Leftists HATE capitalism. They want to replace it altogether with some alternative economic system (market socialism, planned economy or a combination of the two) depending upon the type of leftist. Differences in leftists also exist based on the HOW of replacing capitalism (violent revolution, democratic reformation and so on).
Liberals ARE NOT leftists. Liberals believe that capitalism, with all its flaws is still the least bad economic system. They recognise some flaws of the free market and think that capitalism must be regulated to a certain extent by the government.
So again, all leftists HATE capitalism. Liberals dislike a free market, but think that regulated capitalism is the least bad form of governance.
Note: I know you didn’t ask this, but just wanted to clarify - capitalism ≠ market. There’s a large group of leftists called “market socialists” who want a market without the means of production owned privately.
Liberals and leftists both don’t want encroachment of the state into personal matters. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.
Now, what we refer to as the “far right” wish for expansion of the state for “moral policing”, to conserve traditional values and so on. That includes banning abortions.
You find hypocrites in all groups. That’s what I meant when I referred to exceptions. However, if u look at raw ideology, liberals and leftists don’t want to encroach in personal matters, while conservatives most definitely do.
That’s not my experience at all - I see freedom-loving conservatives constantly propose to restrict freedoms, and liberals constantly criticize the imperfections in each other’s liberalness. “Live and let live” is a very rare attitude.
That’s kinda iffy. Liberals are still on the left, why should leftist be delegated only to democracy haters? It’s basically making a special definition that isn’t used on any common level
Ronald Reagan was a neo liberal. Would you consider him a leftist?
Also, leftists are not democracy haters. Different groups of leftists have different stances on democracy. Anarchists for example, hate the idea of a state altogether (doesn’t matter if it’s democratic or not). Market socialists want to expand democracy in the economic sphere as well, with the help of cooperatives (be it worker, consumer, hybrid and so on).
Marxist Leninists are a group of leftists that you could say are anti democracy (in the context that you are referring to). MLs believe that a revolution must be led by a vanguard party, i.e., a group of intellectuals, and smart people who truly understand Marxist theory. This vanguard party would form a state, create material conditions for democracy (educate the uneducated, or people brainwashed by capitalists). After the material conditions are created, you can achieve democracy and all associated nice things. Remember, this is in the context of violent revolutions, like the ones that took place in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba and so on.
NOW, I am NOT a Marxist Leninist. I do not condone their ideas. I will not expand upon my own ideas, as that goes beyond the scope of this discussion. The point is, not all leftists are anti-democracy. Most leftists active politically at least in the west are incredibly pro-democracy, want to expand democracy or are anti state altogether (democratic or otherwise).
A bit of a correction regarding Marxist-Leninists: they support democracy the whole way through, not just after the entire economy has been folded into the public sector and thus classes and therefore the State cease to exist. A good article on the subject of AES and Democracy is Why Do Marxists Fail to Bring the “Worker’s Paradise?”
I have a “Read Theory, Darn it!” introduction to Marxism-Leninism post if you want to glance over it, questions on democratic structures and how to achieve them are answered.
That’s a horrible misunderstanding of liberalism and leftism. Socialism is more democratic than Capitalism because it extends democratic control to production itself.
None of the answers you’ve received are really correct.
Liberalism has a specific meaning in political science. Modern Liberals support market economies, strong individual rights, and the right to own private property (not personal property like your house, car, or toothbrush - private property means capital).
I’m going to use socialism as a proxy for Leftism broadly because Socialism + Anarchism is too broad. Socialism is a political philosophy characterized by public ownership of capital (aka the means of production). That is the primary thing that binds leftists together.
Leftists view Liberalism as an improvement over feudalism, the system that it replaced, but criticize Liberals for protecting the status quo of neoliberal capitalism and the injustices, inequities, and evils it has perpetuated (slavery, colonialism, white supremacy, patriarchy, labor exploitation, etc.). They also assert that any Social Democratic reforms Liberals champion are ineffectual at addressing the core problems of capitalism.
The reason that the leftists in the meme have guns is because Leftists have historically been violently opposed to fascism and have engaged in revolutions to overthrow feudal, liberal, and fascist regimes.
