• @chonglibloodsport
    link
    English
    5812 hours ago

    That’s not a well-founded assumption. The average age of first birth was only 21 as recently as 1970. Go back a few hundred years and it’s way younger than that. Many women throughout history became mothers as soon as they were able (right after the onset of puberty). Many cultures had rites of passage into adulthood for boys and girls of that age. There was no such thing as adolescence.

    • @Acamon
      link
      English
      197 hours ago

      As the other commentator says, medieval Europe was mostly early twenties. Studies of stone age remains suggest a first birth age average of 19.5 and contemporary hunter gather societies have a comparable average. Sexual activity generally begins earlier, during adolescence, but the most “reproductively successful” age for beginning childbearing has been shown to be around 18-19. Also, this age at first birth isnt “Average age of a child’s mother” as many women would have multiple kids over their life, so the average sibling would have a much older mother at birth than the firstborn.

      Its important to remember that puberty has shifted massively since industrialisation, "menarche age has receded from 16.5 years in 1880 to the current 12.5 years in western societies". So the post-puberty fecundity peak, that use to happen 17-19, when women are fully grown enough to minimise birth complications, now happens at a disressingly young 13-15. Not only is this a big social yuck for most western societies, but it’s reproductively unideal, because of the complications linked to childbirth at that age.

      • @Fritee
        link
        English
        74 hours ago

        Huh, that’s interesting. Do we know why the menarche age has receded?

        • @shneancy
          link
          English
          2
          edit-2
          2 hours ago

          if you click that second study link it’s exactly about that

    • @HonoraryMancunian
      link
      English
      88 hours ago

      First births yes, but what about average age? Our ancestors may have been second born, third born, eighth born etc

      • @chonglibloodsport
        link
        English
        3
        edit-2
        7 hours ago

        High maternal mortality meant that having more than about 7 children per woman was rare. Total fertility rate was about 4.5 to 7 in the pre modern era. Population growth was low due to infant and early childhood mortality though.

        If you start having children at age 12, you can have a child every year and reach 7 children by age 20. Without contraceptives, people weren’t having such large multi-year gaps between children like we do now.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          128 minutes ago

          Based on my own genealogical research, the trend I typically saw was 6-8 kids, between 18 and early 30s, about 20% of which died. Plus consider that some of those will be sons, and some daughters never become mothers, 25 is pretty spot on for the average age for a mother-to-mother generational gap.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      4311 hours ago

      In Western Europe at least back to the early medieval period it was common for anyone who wasn’t nobility to have their first child around 22. The younger you are the more likely you’re going to have serious (fatal, back then) complications. It was the nobility that was marrying off barely pubescent kids.

      • Sabre363
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1011 hours ago

        Could we say (for no other reason than I’m stoned and it sounds good) the rough average mother-age is 18-ish? Then there would be roughly ~110 mothers since Jesus cheated and respawned for our sins.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          710 hours ago

          No idea, I’m not as read up on that. It would shock me if it was significantly different just because risk of death from complications is a hard biological line the younger you get, pre-modern medicine.

          • @chonglibloodsport
            link
            English
            110 hours ago

            There are definitely cultures who have practiced polygyny to get around this issue. Some still do today, for example in many different countries in Africa where people still practice a pastoral life.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              6
              edit-2
              9 hours ago

              I don’t see how polygyny gets around the issue of risk of death from pregnancy.

              Polygyny would get around the issue of men getting killed.

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  2
                  edit-2
                  3 hours ago

                  Edit: This first point was wrong, but the second point still stands.

                  Polygyny wouldn’t solve the aforementioned problem if we suppose that the birth rate of men and women is roughly the same. If one man has many wives, some of whom even die, then several other men won’t have any wives.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      4
      edit-2
      8 hours ago

      Maybe 23 would be a better average, but even if wvery women in your line gave birth at 12.5 that only doubles the other. And its fair to say not every mother would have been a first child. Also many still would have been born later than 25, so it probably evens out pretty well.