• @[email protected]OP
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    13919 hours ago

    I hope this case gets some attention too. This is some ginned up bullshit. We can’t let them stomp us into silence.

    I’m not celebrating a murder, this is some fucked up shit in many dimensions and I would prefer a different timeline.

    But remember we are not children who need to bow our heads and take our scolding.

    For-profit insurance companies are liable for the deaths they cause. Full stop.

    How’s that for moral clarity?

    • Neuromancer
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      3817 hours ago

      She should not be charged in my opinion. It wasn’t a credible threat.

      What the shootings has done is shown how many Americans are fed up with the current system.

      You’re seeing stories from democrat and republicans.

      I don’t condone the violence at all but he may have sparked a medical revolution in our country.

      • masterofn001
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        2216 hours ago

        Saying (paraphrased) “you’re next” is not a threat. It’s an observation.

        She made no threat.

        • Neuromancer
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          2 hours ago

          I’m not a person who does protest but I would march for changes to our medical system. While I’ve had a positive experience, the stories I’m hearing are mind blowing. It’s beyond absurd. Even if 90% of them were false. It’s still too many horrible stories but I suspect they are mostly true.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 hours ago

            Mostly the same. My biggest headache has been some of my dependents have secondary insurance and no matter which company I’ve been with at the time, they always assume all of the do and will forget multiple times a year which are which and deny all of them claims until I talk to them because there are of course no self serve options there.

            I also care for a child who is on medicaid, never any problems there. All the scary news on how I shouldn’t be able to find providers has never been an issue and they are many medical conditions.

            Those are the stories I call bullshit on. They want us to be afraid of single payer so they over emphasize lack of care while ignoring the people who directly pay and actually lack care.

            • Neuromancer
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              154 minutes ago

              I always assumed that everyone’s experience was similar to mine. That’s why these stories have been mind blowing.

              I needed a PA for a very expensive mediation that most insurances deny. Uhc did deny it but then called the provider and walked them through the forms to get it covered. All in the same day.

              Yet you read about them deny cancer medication.

              I support a dual system where everyone has coverage but people can have private as well. That’s the Australian model. I think that would be easier to pass in America.

              All I know is this drew the average person to speak out against our medical system.

          • @[email protected]
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            03 hours ago

            While I’ve had a positive experience

            Let me guess, still on parents insurance or never had insurance through an employer?

            • Neuromancer
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              23 hours ago

              I’m 51. I’ve always had health insurance through my employer. Never an issue. Most of my career has been in tech companies where the insurance is much better than the average company I’ve discovered.

              • @[email protected]
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                12 hours ago

                I’m only a few years younger and have pretty much always had shitty/non-existent insurance until the last decade.

                Without revealing too much about myself, my employer just switched their provider to UHC this year so you can imagine I’m watching all this intently.

                • Neuromancer
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                  12 hours ago

                  I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with them and I’ve had them on and off for thirty years.

                  That said, I think it’s because tech has better insurance than I realized. Many of the stories coming out are from uhc and I believe them

      • @[email protected]OP
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        617 hours ago

        Do you have any links to conservative takes on this? I know full well I am in a bubble and that’s the way I god damn like it. But in this case, knowing the universality of the sentiment would be really, umm, empowering?

        • Neuromancer
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          2417 hours ago

          Well I am a conservative and mostly associate with conservatives. Talking to my liberal friends, their take is almost identical to my Republican friends.

          I don’t think people realized how aligned everyone is on this issue.

          It’s the stories that are coming out that is making people talk about this topic. Those stories were ignored until the CEO was murdered.

          People denied cancer treatment. wtf.

          • @[email protected]
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            24 hours ago

            I live in an area so red that if you saw it you’d say it was bleeding. The people here always, and I mean always, talk about how wrong it is for someone to act as a vigilante, and murder is wrong, and the insurance companies might be not-the-best, but it’s no excuse… bla bla bla. They think the woman here is in the wrong, and don’t even care.

            See the recent slew of posts about the new york times for the conservative take on the issue.

    • @givesomefucks
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      19 hours ago

      This is some ginned up bullshit.

      The “you’re next” after referencing a high profile murder is what actually did it.

      Like, that’s a credible threat. 15 years is fucking insane, and context is going to matter a lot. Did she just get denied cancer treatment for her 2 year old? Or told it’s not insurance’s fault doctors won’t prescribe opioids? Or any of a million things in between.

      That’s why we have trials, to find out all that stuff. And if it’s a jury trial I feel juries would be sympathetic.

      The 100k is the real bullshit, but not owning guns doesn’t mean much. It’s insanely easy to buy a gun without a background check thru private seller loopholes.

      But our bond system is insane, because the it causes judges to inflate the amount 10x. If you can afford to put it up, you get it all back later. A bondsman you pay 10%, they put up 90%, and they get the whole 100% back. Your 10% is their profit. If a bondsman thinks that’s a good risk, why does the court consistently over estimate the risk?

      • @[email protected]
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        35 hours ago

        Work any phone helpdesk job and you will be threatened six ways to Sunday by people who are upset over the most minor things.

        Yes this incident came after very prominent consequences for an insurer in the US, but I would be hard pressed to believe that someone who works for a company that denies people lifesaving healthcare hasn’t heard worse.

        • @givesomefucks
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          14 hours ago

          I did for a couple years, we’d have reported this too.