After the French Revolution, they arranged the seats in the legislature with the most progressive on the left, and the most conservative on the right.
This left-right axis is often still used in modern politics.
On the American politics version of this spectrum, “liberal” defines those in the center who are in the middle and who accept whatever they are given. Leftist progressives fight for a better future.
To me, a leftist is someone who looks at the status quo and goes this is fucked up. We need to fix it.
A liberal looks at the status quo and goes “this isn’t this bad.” Think Bill Clinton or Tony Blair. Politicans who continued to maintain the status quo after their conservative predecessors.
If a leftist politician served after a conservative politician. The leftist politician would be like “fuck this” and upend the status quo.
What you are saying is only applicable for North America/ Europe. Liberalism is already the status quo there, which is why liberals defend it. However what is liberalism in the first place?
Liberalism: “Regulated capitalism is the least bad economic system. Also, the state shouldn’t encroach upon the personal matters of an individual.”
Leftists: “Capitalism is the cause of all problems. Fuck capitalism. The eventual goal should be to have a stateless, classless society. However, we disagree quite a lot on how to achieve this goal. This goal is called communism. Some of us say that we should do a violent revolution. Some of us believe that we can abolish capitalism using democratic processes. Some of us believe that to achieve communism, we need a temporary powerful state led by smart people, intellectuals, etc. to achieve material conditions necessary for communism. Some of us believe that the previous idea is absolute dog shit, and instead, we can achieve communism slowly, using non state actors like cooperatives, unions, syndicates and so on.”
Conservatives: “Capitalism is good. The morals and traditions of our ancestors were better than the ones coming up now, and deviating from them would cause a lot of harm. We need to take steps to conserve these ideas.”
Fascists: “All problems in society are because of group X. We need to get rid of group X by either converting them to our ways (if possible), deporting them from our borders, or cleansing our country of them entirely by killing them. Democracy is a slow and inefficient process. We should give power to a strong, smart leader who can get things done a lot more efficiently.”
I thought liberalism literrally meant that personal freedoms are the most important thing to that person and the belief is the government should not restrict them and needs to actively protect them.
Short answer liberals are the leftmost of the centrists,
Liberals are not “centrists.” They are right-wingers. If you are pro-capitalism, you are a right-winger. It doesn’t matter how “nice” liberals try to pretend to be about it.
Liberal is the opposite of authoritarianism. Left politicies are less capitalism and more socialism. What America calls Liberal is more authoritative than what should be considered central party. Like in the political compass “Liberals” are middle middle top right, while “conservatives” are upper middle top right.
No because a lot of it is bullshit people just drawing lines in the sand of an already silly way to plot political stances.
The truth is all liberals should be leftists. Politics leans left and right and people are broken down from there.
Currently people use the term “leftist” in too many ways but generally it suggests being against the system or capitalism. A liberal or liberalism is easy to Google but usually people mean it as left leaning folk who buy into the system, capitalism or neoliberal politics.
A Liberal was a supporter of laise faire capitalism, currently a Liberal is more of a socially minded progressive. The term changed and will continue to change.
Leftist is literally a left leaning individual that’s it. People use it a word to lump together a lot of groups especially those with a more socialist or anarchist sort of mindset. The term changed and will continue to change.
So no, they really don’t mean anything exactly and people use them different and unclearly all the time. A liberal is a leftist, even if individuals out there reject that. Politically speaking you’re either right or left leaning, are you thinking liberals are right leaning? No. Then they’re leftists lol.
The worst thing for the socialist movement are other socialists. This probably can be said about any left leaning group. Everyone has to have a different title to differentiate their leftism from other leftists
I guess I have trouble groking the difference between “liberal” and “leftist”.
Could someone summarize?
Leftists HATE capitalism. They want to replace it altogether with some alternative economic system (market socialism, planned economy or a combination of the two) depending upon the type of leftist. Differences in leftists also exist based on the HOW of replacing capitalism (violent revolution, democratic reformation and so on).
Liberals ARE NOT leftists. Liberals believe that capitalism, with all its flaws is still the least bad economic system. They recognise some flaws of the free market and think that capitalism must be regulated to a certain extent by the government.
So again, all leftists HATE capitalism. Liberals dislike a free market, but think that regulated capitalism is the least bad form of governance.
