Not so clear what you mean with “not working” here. Tariffs are costly to both countries. To Mexico because Mexican products become more costly in the US, which reduces demand. To Americans because consumer prices go up. So it’s a lose-lose. Now if Mexico enacts counter tariffs, you get to a lose-lose-lose-lose.
Now who is the biggest loser crucially depends on the size of the countries and how important trade is. For Mexico trade with the US is much more important than vice versa. These tariffs would be devastating to Mexico. So if that’s what you mean with “working” yeah sure tariffs work.
What’s important to realise is that these tariffs were enacted without clear demands. So without a clear intention it is impossible to define whether it works. Another point is that such generic barriers to trade are usually reserved for rogue states like Venezuela. Enacting them against arguably your closest friends is a huge escalation of the instrument, and in the long run leaves you without friends.
They’re only “folding” because they’re essentially being asked to do nothing or getting agreements they’ve wanted for ages, none of which required a trade war. In the article Mexico supposedly is getting help with weapons trafficked from the US to Mexico, something they’ve wanted for a while and the only thing they agreed to was to put some troops near the border. There’s no substantive mention of any work done towards the “trade deficit” Trump was yelling about.
So yeah it “worked” but only in areas we could have achieved with a friendly phone call without all the bullshit trump is doing. Anyone with enough of a brain to understand you can do those things without baseless threats could’ve done what Trump did faster and with less blowback.
Here’s the thing. They’re still folding. They’re still giving Trump wins. They’re still playing Trump’s game by Trump’s rules. And all it does is embolden him and make him become more brazen.
Look at it this way. Trump had already gotten Canada to blink by making them commit $1.3 billion to a “Border crisis” that doesn’t exist. And how did Trump repay them? By turning around and suddenly deciding that wasn’t good enough and slapping even higher tariffs on them in order to extract more concessions. Why not? It’s like a scammer going back to re-victimize a previous victim, because they already know that they’re an easier target that will cave easily. If Canada gives concessions again this time, what do you think Trump is going to demand the next time? And there will be a next time…
Look at Denmark. Trump’s play for Denmark was originally written off by Denmark saying that “Greenland is not for sale.” and writing off the whole thing as the ramblings of a dementia patient. Then they blinked and said “Well, Greenland would have to…and I don’t think they would do that.”. They went from a hard no to “well, ackshually…”, which was more than enough for Trump to escalate this from some demented ramblings into people talking about making a serious play for Greenland even if they have to use force.
Never mind giving this man an inch and him taking a yard. Give this man a millimeter and he’s taking a light-year. Give this man even the slightest, most worthless token of a concession and all he will do is come back for more and more. These countries need to learn that you cannot play Trump’s games by Trump’s rules. They need to issue a hard “no”, and most importantly fucking stick with it.
Canada and Mexico have already given repeated concessions to Trump and look where it got them. Both of them need to start telling Trump to fuck all the way off and not give him even the most worthless token of a concession. All he’ll do is just renege on the deal anyway and come back asking for more the next time he needs to manufacture a crisis to distract the rubes from something.
You know how Kim Jong Un starts making all sorts of nuclear threats and ignoring treaties every time he needs aid or just wants attention, just so he can extract concessions and ignore the new treaty next time he wants attention? That’s what Trump is doing now.
This exactly. I’m in the us and I wish it weren’t the case, but if I was in another country I would suggest just treating America the way we do Cuba. Cuba should not have the restrictions it does, but we ostensibly are doing that because of the government, so if people need to treat America like a rogue state to get things to change, then they should. No trades at all. Gas is our main export, so that is less than ideal, since a lot of countries are trying to stay away from Russian gas, though some have returned, but honestly you can’t just make deals with fascists. Hitler was elected too. Just because someone is elected doesn’t mean it should be acceptable to make deals on their terms.
You know how Kim Jong Un starts making all sorts of nuclear threats and ignoring treaties every time he needs aid or just wants attention, just so he can extract concessions and ignore the new treaty next time he wants attention? That’s what Trump is doing now.
