I hope everyone who wants to be on permanent DST experiences an eternity of the first day of spring forward, never rested again
I hope everyone who wants to be on permanent DST experiences an eternity of the first day of spring forward, never rested again
Daylight Saving Time just needs to be completely eradicated, it makes no sense in the modern day. The problem is that you have this disagreement over “which” time should be the default, either standard time or daylight time (which Canada/the US spend more of the year in than not).
IMO it should just be standard time, emphasis on the word “standard”. If you want more daylight hours in the evening for events and such, just start things an hour earlier.
I’m sure everyone’s bosses will be accommodating
It’s so they can make more money more people die because of time changes, anyway.
Abolish bosses
It’s also dependent on where you live. Someone living on the easternmost part of a time zone is going to tend to want DST over standard as compared to someone living on the westernmost part. I live in the easternmost part of the Eastern US time zone and I’d pick DST if I had the choice.
East Coast, standard time please.
“East Coast” doesn’t provide enough information. If you look at a map of America and draw a straight line south from the western end of Massachusetts, it doesn’t really touch another state at all, just the ocean. What really needs to happen is that the Northeast needs to be in a different time zone, and then we stick to standard time. But as it is now, it really sucks being in EST in the winter in the northeast, which is why so many of us prefer permanent DST, when given the choice without the option of being in a different time zone.
4:30 sunrise in June just feels wrong to me.
You get used it it. Somehow the majority of the world where DST isn’t observed has no problem with an earlier sunrise. Makes it easier to be a “morning” person, if anything.
Morning people already get enough perks. Why do I want to help those judgemental pricks?
Because if you want to help them, you give them DST, so the sun can rise an hour into their day. DST literally delays the progress of morning and makes more of it, it makes you get up an hour earlier in the morning.
Arizona is used to it. When I drove through in July I swear the sun es already high at 4
Tbf, 5:00 sunset on standard time is not ideal for me either. But a lot more acceptable than having to suddenly adjust sleep because capitalists want to make more money.
The more I think about it, 8 am sunrise if we did permanent DST in late Dec/early January would be shit too. We should just split the difference, lol
I’m okay with that!
Permanent DST would be so stupid.
What is “noon” or “solar noon” under DST? Solar noon is supposed to be the time when the sun is at its peak. AM and PM come from ante meridiem and post meridiem, which are basically “before the sun’s peak” and “after the sun’s peak”. But, under DST the peak is at approx 1pm. So, will saying “I’ll meet you at noon” still mean 12pm? Probably, but then “solar noon” will be 1pm but “noon” will be 12am?
If the whole reason behind considering permanent DST that they think the 9-5 schedule of office life is impossible to change? This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
Nobody schedules things around solar noon you psycho.
That’s why we have been continuing to change clocks twice a year, because apparently that’s easier than changing the time children go to school.
If you’re only argument is “the sun should be directly up at noon” then we are going to need a lot more time zones.
Yeah, arguing definitions vs what’s actually practical is a new one for me in the DST discussion. Just goes to show you that people would rather appear right than do what’s useful.
I’m not only argument.
I also prefer solar noon, but standard time is close enough, and I already said I’m fine with splitting the difference.
Fun fact: in the mid '70s the US attempted to go to full year daylight savings time. It was so hated by everyone that we switched back to switching our clocks after very few years
Because a single news story about a single child being hit by a car on the walk to school was blown out of proportion and played on everyone’s fears. Kids don’t walk to school anymore.
What am I passing when I drive home every afternoon? Geese?
my wife and i only have one car because y’know poverty and i drive her to and from work once or twice a week because it’s nice. we’re going to start calling any pedestrian children Geese now because of you I love it.
You are passing what’s called “an anecdotal argument”.
OP didn’t back up their assertion with data. They don’t see kids; I do see kids. It’s all anecdotal.
Quick searching shows a CDC survey from 2017 estimating that a little over 15% of American kids walk to school. More recent data would require more time to find than I have right now, but even if it’s as low as 1 in 10 now, that’s still not nothing.
I’m interested to know what the percentage was throughout time.
Well if it is in the afternoon then you are seeing them walk home from school.
Go into detail about what the problems were and why everyone hated it.
People with school aged children were upset that their children were leaving for school in the dark.
People had more accidents in the morning (but accidents in the afternoon and evening hours decreased, especially pedestrian fatalities.
They didn’t even try it out for a prolonged period of time and a lot of that had to do with the Watergate scandal and the Nixon presidency.