Note: I know you didn’t ask this, but just wanted to clarify - capitalism ≠ market. There’s a large group of leftists called “market socialists” who want a market without the means of production owned privately.
So which ones don’t want abortions to be banned because Romans nailed a guy to a cross?
Liberals and leftists both don’t want encroachment of the state into personal matters. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.
Now, what we refer to as the “far right” wish for expansion of the state for “moral policing”, to conserve traditional values and so on. That includes banning abortions.
Yup. While left and right are vastly different, one thing that’s consistent between them is “[whatever] is not evil when WE do it.”
You find hypocrites in all groups. That’s what I meant when I referred to exceptions. However, if u look at raw ideology, liberals and leftists don’t want to encroach in personal matters, while conservatives most definitely do.
That’s not my experience at all - I see freedom-loving conservatives constantly propose to restrict freedoms, and liberals constantly criticize the imperfections in each other’s liberalness. “Live and let live” is a very rare attitude.
That’s kinda iffy. Liberals are still on the left, why should leftist be delegated only to democracy haters? It’s basically making a special definition that isn’t used on any common level
Ronald Reagan was a neo liberal. Would you consider him a leftist?
Also, leftists are not democracy haters. Different groups of leftists have different stances on democracy. Anarchists for example, hate the idea of a state altogether (doesn’t matter if it’s democratic or not). Market socialists want to expand democracy in the economic sphere as well, with the help of cooperatives (be it worker, consumer, hybrid and so on).
Marxist Leninists are a group of leftists that you could say are anti democracy (in the context that you are referring to). MLs believe that a revolution must be led by a vanguard party, i.e., a group of intellectuals, and smart people who truly understand Marxist theory. This vanguard party would form a state, create material conditions for democracy (educate the uneducated, or people brainwashed by capitalists). After the material conditions are created, you can achieve democracy and all associated nice things. Remember, this is in the context of violent revolutions, like the ones that took place in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba and so on.
NOW, I am NOT a Marxist Leninist. I do not condone their ideas. I will not expand upon my own ideas, as that goes beyond the scope of this discussion. The point is, not all leftists are anti-democracy. Most leftists active politically at least in the west are incredibly pro-democracy, want to expand democracy or are anti state altogether (democratic or otherwise).
A bit of a correction regarding Marxist-Leninists: they support democracy the whole way through, not just after the entire economy has been folded into the public sector and thus classes and therefore the State cease to exist. A good article on the subject of AES and Democracy is Why Do Marxists Fail to Bring the “Worker’s Paradise?”
I have a “Read Theory, Darn it!” introduction to Marxism-Leninism post if you want to glance over it, questions on democratic structures and how to achieve them are answered.
That’s a horrible misunderstanding of liberalism and leftism. Socialism is more democratic than Capitalism because it extends democratic control to production itself.
None of the answers you’ve received are really correct.
Liberalism has a specific meaning in political science. Modern Liberals support market economies, strong individual rights, and the right to own private property (not personal property like your house, car, or toothbrush - private property means capital).
I’m going to use socialism as a proxy for Leftism broadly because Socialism + Anarchism is too broad. Socialism is a political philosophy characterized by public ownership of capital (aka the means of production). That is the primary thing that binds leftists together.
Leftists view Liberalism as an improvement over feudalism, the system that it replaced, but criticize Liberals for protecting the status quo of neoliberal capitalism and the injustices, inequities, and evils it has perpetuated (slavery, colonialism, white supremacy, patriarchy, labor exploitation, etc.). They also assert that any Social Democratic reforms Liberals champion are ineffectual at addressing the core problems of capitalism.
The reason that the leftists in the meme have guns is because Leftists have historically been violently opposed to fascism and have engaged in revolutions to overthrow feudal, liberal, and fascist regimes.
Only partly true. Liberals support capitalist markets, but not worker owned markets (worker co-ops, market socialism.)
Yeah that’s a fair point
That’s a very diplomatic way of saying liberals are pro-capitalism and pro-imperialism.
After the French Revolution, they arranged the seats in the legislature with the most progressive on the left, and the most conservative on the right.
This left-right axis is often still used in modern politics.
