I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    13 days ago

    It seems you and I have different ideas of what enabling genocide looks like. Your opinion seems to be that her working for a ceasefire means she worked for peace. I find that argument weak partially because that was her just doing her job (unsuccessfully), and the ceasefire was only ever temporary and lacked justice (a prerequisite for peace). My opinion is that siding with the genociders counts as enabling genocide. She had the power to speak against Israel and show support for Palestine but did not use that power, she used her voice to say that Israel has the right to war. I also assume she had some power at the DNC and didn’t use it to let a Palestinian speak. Everything I know about what her positions were, based on what she said, her input to the public discourse, puts her firmly on the side of Israel, the genociders.

    You can disagree with my opinion, but I haven’t made any statements that are “unequivocally wrong”. The paragraph above is the first time I tried to represent anything but my own opinion, and I still don’t think I did a strawman with it.

    • @ChonkyOwlbear
      link
      12 days ago

      I find that argument weak partially because that was her just doing her job

      Her job is the only official power she had and she used it to stop the killing and get hostages released. That is directly trying to stop the genocide. Saying otherwise is counterfactual

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        12 days ago

        So you don’t think her voice had any power? If no, that brings into question why she was picked for the role at all. And it’s not “counterfactual” to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.

        • @ChonkyOwlbear
          link
          11 day ago

          So you don’t think her voice had any power?

          Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

          And it’s not “counterfactual” to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.

          Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            11 day ago

            Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

            Is that a good thing? Is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide? But when she’s running her own campaign seems an excellent time to distinguish herself from her predecessor. Especially when she got that spot because polling showed Biden couldn’t win. Even more when she’s specifically asked what she’d have done differently per my source from earlier.

            Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

            1. The war will not stop as long as both exist. The past 75 years of conflict have shown that. The goal as stated was only ever going to end with pauses.

            2. That’s still compromising with and defending the genociders. This evergreen meme

            Also this quote feels relevant

            • @ChonkyOwlbear
              link
              114 hours ago

              Is that a good thing?

              It just is. It’s an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.

              The war will not stop as long as both exist.

              So you’re in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.