i never understood this take. echo chambers aren’t inherently bad; forced debates are never good. communities are supposed to be places you go to feel comfortable not where you’d forced to debate or turn anything into an argument.
Exposure to other viewpoints is good. No need to debate. And if you’re on a large instance, you’ll see that. Not everyone thinks alike, there are shades of gray. Discussion is allowed to happen but intolerance isn’t tolerated.
The tankie instances ban anyone for even asking questions politely that they don’t agree with. It’s a total monoculture and I assume they’re mostly still kids, because everything is black and white and can be solved without any nuance at all.
Exposure to other viewpoints is good yes, but is it good when that exposure only ever gets you insults hurled your way from the people you’re trying to have a discussion with?
Is exposure to other viewpoints good when those viewpoints are half-baked straw man hot-takes that the users are just parroting because they heard their favorite YouTuber say it?
I don’t need to be exposed to yet another dipshit who insists the holodomor never happened. That’s not me avoiding other viewpoints, that’s me avoiding fucking morons.
This is very close to the Nazi point of “just asking questions” or when they say it’s just free speech. Not saying you’re arguing it, but it is a very thin line.
What’s the line then? Why do people ban Nazis and not tankies? Tankies are authoritarian, they defend the massacre of Ukrainians, the Uyghur genocide, and other historic “socialist” atrocities. Why do we give them leeway? Are they skirting the line just enough? Are they intentionally using the optics of socialism to do so? Etc.
Keep in mind, just because someone blocks someone or an instance it doesn’t necessarily make the space an echo chamber. We don’t know if they live in a state or work in a place that is blasting Fox News 24/7. They may be very active on Twitter exposed to that sewage. Heck, the liberal point of view is quite a lot as is with the way they are defending Israel.
I think I’m arguing the exact opposite. We should ban/defederate nazis and tankies. But we shouldn’t ban people with different views that aren’t beyond the pale.
You can have a nuanced opinion of Israel/Palestine without being labeled as a genocide denier since it’s still in the fog of war.
It’s much harder to have a nuanced opinion about Rohingya, the Holocaust, Uyghur, Darfur.
I assume they’re mostly still kids, because everything is black and white and can be solved without any nuance at all.
This is SO important. Remember that the “Dirtbag Left” a la Chapo et al. was created when the Alt Right was running rampant in high schools. Their goal was to attract young people to the left. Which is great! There’s a place for cringe edgy teens to feel like they can fight for a better world. But I’m really not looking to hang out with arrogant teenagers right now, and definitely not with their emotionally immature adult chaperones.
Even if the other viewpoint is that trans people should get shot or locked up and are members of a secret child sex ring?
I don’t think I want that on my feed.
I don’t want people that want to kill me on my screen while I shit
90% of the time it’s bigots who are upset that they’re getting deplatformed. The other 10% of the time it’s the incredibly idealistic or naive. Either way it’s a crap argument. You are under no obligation to endure verbal diarrhea, nor is it your responsibility to change the minds of the people spewing it. They shit the bed, they can lie in it.
Normal interactions with normal communities will be plenty of diversity, there’s absolutely no reason to engage with or listen to nazis. Right wing politics has mastered brainwashing, it’s dangerous to read that shit too often.
They’ve mastered brainwashing to conservative religious nutjobs and incels. Maybe young and naive teenage boys, on top of that. If you aren’t an idiot or a teen, you should be immune for the most part.
Not that I’m saying you should go out of your way to interact with Nazis. Unless the interaction involves punching.
i never understood this take. echo chambers aren’t inherently bad; forced debates are never good. communities are supposed to be places you go to feel comfortable not where you’d forced to debate or turn anything into an argument.
Exposure to other viewpoints is good. No need to debate. And if you’re on a large instance, you’ll see that. Not everyone thinks alike, there are shades of gray. Discussion is allowed to happen but intolerance isn’t tolerated.
