Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

  • @dragontamer
    6•1 year ago

    So I think that by-and-large, the Evangelicals have had a crisis of faith and are seeking the US Catholic Church as a bastion of stability. And the US Catholic Church has been happy to accept Evangelicals into our flock, because we’re all Christian here and spreading our religion is what we do.

    This has become somewhat of a devil’s deal however, as the Evangelicals have pushed the Church extremely rightward politically. Historically, the Catholic Church has been very pro-Latino, because the Hispanic community / immigrants are overwhelmingly Catholic (not just “Christian”, but proper Catholics born and raised). But in the past 10 years or so I’m seeing more and more former-Evangelicals bring their politics into the Catholic tradition.

    Nominally, this crap shouldn’t matter to the issues of Church. But it does. Politics infects all wakes of life one way or the other.

    In any case, I think its a good thing that (former) Evangelicals have migrated over to the Catholic church in such large numbers that this problem is occurring. And I’m not necessarily saying that we need to ‘indoctrinate’ our (former) Evangelicals to the policies or politics of the Catholics… but… maybe a little bit? I dunno. But a lot of these far-right rhetoric / fire and brimstone style religion (with anti-immigration / anti-Hispanic slants) is distinctly non-Catholic and heretical IMO.

    Case in point: we Catholics finally have a 2nd president of our Faith: Joe Biden. And yet, the Catholic community was THIS close to excommunicating him. Rather than celebrate our achievement to get our 2nd president into the office, he is seen as a heretic to (half) of the US Catholic Community.

    • @dhork
      10•1 year ago

      It’s not like evangelicals are all coming to Mass now: the priest wouldn’t give them communion anyway. Rather, what you describe is a political partnership, based on opposition to abortion, where the Evangelicals and Catholics started raising an assload of money together.

      And this is what this is all about, money and political power and clout. And I think that’s what the Pope is objecting to. Catholic doctrine is clear that life begins at conception, and is worthy of protection. But there is so much more to protecting life, at all its stages: education, help for the poor and hungry, assistance for the immigrant, compassion for prisoners (and opposition to the Death Penalty). US Bishops are sacrificing the rest of it at the altar of political power.

      The ironic thing is that Protestants outnumber Catholics here. If the US Bishops get the theocracy they are aiming for, it is pretty much guaranteed that these Protestant Evangelicals will be running it. And Catholics will end up marginalized again.

      • @dragontamer
        1•1 year ago

        No no no.

        I mean I’ve noticed an uptick in Evangelicals properly converting into Catholicism recently. And simultaneously, a sudden surge in people wanting “Latin Mass” and other such very old traditions. Definitely a yearning for “traditional” Religion, and (former) Evangelicals seeking Catholicism because of it.

        This is absolutely a “Church” issue because it relates to the religious+political views of our relatively fresh converts (well, within the past couple of decades).

        • @givesomefucks
          5•1 year ago

          And simultaneously, a sudden surge in people wanting “Latin Mass” and other such very old traditions.

          That’s an AstroTurf movement by conservative priests who want to be able to read the bible, no one understands what they said, then they go on a personal rant and telling them what to think and how to vote…

          Mostly because they’re upset the Pope is (relatively) progressive for a pope

        • @dhork
          2•1 year ago

          Well, I’ll have to look into this a bit more. I’m quite aware of the Traditionalists, but didn’t realize they were pulling Evangelicals in, somehow.

          • @dragontamer
            1•1 year ago

            It could just be biases in my social group. But I feel like the Traditionalists are doing big with the Evangelical crowd and doing a good job converting them to Catholicism. For better or for worse.

            With regards to Church Politics: this means that Traditionalists are the ones bringing in the new RCIA year-after-year. Meanwhile, the liberal wing tends to lose out to Atheists. You gotta think in terms of Church politics, evangelicalism and such to see why this is a problem. It means that Traditionalists are very much slated to gain tons of (within-the-church) power, given the current situation.

            I definitely think this is bad for the Church overall, though I’m unsure what to make of it or what to do about it.

    • JoYo
      2•1 year ago

      Catholic concerts are the most evil people I’ve ever met.

      edit: I meant converts but those suck too.