Clinton was right about everything. In 20 years its going to be really hard to explain why she wasn’t the obvious choice who should have won by a landslide
Me neither. Our caucus center was powerfully pro Hillary and made the Bernie folk line up in the hallway as opposed to the gym where everyone else was so O’Malley would catch any votes that didn’t go to Hillary. My state at the time (Iowa) went to Hillary by a razor thin margin
Hillary was obviously the better choice given the 2, but DNC shafted Bernie on record, which caused a lot of people to go 3rd party, against both RNC and DNC.
And this just shows how easy it is to manipulate Democrats as well as Republicans. Realistically the DNC did not give him the shaft. But that is forever the only narrative you will ever retain.
It’s not. Your article actually points to the exact same things I’ve been saying. Debbie Wasserman Schultz despite being the chair of the DNC is not the whole dnc. Even culty gabbard who was a member of the DNC at that time called her out and is probably the one that helped leak the emails. Wasserman Schultz is a horrible piece of s*** for her actions but she’s not the entire DNC. Because even they were calling her out.
Voting for Bernie doesn’t make you not able to be a Hilary apologist. She ran a shit campaign and she lost. I voted for her, doesn’t make me blind to the reality.
Actually it does. Because I never apologize for Hillary. That was just a straw man. A baseless accusation that you made. Because you don’t have anything to actually rebut what I said. I absolutely blame Debbie Wasserman Schultz. And believe that Clinton constantly made optically bad moves throughout the campaign. Especially letting her join after what she did.
Sanders was never really running to actually be president. He was running as a change candidate. To push Democrats towards the center. Which he succeeded at spectacularly. It’s the reason he’s still in the party. He just did much better than he ever thought he would do. If you actually knew anything about him. You’d understand all this. Or at least be curious to understand why he’s stayed with the party even after they supposedly did him so wrong. Did you ever wonder while being so outraged for him why he wasn’t equally outraged as you? No you never asked yourself that question did you.
I’m definitely not a fan of the DNC overall. I think they choose not to fight when they should. Don’t spend time supporting or bringing up good new candidates through the ranks. And also supporting poor candidates out of institutional momentum. But realistically outside of Wasserman Schultz actions which are on her. The DNC didn’t really do anything unexpected, surprising, or out of the ordinary. As a party they’re allowed to have favorites. And if you don’t like that well then we should push to change the DNC and their rules. But Bernie knew what he was going into. Maybe you should take a cue from him.
Trump was relatable and likable to his supporters. Clinton couldn’t say the same except for a small number of them. It’s become tradition in the Democratic Party to hold your nose when you vote for president.
But that is relatable to his supporters, he’s living their dreams. If they were rich, they’d want you have sex with porn stars and live in a gold penthouse.
Some of us remember the 90’s, and the ubiquitous bumper stickers implying that while Bill was President, Hillary was in charge. Playing on sexist tropes, calling her a bitch of the canine variety, “I didn’t vote for Hillary,” “She’s not my president,” etc… Hillary was well hated before she ever ran for President.
I remember all this, and I fell for it. Due to years of propaganda against her, I just had this mild feeling of revulsion to Hillary. I primaried for Bernie in a district that’s very close in demographics to the national average, and was stunned that Hillary had about a 4x as many supporters. But once she became the official Dem candidate, I started watching her campaign events, debates and researched her political history. Hillary was a fantastic candidate and after watching her in action I fully understood WHY there had been decades of propaganda from the right against her - she was incredibly dangerous to them - not only because of her likelihood to win, but even moreso due to how effective she would be as president.
My impression of her in 2016 was that she’d be a neoliberal centrist that would make similar missteps to Bill Clinton, and I wanted nothing of it. Bill was lauded for bargaining with the GOP controlled Congress, but people like me had to help fight against the effects of his deals with the devil. There were a LOT of POC grandmas in public housing getting booted out because the housing project’s super alleged that their grandkids were dealing drugs - the changes to HUD regulations allowed grandma to be at fault for failing to control their grandkids. And there was a not-insubstantial number of project supers that would just make shit up because they ruled over the projects like it was their private fiefdom. I worked in Legal Aid at the time.