          Anyone would…

          • @[email protected]
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            13 hours ago

            And they did, I was threatened multiple times at a Sprint call center and reported it.

            We all did, cops never even take a report, weird that the health insurance people get special treatment.

      • @Serinus
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        3119 hours ago

        credible

        able to be believed; convincing

        Did anyone really think she was coming after them after that? No. She got heated on the phone and said something she shouldn’t have.

        It’s not nothing. What she did was wrong, and it’s reasonable for it to be a crime. We don’t want to always have to investigate or deal with constant threats. However, she was neither credible nor specific, which are two major criteria. (Keep that in mind when you’re posting here, by the way.) She committed a crime, but not one that should be very serious.

        The way they’ve framed her is obscene.

        • @givesomefucks
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          -518 hours ago

          The way they’ve framed her is obscene.

          You’re factoring in what you already know about this woman and letting that influence if it was credible.

          The people she was on the phone likely know nothing about her besides what was discussed on the call and the threat. That should be reported, and should be investigated.

          The bigger issue about framing is the media running headlines that it was just the “deny, defend, despise” that resulted in charges.

          A cynic would say that was by order of the owners hoping to discourage a movement, even tho any idiot could have told them it would have the opposite and inflame people.

          Which it obviously has.

          I like to think at some point people realized this would backfire, and just held their tongue. But I’m an optimist when I can be.

          • @grue
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            14 hours ago

            The people she was on the phone likely know nothing about her besides what was discussed on the call and the threat.

            Likewise, she knew nothing about them. A threat against some random customer service agent in a company so huge you have no idea even what country the call center is in is categorically not credible!

          • @Serinus
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            1618 hours ago

            That should be reported, and should be investigated.

            Yes. Certainly.

            But the bigger issue is that the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. It’s going to cost some resources from law enforcement, and that needs to be punished because we don’t want people like this regularly draining our tax dollars. But any punishment more than probation and/or community service is obscene.

            They’ve framed her as a terrorist, and she’s clearly not.

            • @givesomefucks
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              -116 hours ago

              But the bigger issue is that the punishment doesn’t fit the crime

              Yes, that’s why the rest of my comment was essentially what you wrote, just more in depth…

      • @[email protected]
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        714 hours ago

        “The car on the other side of the zipper merge is going now. You’re next.”

        It doesn’t mean I intend to do anything, I’m just observing society.

      • @[email protected]OP
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        1919 hours ago

        Thanks for the insight on the typical terms of bonds. Good info.

        So eyes peeled on this one too I guess. They are making an example of her, I mean the judge plainly said so. We can’t let them get away with these excessive charges.

        I didn’t kill anyone and I never will. But I will be damned if I let this moment fade into the next news cycle.

        As a society, we are having the conversation about for-profit healthcare NOW!

        • @givesomefucks
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          18 hours ago

          They are making an example of her,

          Yep, which is opening them up to civil suits, but is an open secret about our justice system.

          As a society, we are having the conversation about for-profit healthcare NOW!

          Think of it like the fediverse. Last year a big event made a lot of us ditch reddit, but some had already been here, and for the majority it wasn’t enough for them to change behavior.

          I don’t think Luigi is the big event that causes permanent change, there’s been a lot of people who have been pushing for healthcare reform, 20 years isn’t rare, some for decades longer.

          The first presidential candidate who had universal healthcare as a part of the party platform was Teddy Roosevelt in 1920…

          It’s a century long fight against the healthcare industry, and it’s not going to be as easy as what just happened to change shit as long as all of our options in general elections have already been bought off.

          We reference dogs who catch a car everytime Republicans win majorities and the presidency, but on 1/7/2020 Joe Biden didn’t leap into action, he “looked into” things for so long we lost the House and had an excuse not to do anything. “Winning” by electing a moderate only depresses turnout in midterms and the next presidential cycle.

          We have to grow up and admit that or absolutely nothing will really change. The first step is understanding the root cause or we’ll never stop fighting symptoms.

          • @[email protected]OP
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            418 hours ago

            What are you talking about? You just sort of wandered off in the middle there. If I sus your point, we just have to accept it? Or that it will be a gradual erosion?

            You can sit there and be all wise. I’m going to keep shitting on insurance executives and encouraging others to do the same.

            • @givesomefucks
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              316 hours ago

              If I sus your point, we just have to accept it? Or that it will be a gradual erosion?

              Nope, it’s that Joe Biden wouldn’t fix it, and neither would Kamala, hell, the biggest recipient of UHC donations was Kamala

              https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/unitedhealth-group/summary?id=D000000348

              I’m going to keep shitting on insurance executives and encouraging others to do the same.

              No one’s saying you shouldn’t.

              I’m just saying we also need to shit on the investors.

              And the politicians from both parties they bought to prevent us from fixing anything.

              We won’t win this thru the courts, they said with the money.

              We won’t win this with politicians who took the money either, we can only win if we first win in the Dem primary. Lose there and we’ll keep losing.

              I want to actually fix the problem, and am talking about how

              You want to fix a symptom, and it’s a major symptom, but we’ll be fighting the problem at the same time so why not fix the problem so fixing this (and other) symptoms is easy?

              You can sit there and be all wise

              In general you do t insult people because you don’t understand, but I provided clarification anyways because this is important. Others won’t.