Young voters overwhelmingly say they would support President Biden over former President Trump in a hypothetical head-to-head match-up if the 2024 presidential election were held today, according to a poll released Wednesday.
In the Economist/YouGov poll — conducted via web-based interviews Dec. 16-18 — more than half (53 percent) of registered voters under 30 said they would support Biden, and less than a quarter (24 percent) said they would support Trump.
Another 10 percent said they would support another candidate, 4 percent said they were not sure, and 9 percent said they wouldn’t vote.
You guys aren’t going to convince anyone to vote with the lesser of evils spiel. Shit’s gonna get bad and all you had to do was pick a real candidate.
What do you think happened in 2020?
People felt the absurdity. It’s been four years. The wound isn’t festering anymore.
Biden made a bunch of promises and acted like progressives and leftists actually had a seat at the table. The BBB, student loan, weed legalization, rail strike and gaza genocide have made it clear: We do not.
We gave him a chance and he gave us the finger.
You do realize that Biden can’t just declare things into law, right?
For the first two years, Biden had a Democratic House that could theoretically pass anything he wanted, but a Senate which was split nearly 50-50. If they didn’t get every vote, they could fail to pass a bill. And this doesn’t even get into the filibuster which would tank bills unless 60 votes were reached or the fact that Manchin and Sinema frequently acted to sink Democratic bills despite technically being Democrats. Biden could put some pressure on them, but his options were limited. It’s not like he could hold a gun to their heads and force them to vote on favor of bills
Since January, Biden has had a Democratic Senate with a razor thin margin and a Republican House. This threw even more wrenches in the works.
And then there’s the Supreme Court. Thanks to Mitch McConnell, Trump, and the Republicans, the Supreme Court has a huge conservative majority. So Biden can try to take action for things like forgiving student loans, but then Republicans sue, the case ends up in the Supreme Court and the conservative justices rule that Biden isn’t allowed to do this by law. (He’s managed to find a way to forgive some loans even if it wasn’t as much as he wanted to do.)
Putting all the blame on Biden and saying “he didn’t fulfill all his promises” is disingenuous. He hasn’t exactly had the Congress and Supreme Court that could support what he wanted to do. Could he have done everything anyway and proclaimed that he makes the laws now? Perhaps, but then he’d be a fascist dictator and not working within our political system - exactly the type of thing that Trump wants to do and is properly criticized for.
It’s funny, the student loan thing was literally decided by the supreme Court reiterating that executive branch rulemaking can’t be done capriciously, and people are still pushing this patently false idea that Biden can legalize pot with the stroke of his pen.
Right. And Biden still managed to get some student loan forgiveness through.
I get people being upset when politicians don’t fulfill all their promises, but campaign promises tend to be aspirational statements. Once the politician gets into office, they run into the cold hard reality of how the government works.
This happens with every politician. It would be interesting to see all the promises that politicians from Reagan on made to see how well they kept them. I know there are some sites that track this, but I’m not sure they go that far back. It would be interesting to see if Biden is on par, ahead, or behind the average Presidential promises fulfilled.
I’ll give him credit for fighting for student loans (though he chose a stupid strategy and doesn’t seem to understand basic aspects of negotiation?), I give him zero credit for fighting for a minimum raise increase because of “the parliamentarian”….??
These two things are not the same and are regulated by different laws. By your logic we could conclude that Biden couldn’t do anything.
It’s also important to note that Biden used the weakest legal reasoning available to him when canceling student load debt. Debtor advocates were very critical of him at the time for doing that because it increased the likelihood it would be shot down in court.
Buddy, you seem to misunderstand something here. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. If you want to believe Biden deserves your vote go nuts. It makes no difference to me.
But I’m telling you as someone who voted for him in the 2020 general: Fuck Joe Biden. Do whatever you want with that information. But trust no amount of these excuses will change my mind. I was already angry I had to give him a chance in 2020 after people voted for him in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressive and leftist efforts. I held up my end of the bargain. Biden and the people who elected him in the primaries did not.
Fuck Joe Biden for screwing up the BBB. Fuck Joe Biden for negotiating down from $50k student loan forgiveness. Fuck Joe Biden for waiting until after the midterms to fuck over the rail workers. Fuck Joe Biden for blocking the strike. Fuck Joe Biden for supporting Israel against our wishes.