Also, Hillary’s charisma was lacking. Not that charisma is all-important, but she just seemed fake as fuck. I wanted Warren because of her focus on consumer protection and debtor friendly bankruptcy reform.
People were more concerned with a Democrat being likeable, after decades of character assassination, while they didn’t care that the republican was a criminal, and also foreign interference and an FBI that was paralyzed by biased agents and management fear of appearing biased, actual outcomes be damned.
It was a perfect storm of regressive misinformation and every individual with the ability to stop the train wreck trying to cover their own asses and pass the buck instead.
I just want to also call out the Internet Research Agency, Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear: All Russian information groups, a disrupted our elections in one way or another through different types of social engineering, hacking, trolling and misinformation creation. They went after individualls, businesses, and government organizations, not limited to the DNC.
I’m sure that will be something people in 20years understand. She didn’t campaign well enough so we elected a narcissistic sociopath who bragged about grabbing women by the genitals and then fucked our country into fascism.
Everything is a bit of a stretch. She was certainly wrong about how she ran her campaign. Poisoning the well in the primary worked out so fucking well for her. It was her turn, she earned it. No reason to convince the voters to show up by campaigning, or creating a platform people were excited about. Just say how bad Bernie is, then how bad trump is a few times and hide.
My point is that she didn’t poison the well so much as she crushed Bernie in the Primary.
She also won the general by 3 million votes but I was specifically talking about how bad she beat Sanders.
I find it very strange you can dislike how she can win the general by 3 million votes and lose due to the EC, but also you think it’s fucked up she got the nom while also winning the primary by 3 million votes.
Let me just rehash every statement she made disparaging Bernie and Trump supporters. Oh wait, there’s no point in arguing with any of you DNC knob gobblers. So, I won’t.
Trump supporters are human garbage and her being right about it is what the article youre commenting under is literally about.
If you don’t think Sanders supporters treated Hillary, her supporters, and the Democrat party like shit… All I can say is give this thread a skim. They’re still doing it.
Yeah, the DNC clearing the field for her looks really bad in hindsight. A lot would be different if Biden had run in 2016 when the whole Bidenbro phenomenon was really popular.
Agreed. Biden running would of in itself made me feel 100x better about the primary process. She was clearly anointed by the DNC before the primary even started. They couldn’t even at least pretend we had a choice…
Right, but in the end she was going to get the votes anyway. Bernie couldn’t perform as well in the South which is a major voting block. Bernie did a great job of attracting young and white male voters. He didn’t pull the number of black voters and white women to overcome Clinton’s lead.
Bernie couldn’t perform as well in the South which is a major voting block.
Major voting bloc in what, the primaries? Why is that even relevant? Democrats don’t win in the South. That sucks if you’re a Dem voter in the South but basing who the candidate is going to be in a national election on winning some primaries in states that won’t go blue in that election is pointless. The South is a lost cause. There’s no reason to care what they think about the Democratic nominee.
Clinton was right about everything. In 20 years its going to be really hard to explain why she wasn’t the obvious choice who should have won by a landslide
No it isn’t. She wasn’t relatable or likeable at all. People wanted an outsider and HRC is about as much of an insider as you could be.
Where are the Bernie bros that dude would have won.
We’re depressed. Leave us out of this
I will never forgive the DNC
Me neither. Our caucus center was powerfully pro Hillary and made the Bernie folk line up in the hallway as opposed to the gym where everyone else was so O’Malley would catch any votes that didn’t go to Hillary. My state at the time (Iowa) went to Hillary by a razor thin margin
Then do you actually believe in your politics?
Neither is Trump. Hillary was obviously the better choice.
Hillary was obviously the better choice given the 2, but DNC shafted Bernie on record, which caused a lot of people to go 3rd party, against both RNC and DNC.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz
As a dem. Vote in Sofla this made me chuckle.
