1. Meta/Facebook has a horrific track record on human rights:
- https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ethiopia-facebook-algorithms-contributed-human-rights-abuses-against-tigrayans
- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence
- https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17587080/mark-zuckerberg-holocaust-denial-kara-swisher-interview
2. Meta/Facebook is trying to join the Fediverse. We need to defederate them.
3. If you're a server admin, please defederate Meta's domain "threads.net" (here's how on Mastodon https://fedi.tips/how-to-defederate-fediblock-a-server-on-mastodon/)
4. If you don't run your own server, please ask your server admin to defederate "threads.net". Your admin is listed on your server website's About page.
Meta just announced that they are trying to integrate Threads with ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, etc.). We need to defederate them if we want to avoid them pushing their crap into fediverse.
If you’re a server admin, please defederate Meta’s domain “threads.net”
If you don’t run your own server, please ask your server admin to defederate “threads.net”.
Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don’t like them!
This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone’s keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.
How are we supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
“We need to defederate from them” is not a petition…
Also, you could just choose not to subscribe to them, go to a place where they are defederated, or even just block them yourself with the right apps.
That’s a whole lot of choice for you in a platform based around decentralization and user choice.
But on the flip side if you just make everyone defederate them, then you’re removing user choice completely just based on your personal feelings on the matter.
That doesn’t seem fair to me just because you personally hate something that I don’t.
Then feel free to go to threads or somewhere that does federate with them. You don’t have to stay on a particular instance if they don’t federate with something you want to engage with.
Makes sense, Kbin is one of the most lax instances when it comes to moderation and defederation, and that’s why they’re considered so bad when it comes to spam and illegal content.
I like the freedom of kbin but also maintain an account on Beehaw because they are the complete opposite with frustratingly strict moderation to the point of moderators telling people to check their naughty language at the door (which is totally understandable).
Meta are largely responsible for the current state of affairs right now. Nearly every current war, genocide, fake news, and more can be tied back to Meta.
Are you seriously simplifying all current conflicts caused down to simply social media? So if we completely remove all social media, humanity instantly becomes the utopian society from science fiction. STFU with this stupidity you ignorant child.
Go ahead, be evil. It is certainly your prerogative.
Edit: just look at how many votes “But what if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?” got. Like, what a wild-ass bullshit thing to say. This thread is definitely being astroturfed.
I’ve noticed a lot of turfing on all of these threadsfed posts. It’s becoming more and more. People just need to get a threads account if it’s so important to them.
Well they’re clearly aware of us, we can’t pretend we’re just a bunch of silly little beans doing our own thing anymore. Of course they’re going to do this. There is literally not a single reason for them not to.
We should have rules against turfing like this in the community, and remove or ban people suspected of it. I get the benefits of having a neutral place but at the same time we don’t allow advertising here so why should suspected astroturfing be any different.
This is the point of the freedom of federated communities: we can read whatever the fuck we want from wherever the fuck we want without having authoritarian censor-heavy limp-wrist adult-baby moderators and corporate fascists determining what we are allowed to read or affiliate with.
The freedom to read both sides and control what I want to interact with on my own will, and make my own decisions is why I’m fucking here. I don’t want people like you making decisions for me, go fuck yourself.
Thanks for noticing I’m evil. I’ll go make a nice blood sacrifice to my effigy of Satan by eating another baby.
The corporate internet is adopting an open protocol. I find that to be exciting. It’s not us “going back” to the corporate internet, it’s the corporate internet coming to us.
All of the corporate internet adopted open protocols in the first place. Expand your limited view and increase your awareness of the history of the networks as they evolved before Google, Microsoft, and Apple were beginning and end of tech. We got to now with open protocols. Now everything is being walled up by DRM since theyve managed to preintegrate it in all of the hardware across the board before the open protocols even come into play.
When you fuck over people with their freedoms, you don’t deserve the freedom to be extended to you.
It’s the same as paradox of tolerance. You shouldn’t be tolerant to intolerance, and you shouldn’t give freedom to those who want to strip it away from you.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse, if the instance you’re on isn’t doing what you want, you can move to another one. Or create your own.
I’d say that’s a pretty clear indicator of the popularity of decisions. Saying “No, you can’t do that, cause I don’t want that” is putting your desires above the desires of others.
You can spin up your own server… That’s what the fediverse is.
The freedom to do whatever you want as an admin, and the freedom of choosing another server where you’ll still be part of the network
Meta/Facebook threatens this, because their user base dwarfs the rest of the fediverse. They’re also running their own closed source server code… They can gatekeep their own federation
I would love it if companies joined the fediverse, but like, by making instances. Maybe even use it for their internal Intranet. Maybe they could add federation compatible APIs to their existing software
I don’t want a massive social network company to use their position to make a new social network…
Federation is like Bitcoin or Tor - it’s decentralized, until one org becomes too large… At that point, they can control the network in countless ways
Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you’ve already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you’re too deep in.