The tankie instances ban anyone for even asking questions politely that they don’t agree with. It’s a total monoculture and I assume they’re mostly still kids, because everything is black and white and can be solved without any nuance at all.
Exposure to other viewpoints is good yes, but is it good when that exposure only ever gets you insults hurled your way from the people you’re trying to have a discussion with?
exactly. everywhere irl all i see is people debating my existence. i just want one place where i don’t have to think about that. x.x
Nope, definitely not - which is why I’m not a free speech absolutist. Let those instances sit on an island by themselves.
Is exposure to other viewpoints good when those viewpoints are half-baked straw man hot-takes that the users are just parroting because they heard their favorite YouTuber say it?
I don’t need to be exposed to yet another dipshit who insists the holodomor never happened. That’s not me avoiding other viewpoints, that’s me avoiding fucking morons.
This is very close to the Nazi point of “just asking questions” or when they say it’s just free speech. Not saying you’re arguing it, but it is a very thin line.
What’s the line then? Why do people ban Nazis and not tankies? Tankies are authoritarian, they defend the massacre of Ukrainians, the Uyghur genocide, and other historic “socialist” atrocities. Why do we give them leeway? Are they skirting the line just enough? Are they intentionally using the optics of socialism to do so? Etc.
Keep in mind, just because someone blocks someone or an instance it doesn’t necessarily make the space an echo chamber. We don’t know if they live in a state or work in a place that is blasting Fox News 24/7. They may be very active on Twitter exposed to that sewage. Heck, the liberal point of view is quite a lot as is with the way they are defending Israel.
I think I’m arguing the exact opposite. We should ban/defederate nazis and tankies. But we shouldn’t ban people with different views that aren’t beyond the pale.
You can have a nuanced opinion of Israel/Palestine without being labeled as a genocide denier since it’s still in the fog of war.
It’s much harder to have a nuanced opinion about Rohingya, the Holocaust, Uyghur, Darfur.
I like your response. I don’t have much else to add.
This is SO important. Remember that the “Dirtbag Left” a la Chapo et al. was created when the Alt Right was running rampant in high schools. Their goal was to attract young people to the left. Which is great! There’s a place for cringe edgy teens to feel like they can fight for a better world. But I’m really not looking to hang out with arrogant teenagers right now, and definitely not with their emotionally immature adult chaperones.
The fact that they are mostly kids is a big part of the reason why I feel the need to add context to their bad political science.
Even if the other viewpoint is that trans people should get shot or locked up and are members of a secret child sex ring? I don’t think I want that on my feed. I don’t want people that want to kill me on my screen while I shit
Nope, not at all. All that falls into the intolerant and intolerable category.
Defending capitalism or Israel - or even suggesting that both sides might have agendas - will get you banned in quite a lot of subs here.
Nope, not at all. All that falls into the intolerant and intolerable category.
Defending capitalism or Israel - or even suggesting that both sides might have agendas - will get you banned in quite a lot of subs here.
Okay, but this is more about blocking instances that are very extreme. Those can most of the time not be discussed with
90% of the time it’s bigots who are upset that they’re getting deplatformed. The other 10% of the time it’s the incredibly idealistic or naive. Either way it’s a crap argument. You are under no obligation to endure verbal diarrhea, nor is it your responsibility to change the minds of the people spewing it. They shit the bed, they can lie in it.
Normal interactions with normal communities will be plenty of diversity, there’s absolutely no reason to engage with or listen to nazis. Right wing politics has mastered brainwashing, it’s dangerous to read that shit too often.
They’ve mastered brainwashing to conservative religious nutjobs and incels. Maybe young and naive teenage boys, on top of that. If you aren’t an idiot or a teen, you should be immune for the most part.
Not that I’m saying you should go out of your way to interact with Nazis. Unless the interaction involves punching.
Yes but the problem is between idiots and teens you’ve covered about 70% of the population.