And North Korea doesn’t look great so I guess we’d have to quibble over what you mean by working. If you only mean working to stroke Trump’s ego, then sure. If you mean it as in getting anything meaningful then no I still have to say it’s not working.
It does “work” for North Korea, to a degree. Does it accomplish anything meaningful outside of stroking Kim’s ego? No. But it “works” in that Un is able to keep the cycle of issuing threats and making demands, getting concessions in the form of food aid or some token publicity stunt or whatever in exchange for halting nuclear activities, then reneging on those promises the next time they need food aid or want attention going.
What it accomplishes is a matter of debate. But it does “work” in the fact that it accomplishes the goal of giving “Dear Leader” an ego boost and having something to show to the rubes so he can brag about how big his dick is. And that’s all the incentive he needs to keep playing.
You know how a toddler learns that if he pulls a big enough temper tantrum, eventually mommy will give him the attention and the shiny toy he wants? Other countries need to learn the same lesson that mommy eventually learns: Ignore the toddler and let him thrash about in his playpen until he tires himself out and eventually he’ll learn that his behavior won’t get him what he wants. People still haven’t learned this, unfortunately, when it comes to Trump.
the only thing they agreed to was to put some troops near the border.
10k is a bit more than “some”, imo. But it still means that Mexico caved to demands, no? Why wouldn’t they do it before if all it took was a phone call?
Sidenote, I’m asking these questions because I truly don’t understand. I’m not trying to start anything here, except maybe some educational comments
Trump’s boots on the border crap looks good, but it won’t solve the why people are trying to get in. To do that would require undoing decades of CIA meddling in Latin America, and frankly money to help fix the systemic issues that caused. I’ll leave 6 quick links below on that history.
The tarrifs don’t really matter. That’s not the point, it’s the distraction. Especially in this case. He wants to make it a common practice that foreign countries roll over for him. They think if a couple of our neighbors roll over, they can convince Denmark to roll over.
This is what a bully does. Threaten and threaten. It hides the inherent weakness because they don’t want to actually fight.
Can someone explain how these tarrifs are simultaneously not working, but also foreign leaders are folding?
Signed, a confused European
Not so clear what you mean with “not working” here. Tariffs are costly to both countries. To Mexico because Mexican products become more costly in the US, which reduces demand. To Americans because consumer prices go up. So it’s a lose-lose. Now if Mexico enacts counter tariffs, you get to a lose-lose-lose-lose.
Now who is the biggest loser crucially depends on the size of the countries and how important trade is. For Mexico trade with the US is much more important than vice versa. These tariffs would be devastating to Mexico. So if that’s what you mean with “working” yeah sure tariffs work.
What’s important to realise is that these tariffs were enacted without clear demands. So without a clear intention it is impossible to define whether it works. Another point is that such generic barriers to trade are usually reserved for rogue states like Venezuela. Enacting them against arguably your closest friends is a huge escalation of the instrument, and in the long run leaves you without friends.
They’re only “folding” because they’re essentially being asked to do nothing or getting agreements they’ve wanted for ages, none of which required a trade war. In the article Mexico supposedly is getting help with weapons trafficked from the US to Mexico, something they’ve wanted for a while and the only thing they agreed to was to put some troops near the border. There’s no substantive mention of any work done towards the “trade deficit” Trump was yelling about.
So yeah it “worked” but only in areas we could have achieved with a friendly phone call without all the bullshit trump is doing. Anyone with enough of a brain to understand you can do those things without baseless threats could’ve done what Trump did faster and with less blowback.
Here’s the thing. They’re still folding. They’re still giving Trump wins. They’re still playing Trump’s game by Trump’s rules. And all it does is embolden him and make him become more brazen.
Look at it this way. Trump had already gotten Canada to blink by making them commit $1.3 billion to a “Border crisis” that doesn’t exist. And how did Trump repay them? By turning around and suddenly deciding that wasn’t good enough and slapping even higher tariffs on them in order to extract more concessions. Why not? It’s like a scammer going back to re-victimize a previous victim, because they already know that they’re an easier target that will cave easily. If Canada gives concessions again this time, what do you think Trump is going to demand the next time? And there will be a next time…
Look at Denmark. Trump’s play for Denmark was originally written off by Denmark saying that “Greenland is not for sale.” and writing off the whole thing as the ramblings of a dementia patient. Then they blinked and said “Well, Greenland would have to…and I don’t think they would do that.”. They went from a hard no to “well, ackshually…”, which was more than enough for Trump to escalate this from some demented ramblings into people talking about making a serious play for Greenland even if they have to use force.
