellscape you want it to be. $2500/mo still buys you a 2400sq ft home in a nice neighborhood in moderate CoL areas. Again that price is out of reach for many, but home ownership rates for Gen Z is higher than millennials when adjusted for age. Most of America own their homes.
It really doesn’t mean anything to say what a home might cost in a certain area, without specifying that area. People can’t just move across the country, because they don’t have jobs. And if you’re putting them in a situation where they would have to commute an hour and a half each way, that has its own set of issues.
The numbers that you include look nice, but I’ve seen a lot of other numbers that don’t look nice. Obviously this all depends where you live, how much money you have, and what kind of place you want to buy.
And yet the home ownership rates increase.
Again, it’s far from perfect. Not the hellscape described. Again, MOST (Almost 70%), will own their homes when they retire.
Well that’s a flat out lie. CoreLogic straight up tells anyone willing to read that investors own 20-30 percent of housing in every state. And they’re 30 percent of the purchasing for houses on the market every month.
This shit is easy to find.
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/21-going-after-corporate-homebuyers-good-politics-ineffective-policy#:~:text=As of June 2022%2C the,rental properties in the US.
I’m going to go with the actual statistics here. Not this blog post.
If you move outside the city, shit gets much, much cheaper. Mortgages are easily $1,750/mo ($300k, 30yr, tax + insurance included). If your goal is to live in NYC or Seattle, you will be spending quite a bit on your chosen lifestyle. If your goal instead is to buy/rent an affordable 2-3br home, there are lots of options.
Ugh. I get really annoyed when people defend egregious housing prices with the “just live in a shitty place, in a shitty location, in the middle of a food desert, far from economic opportunities, social interactions, public transportation, and you can afford it” argument
Lol yeah exactly… Its such a brain dead take.
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There are a lot of unanswered questions here: what size is the place where you live? What is your income? How many people live with you and what is the collective income? How long is your commute? How long is the commute of the others who live with you, if there are any? What local amenities are available?
Not only that I’d be curious if 1) you’re required to own a car and all the costs associated with it, 2) the only thing really out there is chain restaurants and chain stores? 3) the only “entertainment” is a massive movie theater, and maybe a bowling alley.
Move far, far outside of populated areas and you don’t even need a mortgage.
Also known as The Unabomber Rental Mitigation Technique.
Kaczynski was unironically right about a number of things, criminal activity aside.
Like avoiding high rent by living in a shack in the woods!
Actually yes. Really. True peace is not having debt or ongoing payments being demanded of you. Living in an apartment in a city sounds like hell.
I’d rather live where it doesn’t take an ambulance or a fire truck two hours to get to me, but you do you.
“If you live where the jobs aren’t, you can afford a house.”
Cool.
The trades (electricians, etc) pay well and are in demand basically everywhere. The jobs are out there.
Ah, so this has become, “if you don’t want to pay high rent, get trained to be an electrician, then move out to some shithole, then buy a house.”
Let’s see… this says that trade school to become an electrician costs between $3000 and $19,000, so enjoy that debt- https://www.bobvila.com/articles/electrician-school-cost/
This says it then takes nine months to two years to get your trade school training, then 4,000 to 12,000 hours as an apprentice to become an electrician- https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/how-long-does-it-take-to-become-an-electrician
You’re right, this is totally a doable plan for most people to pay less rent money. Eventually.
Lets put these all together then:
I don’t know about you, but that all sounds quite reasonable. That is a nice home, student loans that are very affordable and will be paid off soon, a good job, and a promising career path. You own your home, meaning you are building equity. And, hell, you can even rent out one of the bedrooms to vastly lower that already reasonable monthly mortgage.
This may not be what you specifically want in life, but it is a very achievable goal and a comfortable life for the average man.
Yes. Very reasonable. You just need to find a way to afford rent and food for you and your kids for those seven years, at least a couple of which you won’t be earning the sort of money you could earn to move out to Shitsville, Nowhere and buy a modest home.
I’m guessing your next piece of advice would be: just don’t have kids. Because women can just vacuum those back up once they come out.
Huh, it’s like planning ahead isn’t even a thing.
Once the kid situation hits then yeah, it’s harder to make planning decisions, people’s options are limited at that point. I agree we should help people in those circumstances, but I also think we should help people make plans which avoid painting themselves into a corner.
It’s like people who were formally doing fine hit hard times, like during an economic downturn.
Where are you finding a livable home for 300k? I live in a rural area, and I love it here, but you’re never going to find a house for 300k unless you’re willing to put another 150k into stripping it down to the studs and renovating it.
Detroit Metro area. That’s what I did. Went from a $3400 rent to a $1800 mortgage. House is in great condition but I do have plans to remodel it, no rush.
They are rare but they are out there.
I was able to find a home for about $320k about 15 miles from the city. I searched for two years. My interest rate is shit. But hey, I have a house!
It was fully renovated.
I’m not saying the market isn’t shit. Because it is due to fucking investors.
I know I am lucky to have a job that pays well, even though it hasn’t kept up with inflation. I know that this isn’t the case for everyone and I’d be willing to take a hit on my home value if it meant others could buy a home too.
But my neighbors don’t feel the same way.
Now add in the cost of a car
And the cost of time spent commuting 2-3h each way to and from work every day
The last time we moved we actually did this. Kept us from paying more bills to commute longer. I highly recommend figuring out your monthly gas/mass transit bill and adding that to the price of places you’re comparing.
Also, commuting time. If you have young kids but you don’t get home until 7:30, you’re going to spend very little time on them. And possibly a lot on child care.
But even if you’re not a parent, long commutes, by car, by public transit, or both can be pretty stressful after a long day at work.