On the American politics version of this spectrum, “liberal” defines those in the center who are in the middle and who accept whatever they are given. Leftist progressives fight for a better future.
Okay liberal
Liberal plays by the established rules.
Leftist revolts and fights back.
Liberals die on their knees, leftists die standing.
To me, a leftist is someone who looks at the status quo and goes this is fucked up. We need to fix it.
A liberal looks at the status quo and goes “this isn’t this bad.” Think Bill Clinton or Tony Blair. Politicans who continued to maintain the status quo after their conservative predecessors.
If a leftist politician served after a conservative politician. The leftist politician would be like “fuck this” and upend the status quo.
What you are saying is only applicable for North America/ Europe. Liberalism is already the status quo there, which is why liberals defend it. However what is liberalism in the first place?
Liberalism: “Regulated capitalism is the least bad economic system. Also, the state shouldn’t encroach upon the personal matters of an individual.”
Leftists: “Capitalism is the cause of all problems. Fuck capitalism. The eventual goal should be to have a stateless, classless society. However, we disagree quite a lot on how to achieve this goal. This goal is called communism. Some of us say that we should do a violent revolution. Some of us believe that we can abolish capitalism using democratic processes. Some of us believe that to achieve communism, we need a temporary powerful state led by smart people, intellectuals, etc. to achieve material conditions necessary for communism. Some of us believe that the previous idea is absolute dog shit, and instead, we can achieve communism slowly, using non state actors like cooperatives, unions, syndicates and so on.”
Conservatives: “Capitalism is good. The morals and traditions of our ancestors were better than the ones coming up now, and deviating from them would cause a lot of harm. We need to take steps to conserve these ideas.”
Fascists: “All problems in society are because of group X. We need to get rid of group X by either converting them to our ways (if possible), deporting them from our borders, or cleansing our country of them entirely by killing them. Democracy is a slow and inefficient process. We should give power to a strong, smart leader who can get things done a lot more efficiently.”
Sounds like conservatism in the US needs to be relabeled as regressivism.
I thought liberalism literrally meant that personal freedoms are the most important thing to that person and the belief is the government should not restrict them and needs to actively protect them.
That’s one of their beliefs, sure. However, their economic beliefs are still kinda pro capitalism.
Fair, I’m just curious why ShaggySnacks mentioned the status quo thing when personal freedoms are being encroached on and revoked.
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Liberals are not “centrists.” They are right-wingers. If you are pro-capitalism, you are a right-winger. It doesn’t matter how “nice” liberals try to pretend to be about it.
No ifs, ands or buts.
Liberal is the opposite of authoritarianism. Left politicies are less capitalism and more socialism. What America calls Liberal is more authoritative than what should be considered central party. Like in the political compass “Liberals” are middle middle top right, while “conservatives” are upper middle top right.
Not a visual learner eh.
No because a lot of it is bullshit people just drawing lines in the sand of an already silly way to plot political stances.
The truth is all liberals should be leftists. Politics leans left and right and people are broken down from there.
Currently people use the term “leftist” in too many ways but generally it suggests being against the system or capitalism. A liberal or liberalism is easy to Google but usually people mean it as left leaning folk who buy into the system, capitalism or neoliberal politics.
Just because you don’t know what words mean doesn’t mean no one does.
Lmfao it’s literally in the names but okay.
A Liberal was a supporter of laise faire capitalism, currently a Liberal is more of a socially minded progressive. The term changed and will continue to change.
Leftist is literally a left leaning individual that’s it. People use it a word to lump together a lot of groups especially those with a more socialist or anarchist sort of mindset. The term changed and will continue to change.
So no, they really don’t mean anything exactly and people use them different and unclearly all the time. A liberal is a leftist, even if individuals out there reject that. Politically speaking you’re either right or left leaning, are you thinking liberals are right leaning? No. Then they’re leftists lol.
The worst thing for the socialist movement are other socialists. This probably can be said about any left leaning group. Everyone has to have a different title to differentiate their leftism from other leftists
Dumb people, lol
I’m the good kind and those idiots are the bad kind.
Leftists want full auto space communism.
Liberals want rights and liberties for all.
Both can overlap or not depending.
FTFY.
Neolibs maybe. Not typical libs