Don’t let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I honestly don’t understand how some of you have this point of view. This isn’t a they’ve been evil once or twice thing. This is a they’ve been evil at every single opportunity and actively seek out more opportunities to be evil for well over a decade and you’re a fucking moron for trusting them thing.
Defederating after this happens will cause a giant strain on the Fediverse and will simply accelerate the problems for which we don’t want Meta here in the first place.
Federation means you can defederate for any reason. It’s not a set of principles, it is an ontological arrangement whereby power is distributed. Plenty of users will look for defederated instances to join because keeping facebook out of our shit is what we want. You are free to find instances that are federated. Nobody will stop you.
Theres a reason nobody uses it anymore. Google extended the crap out of it, effectively took over the protocol and then retired it. It bears the same echoes of what’s happening here.
This didn’t happen. In fact Google was the one who fell behind development when the protocol moved on and deprecated unencrypted connections for example. People just don’t make it a priority to use XMPP instead of the walled gardens they are using now.
I don’t like Meta. Why do you assume everyone has to be on one “team” or the other? I’m in favor of open protocols and open protocols can be used by anyone. Even if you don’t like them.
As I just said, I don’t like Meta. And keep your homophobic slurs out of civil discussion.
But they are not yet a bad actor on the Fediverse because they haven’t actually joined the Fediverse yet. If you’re so convinced that they’re going to do something awful, why the big deal about defederating preemptively?
You don’t like Meta. You’re just arguing vociferously for inviting Meta, a company with nearly two decades of documented abuse of everything they touch, into another space for them to fuck over.
Pull the other one, Sparky. It plays Jingle Bells.
There’s no need to invite Meta, the invitation has already been given by the fact that ActivityPub is an open protocol. I’m just very annoyed by the cavalcade of people who were so quick to tout that benefit over Reddit’s walled garden now turning on their heel and reacting “but not like that!” When that openness is made use of.
You are either innocently unaware of how it works or just dissassociating from reality. Meta has to compete with Fediverse if it can’t directly harvest user activity for marketing and advertising systems. They quite obviously will (have to?) do everything they can to influence technical decisions that allow them to steer the protocols in a way that is profitable rather than for the good of the end users and communities.
They ultimately will seek to build walls around their development and services on their terms and leave others not part of their profitable ecology of development outside of those walls. They are a publicly traded corporation, this is just a normal evolution in for-profit corps, even if current employees do act as positive curators of community engagement.
The microbloggers are a bit different than us, in that they actually try to create a “social circle.” Threaded discussions with random assholes like we enjoy tend to be more focused on giving us someone to reply to.
They’re confused and likely think that federation means no rules and unconditional access to any server from your account, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve said it elsewhere but people craving that don’t want the fediverse, they want Nostr.
This place is the way it is, why it’s enjoyable to be on, because we can and do defederate servers run by bots, trolls, or any other malicious actors, otherwise they run wild.
Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don’t like them!
This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone’s keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.
If you haven’t noticed them doing dirty or damaging things for the last twenty years, feel free to engage with them.
There’s more than enough evidence to show their intentions are far from pure.
How are we supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
They’re a multinational corporation, they don’t need us to host their shit for you to be able to read a goddamn article and learn something.
If you don’t yet understand that they’re evil that’s on you.
But why do YOU get to choose for everyone else?
Choose what? If you want to find an instance unscrupulous enough to federate with that company then go for it. Who is stopping you?
People like OP here, begging admin to block it?
Like are you for real? He’s literally asking them to take my choice away.
It is always the admins’ choice, that has never been any different. You are free to choose which instance you are part of.
This petition changes nothing about that.
“We need to defederate from them” is not a petition…
Also, you could just choose not to subscribe to them, go to a place where they are defederated, or even just block them yourself with the right apps.
That’s a whole lot of choice for you in a platform based around decentralization and user choice.
But on the flip side if you just make everyone defederate them, then you’re removing user choice completely just based on your personal feelings on the matter.
That doesn’t seem fair to me just because you personally hate something that I don’t.
What if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?
The fuck is wrong with you?
Then feel free to go to threads or somewhere that does federate with them. You don’t have to stay on a particular instance if they don’t federate with something you want to engage with.
That’s your freedom of choice.
There is no plan for kbin to defederate with Threads, which is why I’m here you dolt. Maybe you should leave.
Makes sense, Kbin is one of the most lax instances when it comes to moderation and defederation, and that’s why they’re considered so bad when it comes to spam and illegal content.
I like the freedom of kbin but also maintain an account on Beehaw because they are the complete opposite with frustratingly strict moderation to the point of moderators telling people to check their naughty language at the door (which is totally understandable).