Also the health benefits of switching to Standard time and doing away with DST would work with permanent DST too. The major health problems that are caused by the current model have to do with altering the bodies internal clock, and you get the benefits of not having to change regardless of whether we choose permant Standard time or permanent DST.
For reference purposes, car accidents spike significantly after DST ends, not just when it starts.
I think the main issue with their attempt in the 70’s is that they didn’t try to change the hours of school and work to make things more workable. We didn’t do that because it would have forced major industries to shift things and that seemed like too much work.
This would make things safer in general and fix sleep deprevation and other sleep related maladies in the vast majority of people who aren’t morning people.
And having more natural light during the waking hours decreases the amount of electricity used, can decrease heating and cooling bills, etc.
People complain about the idea (either moving permanent to standard time or morning permanently to DST) literally based on vibes. Nobody seems to give it a chance with actual changes to make it work for any length of time.
I’m also going to point out that a lot of the problem full stop is that Americans just do not have significant amounts of free time.
I wasn’t actually alive at the time, thanks for those details! I didn’t know why they hated it, just that they must have to have switched back so fast.
Yeah, I also wasn’t alive (I know most of it from my parents and the internet, but I’ve also had this conversation on the other place before.
I get the reasons why people like one or the other. I wake up at 3 am for work 5 days a week and I work 10 hour days so my feelings on the matter will be skewed no matter what, but it always seems like a majority of people want to go to standard DST when it’s a hypothetical and there’s not a good general consensus for why they switch back if it is tried.
I believe Mexico (might be another South American country), did have it and they swapped back due to the “health benefits” but it seems like a lot of the studies around day lights savings time as a whole are relying on supposition and don’t have a long term study for the actual effects.
Some studies show more car accidents, some show less, some show nuance. some studies show better or more economical use of utilities like water and rlectro, some show the opposite, or that there is no change.
Some studies show health benefits but those studies assume we don’t change sleeping schedules and so on to accommodate/ take advantage of more light, and often the health detriments are based on swapping back and forth twice a year.
Most of this comment I made after reading more articles on it rather than going off memory from the last time I had this conversation, and so what I say here may not necessarily match up with what’s in the original comment.
If I remember I’ll try to go back up and change that comment to better reflect the new info.
People have serious health effects because of DST, too
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time
You should read more into this. The detrimental health effects aren’t linked to going permantly to DST, but from switching back and forth between DST and standard time.
It seems to be worse to spring forward, is the point. It doesn’t align with the most prevalent circadian rhythm in humans, although there are exceptions. I guess those people are just sol regardless, which is regrettable.
Non-starter, according to DST sickos they need that extra hour of daylight to be at a higher number on the clock because of all the stuff they do. As if they weren’t sitting on their asses on the couch 99% of the time either way.
I don’t need the sun to come up at 4:30 in the morning during the summer, and I am a pretty skilled runner. I’m just not a morning person.
People rarely have their bleary eyed shit together before 9am anyway, best save the sun time for off hours.
Hospital and factory workers first shift usually starts at 6:00-7:00.
To work indoors.
Then don’t be. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s completely arbitrary when you get up.
I wish I got to set the schedule to everything in my life
You could just make the numbers be whatever you want if that’s what you need to feel good about the time.
Again, I don’t get to set my own schedule, they’re determined by these numbers that while arbitrary, are rigid. Drop a kid off an hour late to school every day and have fun explaining that to a truancy officer, or tell your boss you’re leaving work an hour early to catch some sunlight and see how that goes.
So drop them off at the same time, but just call it 8 instead of 7. Or is it more important to force everyone else to be on the same arbitrary number as you?
Seems very important to you that the arbitrary number go the other way instead. Same argument applies.
I don’t give a fuck which way it goes, just pick one and stick with it.
It’s not about the arbitrary number, it’s about where the sun is when that number not dictated by me rolls around.
They could just say school and business hour is at 8 instead of 9 from an arbitrary date and have the same effect.
Nah, it’s about outside time. Not being in my garden, on my porch, or just outside in general because it’s dark at 5pm is depressing.
Then get up an hour earlier. I personally can’t relate to feeling depressed because it’s dark out, like a bird having a blanket put over its cage, but I do enjoy the longer, cooler evenings with less UV.
No. Mornings feel like being on the wrong side of the sun.
Just change your circadian rhythms to match morning people’s. Also do cocaine
I’d love an alarm clock that only wakes you once the sun has crossed the meridian, like how navies used to only change the calendar day once they’d turned the glass and struck the bell at high noon.
I don’t know, last time I had a barbecue at 5am no one showed up.