For someone who needs the votes of people like me to win the 2024 general election he sure ain’t fucking acting like it. He can go fuck himself along with everyone who voted for him in the primaries.
Ok, so I get that you are privileged enough that you can probably ride out Trumpist fascism without much real damage, at least for a while. Just understand that there are many vulnerable people who will be seriously harmed by your decision to do anything besides voting for Biden. This isn’t dooming or trying to scare you into a vote, it’s a simple statement of fact.
If you are fine with that moral liability, then carry on.
Funny, that’s precisely how I view the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. Where’s your ire for them?
So who you voting for then?
Definitely not trump or Biden. If a decent 3rd party candidate shows I’ll go that route otherwise I’ll just write in.
Gotcha, well that sounds pretty worthless.
Sounds like people should have made a better choice in the 2020 primaries then.
You’re angry because you’re ignorant, and because of that, you’re threatening to not vote for the best option in the general election out of spite. Not voting or voting for anyone but Biden is an effective vote for his opponent, which at this time appears to be Trump. So you honestly think that there is anyone else currently running that you think would better represent your interests than the guy that had actually tried to do just that without the needed support?
You can hate the guy all you want, but check in on the reasons you listed and gain a better understanding of the situation around them so you can see how far off you are.
How about in just a high level way, explain how someone could have realistically handled those situations in a better way that would have benefits the country better. Student Loans, Rail Strike, and Israel, how would you have pleased everyone?
Call it whatever you want. But Biden is depending on a lot of votes from people like me to win the 2024 election. Would you rather deal with us or MAGA?
If you don’t vote for the front runner on the Democratic ticket in the general, then there’s no difference. If you’re even considering, at this stage, not voting for the assumed candidate, Biden, then you’re no better than maga. I’m not out here to convince you that he’s great. I’m just saying you threw some blanket, bullshit reasons out, then act like there’s a better choice. In reality, there’s not. You can piss and moan all you want, but the general election is not the place to take a stand.
Is this your idea of a functional democracy?
I doubt I’m going to change your mind at all, but I just want to let you know your information about the rail strike is incorrect. Biden did help secure sick pay for those workers, here’s part of the statement from the IBEW:
“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.”
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
The student loan aid was also legally blocked by Congress, and the military budgets were also passed by Congress. There’s no magic wand to a lot of the problems you seem to have with Biden, unfortunately. He isn’t the sole authority in the US govt.
This is the unfortunate danger of populism generally. Bernie promised big things with no clear nor realistic path to delivering them, and people who are political rookies think he would have been solely capable of achieving those things through fervent advocacy or belief alone.
Sweeping populist rhetoric slams into actual reality with similar velocity whether it’s Trump’s or Sanders’ when actually put into office. Very similarly to how Trump being elected in 2016 didn’t magically erect a giant border wall, Sanders being elected would not have resulted in us getting single payer healthcare, changed every long-term military alliance we had with others, eliminated the military industrial complex, nor canceled all student loans.
These things are all from a position of “well, the politician just didn’t believe enough!” and no matter how fervent the belief, it takes a long time to affect change in the American system. Even illegally and forcefully turning America completely fascist is a multi-term project, which is why we don’t have grand fuhrer trump this moment.
Because those people don’t have a basic understanding of how the 3 branches of government actually work.
If I’m elected to congress I’ll work towards passing a law mandating all licensed broadcasters run 24 hour marathons of School House Rock and other “USA civics edutainment for children” shows on a set date every year.
That doesn’t justify anyone voting for Biden over Bernie or the other options in the 2020 primaries.
I voted Bernie in the primary, and then (as reasonable adult) voted Biden in the general.
Well buddy, you’re in a two party system. You going to just give a literial fascist a chance because Biden wasn’t able to wrangle the crazies on the other side to agree all the time?
that’s cutting of your nose to spite your face in the worst way.
Nope. I’m just not going to prop up a candidate in the general election who was voted on in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressives and leftists. The people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries can go fuck themselves.
Yes but the part of this you keep dodging is that any Republican is worse. They have all the negatives of Biden plus a bunch of additional terrible stuff. You may not like the system, none of us here fucking do, but it’s either Biden or someone worse. When gay marriage and divorce are illegal, and bibles are the only book allowed in school, try to remind yourself how Biden would have been just as bad. Both sides are not the same, they’re both bad sure, but one is so much worse than the other, it’s ludicrous that people can’t wrap their minds around this.