And this just shows how easy it is to manipulate Democrats as well as Republicans. Realistically the DNC did not give him the shaft. But that is forever the only narrative you will ever retain.
This is revisionist history:
https://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/bernie-sanders-calls-wasserman-schultz-resign-wake-dnc/story?id=40824983
It’s not. Your article actually points to the exact same things I’ve been saying. Debbie Wasserman Schultz despite being the chair of the DNC is not the whole dnc. Even culty gabbard who was a member of the DNC at that time called her out and is probably the one that helped leak the emails. Wasserman Schultz is a horrible piece of s*** for her actions but she’s not the entire DNC. Because even they were calling her out.
Oh look the Hilary apologist here to tell us it’s everyonea fault but the terrible candidate who lost.
LOL I voted for Bernie in the last two primaries. Thank you for proving my point. Programmed and wound so tight you can’t even help yourself.
Voting for Bernie doesn’t make you not able to be a Hilary apologist. She ran a shit campaign and she lost. I voted for her, doesn’t make me blind to the reality.
Actually it does. Because I never apologize for Hillary. That was just a straw man. A baseless accusation that you made. Because you don’t have anything to actually rebut what I said. I absolutely blame Debbie Wasserman Schultz. And believe that Clinton constantly made optically bad moves throughout the campaign. Especially letting her join after what she did.
Sanders was never really running to actually be president. He was running as a change candidate. To push Democrats towards the center. Which he succeeded at spectacularly. It’s the reason he’s still in the party. He just did much better than he ever thought he would do. If you actually knew anything about him. You’d understand all this. Or at least be curious to understand why he’s stayed with the party even after they supposedly did him so wrong. Did you ever wonder while being so outraged for him why he wasn’t equally outraged as you? No you never asked yourself that question did you.
I’m definitely not a fan of the DNC overall. I think they choose not to fight when they should. Don’t spend time supporting or bringing up good new candidates through the ranks. And also supporting poor candidates out of institutional momentum. But realistically outside of Wasserman Schultz actions which are on her. The DNC didn’t really do anything unexpected, surprising, or out of the ordinary. As a party they’re allowed to have favorites. And if you don’t like that well then we should push to change the DNC and their rules. But Bernie knew what he was going into. Maybe you should take a cue from him.
Trump was relatable and likable to his supporters. Clinton couldn’t say the same except for a small number of them. It’s become tradition in the Democratic Party to hold your nose when you vote for president.
As an example of her lack of relatability and likeability, here she is chilling in Cedar Rapids and telling kids to Pokemon Go to the polls.
As an example of Trump’s relatability, here’s where he lives
But that is relatable to his supporters, he’s living their dreams. If they were rich, they’d want you have sex with porn stars and live in a gold penthouse.
Considering his supporters think they’re all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, that is relatable to them.
Bro people marched on the capitol for trump wtf are you talking about.
He’s not likeable to anyone with a real brain
Sure but thats not what we’re talking about
Trump is about as likeable as a rabid dingo. Clinton was better in absolutely every way to people with two neurons to rub together.
It doesn’t take much to be better than Trump. Still, Clinton campaigned as if winning was a foregone conclusion and then she found out that it wasn’t.
Some of us remember the 90’s, and the ubiquitous bumper stickers implying that while Bill was President, Hillary was in charge. Playing on sexist tropes, calling her a bitch of the canine variety, “I didn’t vote for Hillary,” “She’s not my president,” etc… Hillary was well hated before she ever ran for President.
I remember all this, and I fell for it. Due to years of propaganda against her, I just had this mild feeling of revulsion to Hillary. I primaried for Bernie in a district that’s very close in demographics to the national average, and was stunned that Hillary had about a 4x as many supporters. But once she became the official Dem candidate, I started watching her campaign events, debates and researched her political history. Hillary was a fantastic candidate and after watching her in action I fully understood WHY there had been decades of propaganda from the right against her - she was incredibly dangerous to them - not only because of her likelihood to win, but even moreso due to how effective she would be as president.
