I know. It is also bigoted to say you’re not surprised by a white South African being racist. That’s like saying you’re not surprised by a black African American being a criminal.
The logical error here is assuming it’s about skin colour when it’s in fact about centuries of exploitation in Africa that Musk benefited hugely from. I suppose it’s not a logical error if one doesn’t know about the history of colonialism in Africa.
It’s reasonable to assume that any white person who lived in southern Africa (Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa in particular) moved there not for the safari or the lifestyle but for the eye-watering profits that came from exploiting the land as their resource and its peoples as their labour. A lot of contrarian arguments that get voted down on the internet focus on the minority view, and I think this is where you’re coming from - unfortunately in the case of colonial Africa, there aren’t very many clean hands at all, even if they weren’t the ones being cut off.
I don’t think it’s a logical error to assume it’s about race when the original comment did not specify otherwise.
Edit: It was also further confirmed by the commenter LowestStone that they themselves at least were looking at the race angle.
I understand your point about colonialism well and the fact that many white people who went to South Africa went there for the profits of human exploitation, but is this historical background enough to conclude that it is expected of a white South African to be racist? That’s the problem i have with the initial comment i responded to. It doesn’t differ much from reverse racism to me.
There seems to be a culture of hating one’s own race in order to make up for colonialism and racism among white people. This is simply not necessary.
Also, I wouldn’t frame it the way you framed it, but I don’t think it is racist to say “I’m not surprised by a Black American having a criminal record”. Not because Black Americans are predisposed to crime, but because they are targeted by overpolicing and system racism lmao.
you’re the guy who said that we can’t say the police is a racist organization because there are black cops. I wouldn’t be too involved in race conversations if I were you tbh.
I’m a white guy from Indiana. And if Elon Musk was from Indiana and someone said, “a guy from Indiana made his app anti-black? Shocking.” I’d be like, “I know, right? This state is full of racist as fuck white people.” I wouldn’t be offended.
But he’s not from Indiana though. The point I’m trying to make is that the commenter posed an unfair stereotype which suggested that white South Africans are proclived to racism even though there are no facts to support that argument. There is however evidence to suggest that Indianans or Idahoans or whatever other white inhabitants of famously racist US states are proclived to racism.
You’re right, he’s from an even more racist place. So I’m not sure why you think that’s an unfair stereotype when it is a fair one for a U.S. state that never had apartheid or slavery.
It’s because it isn’t clear to me that white South Africans of present are majorly racists. I’ve tried to look up stats and studies and it’s all anecdotal. Sure, it’s there, but there’s no evidence suggesting it’s widespread enough to make generalisations.
Oh, so the oppressed aren’t allowed to dismantle their oppressors? They must rise above and be civil? They are the ones that must be kind and courteous to those who would subjugate them further?
That’s kinda bigoted
It’s bigoted to invade a county and extort them for labor because you believe the native population to be inferior.
I know. It is also bigoted to say you’re not surprised by a white South African being racist. That’s like saying you’re not surprised by a black African American being a criminal.
No it fucking isn’t
Yes it is. You’re making a judgement about both groups based on the colour of their skin
If it makes you feel any better, I’m pre-judging Musk based on his bank account.
Then it’s more like imperialist white South Africans, so judge away.
Wow …no you’re not. Jesus, where did you learn logic???
Since you’re so knowledgeable about logic Mr. Philosophy, why don’t you go ahead and tell me what is wrong with my comparison.
Also, you’re lucky I’m not blasting you for that atrocious punctuation
The logical error here is assuming it’s about skin colour when it’s in fact about centuries of exploitation in Africa that Musk benefited hugely from. I suppose it’s not a logical error if one doesn’t know about the history of colonialism in Africa.
It’s reasonable to assume that any white person who lived in southern Africa (Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa in particular) moved there not for the safari or the lifestyle but for the eye-watering profits that came from exploiting the land as their resource and its peoples as their labour. A lot of contrarian arguments that get voted down on the internet focus on the minority view, and I think this is where you’re coming from - unfortunately in the case of colonial Africa, there aren’t very many clean hands at all, even if they weren’t the ones being cut off.
I don’t think it’s a logical error to assume it’s about race when the original comment did not specify otherwise.
Edit: It was also further confirmed by the commenter LowestStone that they themselves at least were looking at the race angle.
I understand your point about colonialism well and the fact that many white people who went to South Africa went there for the profits of human exploitation, but is this historical background enough to conclude that it is expected of a white South African to be racist? That’s the problem i have with the initial comment i responded to. It doesn’t differ much from reverse racism to me.
There seems to be a culture of hating one’s own race in order to make up for colonialism and racism among white people. This is simply not necessary.
Also, I wouldn’t frame it the way you framed it, but I don’t think it is racist to say “I’m not surprised by a Black American having a criminal record”. Not because Black Americans are predisposed to crime, but because they are targeted by overpolicing and system racism lmao.
Edit: 1/7ish Black American Men have been to prison. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5996985/#:~:text=We estimate that 3 %25 of,African American adult male population.
We had to invent a new term to describe the racism of white south Africans, they’ve earned a little suspicion.
you’re the guy who said that we can’t say the police is a racist organization because there are black cops. I wouldn’t be too involved in race conversations if I were you tbh.
I admit that one might have been a bad take in hindsight, but my stance is unshakeable on this issue
I’m a white guy from Indiana. And if Elon Musk was from Indiana and someone said, “a guy from Indiana made his app anti-black? Shocking.” I’d be like, “I know, right? This state is full of racist as fuck white people.” I wouldn’t be offended.
But he’s not from Indiana though. The point I’m trying to make is that the commenter posed an unfair stereotype which suggested that white South Africans are proclived to racism even though there are no facts to support that argument. There is however evidence to suggest that Indianans or Idahoans or whatever other white inhabitants of famously racist US states are proclived to racism.
Do you see my point?
You’re right, he’s from an even more racist place. So I’m not sure why you think that’s an unfair stereotype when it is a fair one for a U.S. state that never had apartheid or slavery.
🙆
Interesting how eager you were for me to see your point, and when I responded to it, all you did was troll.
I guess I shouldn’t have expected any better.
How is that a troll comment?
What did i do to you? Sounds like you have some animosity towards me
Sounds like you can’t explain why the stereotype fits for Indiana and not South Africa.
It’s because it isn’t clear to me that white South Africans of present are majorly racists. I’ve tried to look up stats and studies and it’s all anecdotal. Sure, it’s there, but there’s no evidence suggesting it’s widespread enough to make generalisations.
You know South Africa had(has?) apartheid, right? Culturally, yes, they are proclived to racism.
edit: yeah it ended in 1990(1994?). Lmao. Within the last 30 years they were an apartheid state.
Oh no. White people being the target of bigotry? Welcome to the fucking club that they started.
Are you being serious lol
Yes.
Just calling out the double standard man. We don’t have to continue a bad practice.
Oh, so the oppressed aren’t allowed to dismantle their oppressors? They must rise above and be civil? They are the ones that must be kind and courteous to those who would subjugate them further?
What kind of bootlicker are you?
Are you fucking dumb?
No.
You, on the other hand…
Sir, you are bringing logic to a Lemmy thread where only emotion matters. It doesn’t seem to be going well for you frankly.
It’s flawed logic. Being kind and civil to one’s oppressors is literally further oppression.
Were you one of those people bitching about the 2020 George Floyd protests, too?
I don’t know why i still bother honestly; only to be labelled a fascist/Nazi once they’re done with the downvote bombing. It’s disgusting.