Then get fucked?
Meta are largely responsible for the current state of affairs right now. Nearly every current war, genocide, fake news, and more can be tied back to Meta.
Are you seriously simplifying all current conflicts caused down to simply social media? So if we completely remove all social media, humanity instantly becomes the utopian society from science fiction. STFU with this stupidity you ignorant child.
Simply? No.
Dangerously and deliberately engageful? Yes.
Look at the impact of FB in the Rohingya genocide for fucks sake.
Fucking right wing wanker.
Then you’re evil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Go ahead, be evil. It is certainly your prerogative.
Edit: just look at how many votes “But what if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?” got. Like, what a wild-ass bullshit thing to say. This thread is definitely being astroturfed.
I’ve noticed a lot of turfing on all of these threadsfed posts. It’s becoming more and more. People just need to get a threads account if it’s so important to them.
Well they’re clearly aware of us, we can’t pretend we’re just a bunch of silly little beans doing our own thing anymore. Of course they’re going to do this. There is literally not a single reason for them not to.
It just sucks how rapidly it’s becoming. Can’t even spend a year in bliss before the shitheels arrive.
We should have rules against turfing like this in the community, and remove or ban people suspected of it. I get the benefits of having a neutral place but at the same time we don’t allow advertising here so why should suspected astroturfing be any different.
It’s sarcasm. I upvoted them because I would have said something similar to highlight the absurdity of any argument against defederating with Threads.
Read their replies. They are apparently being sincere. You have fallen victim to Poe’s law.
Oh fuck…
Really?
Lol
Thanks, it is my prerogative.
This is the point of the freedom of federated communities: we can read whatever the fuck we want from wherever the fuck we want without having authoritarian censor-heavy limp-wrist adult-baby moderators and corporate fascists determining what we are allowed to read or affiliate with.
The freedom to read both sides and control what I want to interact with on my own will, and make my own decisions is why I’m fucking here. I don’t want people like you making decisions for me, go fuck yourself.
Thanks for noticing I’m evil. I’ll go make a nice blood sacrifice to my effigy of Satan by eating another baby.
Right, so nobody’s stopping you from joining threads, or making your own instance. You can call it evil.villain. Why don’t you?
So when they steamroll this place so hard you only get their side of the story, what then?
I promise you nothing is going to get steamrolled, you are simply being very ignorant.
In fact, I will @ you with a reminder in 30 days as a reply to this message of how mundane and routine everything is to prove you are wrong.
Well fucking said.
._.
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I’m sure there will be instances that remain federated with them, and you can join those… or just join Threadstagram.
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t understand why people fled from the corporate internet only to be excited to go back to them.
Defederating with Threads is a great way to make people “go back to them”, so I’m not sure what your point is.
The corporate internet is adopting an open protocol. I find that to be exciting. It’s not us “going back” to the corporate internet, it’s the corporate internet coming to us.
All of the corporate internet adopted open protocols in the first place. Expand your limited view and increase your awareness of the history of the networks as they evolved before Google, Microsoft, and Apple were beginning and end of tech. We got to now with open protocols. Now everything is being walled up by DRM since theyve managed to preintegrate it in all of the hardware across the board before the open protocols even come into play.
When you fuck over people with their freedoms, you don’t deserve the freedom to be extended to you.
It’s the same as paradox of tolerance. You shouldn’t be tolerant to intolerance, and you shouldn’t give freedom to those who want to strip it away from you.
That’s like freedom 101.
decentralization purpose is choice to move to other instance
Or build my own, which is great to have as a contingency.
So… admins aren’t free to choose? Why are you trying to take away admins freedom of choice? Sounds kind of authoritarian to me.
If you’re self-hosting a personal instance, do whatever you want.
But if you’re hosting a community for other people, you should consider what they want. That’s the responsibility of a community leader.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse, if the instance you’re on isn’t doing what you want, you can move to another one. Or create your own.
I’d say that’s a pretty clear indicator of the popularity of decisions. Saying “No, you can’t do that, cause I don’t want that” is putting your desires above the desires of others.
This is why I love federated communities; the freedom of choice is great to have.
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Sign up on Threads if you want Threads content. Fucking duh.
You can spin up your own server… That’s what the fediverse is.
The freedom to do whatever you want as an admin, and the freedom of choosing another server where you’ll still be part of the network
Meta/Facebook threatens this, because their user base dwarfs the rest of the fediverse. They’re also running their own closed source server code… They can gatekeep their own federation
I would love it if companies joined the fediverse, but like, by making instances. Maybe even use it for their internal Intranet. Maybe they could add federation compatible APIs to their existing software
I don’t want a massive social network company to use their position to make a new social network…
Federation is like Bitcoin or Tor - it’s decentralized, until one org becomes too large… At that point, they can control the network in countless ways
Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you’ve already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you’re too deep in.