My impression of her in 2016 was that she’d be a neoliberal centrist that would make similar missteps to Bill Clinton, and I wanted nothing of it. Bill was lauded for bargaining with the GOP controlled Congress, but people like me had to help fight against the effects of his deals with the devil. There were a LOT of POC grandmas in public housing getting booted out because the housing project’s super alleged that their grandkids were dealing drugs - the changes to HUD regulations allowed grandma to be at fault for failing to control their grandkids. And there was a not-insubstantial number of project supers that would just make shit up because they ruled over the projects like it was their private fiefdom. I worked in Legal Aid at the time.
Also, Hillary’s charisma was lacking. Not that charisma is all-important, but she just seemed fake as fuck. I wanted Warren because of her focus on consumer protection and debtor friendly bankruptcy reform.
People who want outsiders are, it turns out, dumb and wrong
It’s actually an easy explanation.
People were more concerned with a Democrat being likeable, after decades of character assassination, while they didn’t care that the republican was a criminal, and also foreign interference and an FBI that was paralyzed by biased agents and management fear of appearing biased, actual outcomes be damned.
It was a perfect storm of regressive misinformation and every individual with the ability to stop the train wreck trying to cover their own asses and pass the buck instead.
wasn’t this also the election that was heavily influenced by Cambridge Analytica? while Facebook being the biggest social media site in thebworld/us?
I just want to also call out the Internet Research Agency, Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear: All Russian information groups, a disrupted our elections in one way or another through different types of social engineering, hacking, trolling and misinformation creation. They went after individualls, businesses, and government organizations, not limited to the DNC.
She didn’t even campaign in Michigan thinking it was a sure thing. She ran a terrible campaign.
I’m sure that will be something people in 20years understand. She didn’t campaign well enough so we elected a narcissistic sociopath who bragged about grabbing women by the genitals and then fucked our country into fascism.
But her emails…
Everything is a bit of a stretch. She was certainly wrong about how she ran her campaign. Poisoning the well in the primary worked out so fucking well for her. It was her turn, she earned it. No reason to convince the voters to show up by campaigning, or creating a platform people were excited about. Just say how bad Bernie is, then how bad trump is a few times and hide.
“Poisoning the well” aka “winning by 3 million votes”
I don’t like how the system works either, but that doesn’t change it or invalidate her loss.
My point is that she didn’t poison the well so much as she crushed Bernie in the Primary.
She also won the general by 3 million votes but I was specifically talking about how bad she beat Sanders.
I find it very strange you can dislike how she can win the general by 3 million votes and lose due to the EC, but also you think it’s fucked up she got the nom while also winning the primary by 3 million votes.
Let me just rehash every statement she made disparaging Bernie and Trump supporters. Oh wait, there’s no point in arguing with any of you DNC knob gobblers. So, I won’t.
Trump supporters are human garbage and her being right about it is what the article youre commenting under is literally about.
If you don’t think Sanders supporters treated Hillary, her supporters, and the Democrat party like shit… All I can say is give this thread a skim. They’re still doing it.
You’re doing it right now.
Yeah, the DNC clearing the field for her looks really bad in hindsight. A lot would be different if Biden had run in 2016 when the whole Bidenbro phenomenon was really popular.
Agreed. Biden running would of in itself made me feel 100x better about the primary process. She was clearly anointed by the DNC before the primary even started. They couldn’t even at least pretend we had a choice…
Right, but in the end she was going to get the votes anyway. Bernie couldn’t perform as well in the South which is a major voting block. Bernie did a great job of attracting young and white male voters. He didn’t pull the number of black voters and white women to overcome Clinton’s lead.
I say this as a Warren voter.
Major voting bloc in what, the primaries? Why is that even relevant? Democrats don’t win in the South. That sucks if you’re a Dem voter in the South but basing who the candidate is going to be in a national election on winning some primaries in states that won’t go blue in that election is pointless. The South is a lost cause. There’s no reason to care what they think about the Democratic nominee.