Wanted to add a few arguments I saw about eggs, first that we selectively bred chickens to produce eggs at an extremely high rate (unsure what this does to their well-being, but apparently the laying itself is painless). Second, the chicken’s eggs could be seen as the “work” they do in exchange for keeping them healthy and happy.
The eggshell requires calcium. At the rates at which modern egg laying hens ovulate, their bones become far more fragile to siphon it. That is to say that their ability to self sustain and survive for the total lifespan of a chicken is greatly reduced.
Supplements and well managed diets do help, but of the available data, it looks like 12-35% are still deficient depending on area of the world. I checked for studies in USA and Europe. And of course, once that’s determined for particular chicken who end up producing thin shell eggs - they get killed.
And ultimately, they’ve been bred to rely on said diet and supplementing. Vegans are against breeding as it is, let alone breeding them to be dependent.
Almost all domestic animals are dependant, thats how mutualistic symbiotic partnerships work. Humans are only recently arguably capable of abandoning that dependance, none of our symbiotic partners can match that. Im really creeped out by what youre implying here, we shouldnt kill off our evolutionary partners just because we dont need them any longer.
And… “Bred to rely on said diet” is a crazy thing to say, no? All animals rely on their diet. Some breeds of chicken have a higher calcium intake requirement, but so do some breeds of human. Not an excuse nor reason to drive either extinct.
Homie the problem with breeding them like this is selecting them to ovulate 300 times a year so we can steal their excretions.
Symbiotic relationships don’t involve human breeding intervention. Least of all when it’s for selecting traits that come to the animal’s detriment. I’m not opposed to rescuing animals or providing accomodations for animals facing extinction so as to safetly raise young with minimimal human interaction.
You know what else isn’t a partnership? Slitting their throats. Which happens to these chickens. Thats creepy. Assuming you aren’t Vegan, which I don’t think you identify as much, idk why you care if they go extinct - because you want to keep eating them? I just don’t see good faith framing in your interpretation of what I said at all.
You in the wrong sub my dude. No one asked them to unbirth themselves. More bad faith shit. They slit their throats. Really fucked up that you are okay with that. Weird priorities youve got in the Vegan subreddit. Dumby dumb dumb I am telling you that forcibly breeding them is immoral. Anyway bye carnist.
When they are kept happy and healthy I personally don’t disagree yeah, but frankly how many of us here actually get our eggs from sources like that?
If I were ever to go Vegan, I probably wouldn’t mind eating eggs laid up in environments like that, but I also don’t blame vegans who’d rather just simplify things by cutting it out entirely than having to morally evaluate every egg they eat
Wanted to add a few arguments I saw about eggs, first that we selectively bred chickens to produce eggs at an extremely high rate (unsure what this does to their well-being, but apparently the laying itself is painless). Second, the chicken’s eggs could be seen as the “work” they do in exchange for keeping them healthy and happy.
The eggshell requires calcium. At the rates at which modern egg laying hens ovulate, their bones become far more fragile to siphon it. That is to say that their ability to self sustain and survive for the total lifespan of a chicken is greatly reduced.
Thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense.
Thats only if you arent feeding them a regular source of calcium.
Which would happen to literally any animal not properly fed.
Supplements and well managed diets do help, but of the available data, it looks like 12-35% are still deficient depending on area of the world. I checked for studies in USA and Europe. And of course, once that’s determined for particular chicken who end up producing thin shell eggs - they get killed.
And ultimately, they’ve been bred to rely on said diet and supplementing. Vegans are against breeding as it is, let alone breeding them to be dependent.
Almost all domestic animals are dependant, thats how mutualistic symbiotic partnerships work. Humans are only recently arguably capable of abandoning that dependance, none of our symbiotic partners can match that. Im really creeped out by what youre implying here, we shouldnt kill off our evolutionary partners just because we dont need them any longer.
And… “Bred to rely on said diet” is a crazy thing to say, no? All animals rely on their diet. Some breeds of chicken have a higher calcium intake requirement, but so do some breeds of human. Not an excuse nor reason to drive either extinct.
Homie the problem with breeding them like this is selecting them to ovulate 300 times a year so we can steal their excretions.
Symbiotic relationships don’t involve human breeding intervention. Least of all when it’s for selecting traits that come to the animal’s detriment. I’m not opposed to rescuing animals or providing accomodations for animals facing extinction so as to safetly raise young with minimimal human interaction.
You know what else isn’t a partnership? Slitting their throats. Which happens to these chickens. Thats creepy. Assuming you aren’t Vegan, which I don’t think you identify as much, idk why you care if they go extinct - because you want to keep eating them? I just don’t see good faith framing in your interpretation of what I said at all.
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You in the wrong sub my dude. No one asked them to unbirth themselves. More bad faith shit. They slit their throats. Really fucked up that you are okay with that. Weird priorities youve got in the Vegan subreddit. Dumby dumb dumb I am telling you that forcibly breeding them is immoral. Anyway bye carnist.
This is such an unhinged response
When they are kept happy and healthy I personally don’t disagree yeah, but frankly how many of us here actually get our eggs from sources like that?
If I were ever to go Vegan, I probably wouldn’t mind eating eggs laid up in environments like that, but I also don’t blame vegans who’d rather just simplify things by cutting it out entirely than having to morally evaluate every egg they eat