I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

  • @ChonkyOwlbear
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    15 days ago

    I find that argument weak partially because that was her just doing her job

    Her job is the only official power she had and she used it to stop the killing and get hostages released. That is directly trying to stop the genocide. Saying otherwise is counterfactual

    • @[email protected]
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      15 days ago

      So you don’t think her voice had any power? If no, that brings into question why she was picked for the role at all. And it’s not “counterfactual” to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.

      • @ChonkyOwlbear
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        14 days ago

        So you don’t think her voice had any power?

        Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

        And it’s not “counterfactual” to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.

        Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

        • @[email protected]
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          13 days ago

          Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President’s foreign policy?

          Is that a good thing? Is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide? But when she’s running her own campaign seems an excellent time to distinguish herself from her predecessor. Especially when she got that spot because polling showed Biden couldn’t win. Even more when she’s specifically asked what she’d have done differently per my source from earlier.

          Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.

          1. The war will not stop as long as both exist. The past 75 years of conflict have shown that. The goal as stated was only ever going to end with pauses.

          2. That’s still compromising with and defending the genociders. This evergreen meme

          Also this quote feels relevant

          • @ChonkyOwlbear
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            13 days ago

            Is that a good thing?

            It just is. It’s an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.

            The war will not stop as long as both exist.

            So you’re in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.

            • @[email protected]
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              12 days ago

              It just is. It’s an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.

              To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?

              So you’re in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.

              I’m in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I’m opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

              • @ChonkyOwlbear
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                12 days ago

                To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?

                Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.

                I’m in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I’m opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

                How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn’t qualify as genocide?

                • @[email protected]
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                  12 days ago

                  Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.

                  I’m not skipping over the deals she was making. I’m just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict. As well as highlighting the context in which it was done.

                  How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn’t qualify as genocide?

                  the state is not the people it supposes to represent.

                  How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn’t qualify as genocide?

                  • @ChonkyOwlbear
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                    12 days ago

                    I’m just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict

                    Working for peace is the exact opposite of contributing to the conflict.

                    How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn’t qualify as genocide?

                    Killing 4.4 to 5.3 million Nazis was part of that achievement. It was not achieved peacefully. Thankfully “Nazi” isn’t an ethnicity, but Israeli Jews are and ethnic group.