Don’t let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I just love this comparison 🥰
Pandemic Legacy is a great game.
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“yes, they kill, torture, brutalize, pillage, and kick puppies, but if we don’t allow them an equal voice, can we truly say we are any better?”
Yes. Yes we can.
I’m sure Meta won’t be awful this time! Sure they’ve been awful quite literally every single chance they’ve gotten, but they won’t be this time!
Damn. Better block it now because we literally can never go back to reassess.
Fuck I wish we had more time to decide!
I’m not saying they won’t. I’m saying there’s no reason to defederate preemptively.
I honestly don’t understand how some of you have this point of view. This isn’t a they’ve been evil once or twice thing. This is a they’ve been evil at every single opportunity and actively seek out more opportunities to be evil for well over a decade and you’re a fucking moron for trusting them thing.
That’s the only way to do it with minimal damage.
Defederating after this happens will cause a giant strain on the Fediverse and will simply accelerate the problems for which we don’t want Meta here in the first place.
For some reason I can’t dowvote this, so: this is a fucking stupid take
Federation means you can defederate for any reason. It’s not a set of principles, it is an ontological arrangement whereby power is distributed. Plenty of users will look for defederated instances to join because keeping facebook out of our shit is what we want. You are free to find instances that are federated. Nobody will stop you.
And as for things they’ve done, personally I find that knowingly stoking genocide in Myanmar is enough for me to not give them any more chances.
How many times does Meta have to show you who they are before you start paying attention?
I’d be closer to agreeing with you if XMPP didn’t completely invalidate your point. They did it there and they’ll do it here.
XMPP works great, you just have to use it. It doesn’t invalidate anything.
Theres a reason nobody uses it anymore. Google extended the crap out of it, effectively took over the protocol and then retired it. It bears the same echoes of what’s happening here.
This didn’t happen. In fact Google was the one who fell behind development when the protocol moved on and deprecated unencrypted connections for example. People just don’t make it a priority to use XMPP instead of the walled gardens they are using now.
If you like meta so much, why are you here?
I don’t like Meta. Why do you assume everyone has to be on one “team” or the other? I’m in favor of open protocols and open protocols can be used by anyone. Even if you don’t like them.
Every open protocol that survives past the first couple of days of actual use, no exceptions, has some mechanism whereby bad actors can be removed.
Don’t use “open protocol” as your excuse for sucking Zuck the Fuck off.
As I just said, I don’t like Meta. And keep your homophobic slurs out of civil discussion.
But they are not yet a bad actor on the Fediverse because they haven’t actually joined the Fediverse yet. If you’re so convinced that they’re going to do something awful, why the big deal about defederating preemptively?
You don’t like Meta. You’re just arguing vociferously for inviting Meta, a company with nearly two decades of documented abuse of everything they touch, into another space for them to fuck over.
Pull the other one, Sparky. It plays Jingle Bells.
There’s no need to invite Meta, the invitation has already been given by the fact that ActivityPub is an open protocol. I’m just very annoyed by the cavalcade of people who were so quick to tout that benefit over Reddit’s walled garden now turning on their heel and reacting “but not like that!” When that openness is made use of.
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
You are either innocently unaware of how it works or just dissassociating from reality. Meta has to compete with Fediverse if it can’t directly harvest user activity for marketing and advertising systems. They quite obviously will (have to?) do everything they can to influence technical decisions that allow them to steer the protocols in a way that is profitable rather than for the good of the end users and communities.
They ultimately will seek to build walls around their development and services on their terms and leave others not part of their profitable ecology of development outside of those walls. They are a publicly traded corporation, this is just a normal evolution in for-profit corps, even if current employees do act as positive curators of community engagement.
The microbloggers are a bit different than us, in that they actually try to create a “social circle.” Threaded discussions with random assholes like we enjoy tend to be more focused on giving us someone to reply to.
Defederation is part of the protocol.
At least make your rhetoric somewhat resemble reality? Please?
They’re confused and likely think that federation means no rules and unconditional access to any server from your account, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve said it elsewhere but people craving that don’t want the fediverse, they want Nostr.
This place is the way it is, why it’s enjoyable to be on, because we can and do defederate servers run by bots, trolls, or any other malicious actors, otherwise they run wild.
Yes, and I’ve got nothing against defederation. Once there’s actually a reason to defederate.
Nearly 20 years of Facebook abuse is apparently not a reason.
Holy fucking shit is the attention span of humanity getting short.
The protocol only needed an open license that forbade profiting off user data.
That’s a pretty big restriction for an “open” protocol.
This IS Facebook. It’s guaranteed. They’re evil. Block them now.