Then the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries should have made a better decision. They can go fuck themselves.
So do you see this as punishment for liberals? Because it will not punish the people you want it to.
Nope. I just see this as people voting selfishly in the 2020 primaries learning that they need to consider the goals of other groups of voters they depend on in the general election.
I’m ready to work together when they are.
Another “centrist” claiming “bOtH sIdEs”
I’m not a centrist. I’m a leftist.
Seems legit.
Because all student loans forgiven have been forgiven via executive order, Biden is literally the only person who didn’t give you the finger over it
Didn’t the courts strike down his student loan forgiveness plan? If you support the plan, blame the courts, not Biden.
Biden used the weakest legal argument available to him increasing the likelihood it would get struck down. Debtor advocates were not pleased with his decision and that was before the lawsuit. He does bear some responsibility for its failure in court.
You really think anyone voting for Biden in 2020 had high hopes he’d be a really progressive candidate? People didn’t want him then and we don’t want him now, but as long as we’re dealing with actual nazis on the other side I don’t see how the choice has fundamentally changed in 4 years.
I don’t think anyone who supported say Bernie or Warren thought that Biden was a progressive. However, there were attempts made by the Biden campaign to appeal to progressives. After Bernie lost, Biden and Bernie staffers actually collaborated to release a joint list of policy proposals. I think that gave a lot of progressives false hopes for what a Biden presidency could be.
Not high hopes no. But higher and considering the very thin margin he won by in the 2020 general that’s a pretty important point Biden apologists seem to want to sweep under the rug.
Maybe you don’t understand the stakes. Biden is the lesser of two evils, and no other candidate is anywhere near popular enough to take on Trump. Biden is the only ethical vote.
Sounds like democracy is already dead then.
Democrats are in an abusive relationship - it’s just better than the alternative.
There were plenty of better alternatives in the 2020 primaries than Biden. People voted him specifically to fuck over Progressives and Leftists. They’d rather lose to MAGA than leftists.
A lot of people voted for Biden in the primaries because they were being told he had the best chance of beating Trump. Plenty of those people actually favored the policy proposals of other candidates.
This is a messaging problem then. The message that other candidates had a good chance against Trump didn’t resonate as much as the message that Biden had a good chance. We need to figure out why that is if we hope to change that.
Leftists are not and will never be popular in the US, even if specific causes they support are popular.
That’s your messaging problem. You need to make your causes seem and feel less extreme.
Republicans didn’t start with Trump. They inched there.
That’s not true. You’re confusing punditry for polling. The former is biased against progressive reforms while the latter shows that large majorities of Americans are generally in favor of them.
Read into that message a bit more and what you get is: “We voted for Biden in the primaries in order to fuck over progressive and leftists efforts.” Now those same people are expecting our votes in the general? They can get fucked.
So you’re willing to throw away our democracy and freedom, just so you can get revenge on Biden and everyone who voted for him. He barely has any power and can only sign bills that the house republicans are willing to pass.
If I’m obligated to vote for someone I fucking despise then Democracy is already dead.
Honey, nobody was even thinking about you. Maybe if you spent the last 50 years shaping the political ecosystem to be more receptive to your ideals, like the fascists did, you might have actually have a political presence worth noting. You lost the long game, now all that’s left is damage control.
Sounds like you think you can win the 2028 general election all on your own then. Good luck.
You really need to get over this persecution complex.
2020 was extremely high stakes and the general population doesn’t think the way you do, and it wasn’t about fucking anyone over.
If you’re not going to hold your nose and sit out from picking a centrist and a far-right fascist, good luck ever getting any leftist policies implemented ever. Cutting off your nose to spite your face isn’t how we move forward.
I know I won’t change your mind, but try to at least practice some introspection instead of telling everybody to “get fucked”. The stakes are even higher this year than in 2020, and your choices are maybe a little bit the next four years and some real change after, or no chance ever. Throwing a fit will push us toward the latter.
Great. Then it sounds like my vote isn’t needed for the 2024 general election.
Buddy, you can’t have it both ways. Either this “general population” of Democrat voters is capable of winning general elections all on their own and can continue to ignore anyone else who has a different opinion. Or, they need to wake the fuck up and realize they can’t keep picking primary candidates they know we hate and then act shocked and surprised when we don’t vote for them in the general.
Yeah, it’s not at all the fault of you idiots who don’t understand the realities of a two party system