Never mind giving this man an inch and him taking a yard. Give this man a millimeter and he’s taking a light-year. Give this man even the slightest, most worthless token of a concession and all he will do is come back for more and more. These countries need to learn that you cannot play Trump’s games by Trump’s rules. They need to issue a hard “no”, and most importantly fucking stick with it.
Canada and Mexico have already given repeated concessions to Trump and look where it got them. Both of them need to start telling Trump to fuck all the way off and not give him even the most worthless token of a concession. All he’ll do is just renege on the deal anyway and come back asking for more the next time he needs to manufacture a crisis to distract the rubes from something.
You know how Kim Jong Un starts making all sorts of nuclear threats and ignoring treaties every time he needs aid or just wants attention, just so he can extract concessions and ignore the new treaty next time he wants attention? That’s what Trump is doing now.
This exactly. I’m in the us and I wish it weren’t the case, but if I was in another country I would suggest just treating America the way we do Cuba. Cuba should not have the restrictions it does, but we ostensibly are doing that because of the government, so if people need to treat America like a rogue state to get things to change, then they should. No trades at all. Gas is our main export, so that is less than ideal, since a lot of countries are trying to stay away from Russian gas, though some have returned, but honestly you can’t just make deals with fascists. Hitler was elected too. Just because someone is elected doesn’t mean it should be acceptable to make deals on their terms.
And North Korea doesn’t look great so I guess we’d have to quibble over what you mean by working. If you only mean working to stroke Trump’s ego, then sure. If you mean it as in getting anything meaningful then no I still have to say it’s not working.
It does “work” for North Korea, to a degree. Does it accomplish anything meaningful outside of stroking Kim’s ego? No. But it “works” in that Un is able to keep the cycle of issuing threats and making demands, getting concessions in the form of food aid or some token publicity stunt or whatever in exchange for halting nuclear activities, then reneging on those promises the next time they need food aid or want attention going.
What it accomplishes is a matter of debate. But it does “work” in the fact that it accomplishes the goal of giving “Dear Leader” an ego boost and having something to show to the rubes so he can brag about how big his dick is. And that’s all the incentive he needs to keep playing.
You know how a toddler learns that if he pulls a big enough temper tantrum, eventually mommy will give him the attention and the shiny toy he wants? Other countries need to learn the same lesson that mommy eventually learns: Ignore the toddler and let him thrash about in his playpen until he tires himself out and eventually he’ll learn that his behavior won’t get him what he wants. People still haven’t learned this, unfortunately, when it comes to Trump.
10k is a bit more than “some”, imo. But it still means that Mexico caved to demands, no? Why wouldn’t they do it before if all it took was a phone call?
Sidenote, I’m asking these questions because I truly don’t understand. I’m not trying to start anything here, except maybe some educational comments
Fair point on the troops.
In regards to why the wouldn’t do this before, they wouldn’t do it before because it won’t do shit to be frank. They have caved to the US via phone call, notably during Biden’s administration in order to lighten the number of migrants reaching the border.
Trump’s boots on the border crap looks good, but it won’t solve the why people are trying to get in. To do that would require undoing decades of CIA meddling in Latin America, and frankly money to help fix the systemic issues that caused. I’ll leave 6 quick links below on that history.
No amount of troops on the border will stop illegal immigration.
Only accessible legal pathways to immigration do that.
Please try testing your hypothesis at the Korean DMZ
The tarrifs don’t really matter. That’s not the point, it’s the distraction. Especially in this case. He wants to make it a common practice that foreign countries roll over for him. They think if a couple of our neighbors roll over, they can convince Denmark to roll over.
This is what a bully does. Threaten and threaten. It hides the inherent weakness because they don’t want to actually fight.