- cross-posted to:
- skeptic
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- nottheonion
- cross-posted to:
- skeptic
- [email protected]
- nottheonion
Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick had a few choice words for the public on his way out the door of the Pentagon’s All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office
Sean Kirkpatrick was once the man in charge of a D.C.-backed agency tasked with investigating claims into unidentified anomalous phenomena, the new term for what most people still call UFOs. He stepped down from the position in December, and has now published a excoriating farewell letter in Scientific American detailing some of the reasons why.
So why did he stop hunting for UFOs on behalf of the American government? In short: Because congressional leaders believe in conspiracy theories with absolutely no substantial proof. “Our efforts were ultimately overwhelmed by sensational but unsupported claims that ignored contradictory evidence yet captured the attention of policy makers and the public, driving legislative battles and dominating the public narrative,” Kirkpatrick said in Scientific American.
If you had the tech for FTL travel, you could destroy any planet with a single ship.
Just kamikaze it and your target literally couldn’t see it coming.
It makes a nuke look a balloon popping.
If they existed and knew about humans, and for some reason were scared of us… First contact would be Earth getting vaporized.
It would be the equivalent of a human putting down a rabid racoon to that species.
First, FTL travel cannot exist with our current understanding of physics. This is why you see most sci-fi going to either wormholes/jump drives - Orion’s arm, star gate, BSG; or by jumping into not-our-universe- Star Wars, also star gate, and andromeda. Maybe Star Trek, but Alcubierre drives themselves would not be able to go FTL. The short explanation is it would violate causality. (Wormholes don’t actually violate causality, but otherwise bridge two points in space-time)
Secondly, it should be noted that while technological advancement does impart military advantages… evaporating a space rock serves no real purpose; and doing so would represent a massive economic investment; further on this point, the sightings are insisting they’re visiting frequently.
Which given our instability (they have every season of the Jerry springer show, for example.)… the question isn’t would they decide to send us to oblivion, or not. But visit us.
And given the energies involved getting here, a species that hasn’t thought twice about nuking themselves isn’t going to think twice about reverse engineering their tech and doing exactly what you propose. And we are very likely to take their presence… the wrong way.
Final though: if aliens were to show up on earth? It’s either to harvest the only thing that makes earth special: life. (Aka they’re slavers or something.) alternatively, they’re space Mormons.
I might prefer the slavers.
Wouldn’t it be annoying if they were both?
There would be a reason to destroy Earth if you were an alien species and the reason some scientists say we should silence our communications to the rest of the universe. Namely, to eliminate us as a potential threat/competitor. SETI has written about it themselves. The example given is from Greg Bear’s novel, The Forge of God:
http://www.setileague.org/editor/wolves.htm
This is an answer to the Fermi paradox. The idea that one species grows so xenophobic or territorial or whatever as to destroy all other life.
The good news is that such an end would be quick, so I tend to not worry about it.
The other answer is… they actively avoid us. Which seems more reasonable and optimistic.
Yep, only those 2 options exist.
None others at all.
until you manage to rewrite our understanding of how the universe around us works… yes.
it is possible for stuff to exist that is already going FTL. But it’s not possible to accelerate a massive particle to c. (this would require infinite energy, and definitely violates our understanding of physics,) and in any case, being able to transmit information (including, massive particles) faster than c; violates causality (by creating a closed timelike curve,)
The only way I see to get around it - is to literally go around it. That is to say, not travel through spacetime. ergo, either traveling in some other plane of existence (hyperspace, slipspace, whatever.) or simply connecting two distant physical points (wormholes.)
As for motivations of some proposed alien species…. There’s very little we can offer them that wouldn’t be easier to get elsewhere. They don’t need our physical resources, and they don’t need our help with science or knowledge.
As you suggest, if they wanted us gone, we’d be gone before we ever knew it.
That leaves either physical labor or culture. We certainly pump our “culture” out to the stars, so there’s really no need for them to actually come all the way here.
Im not who replied to, so no, I didnt suggest that.
And then you contridict yourself by pointing out other options that exist beyond FTL travel.
Another example: Von Newman probes? There could easily be something in the solar system that was sent eons ago to solar systems with habitable planets that reports home occasionally. Would also explain crashes, the expendable probes are made to be just that. Expendable.
Just today we had a comet that was detected until right before it was on top of us.
I contradicted myself?
Where?
According to our understanding of physics, the only two ways to get stuff from point a to point b in an apparently FTL (but not really) manner is to go outside of spacetime to do it. Either by going in to some other kind of space time (hyperspace- Star Wars, Babylon 5; Slip space of Andromeda,) or simply jumping from one point to another (as in Stargate, or battle star galactica)
Whatever is being moved never actually goes FTL; and therefore never violated causality or consumes shitloads of energy. (Read: consumed all the energy in the universe then fails because physics is uncaring.)
Von Newman probes are interesting, but it’s really unlikely. First the theories assert that they’re here and in regular interaction. We’d notice the extraction of materials if it was happening on earth, or the moon. Or any body we have under regular surveillance.
Remember, as far as we know, the only thing that makes earth special is its life. We know this because we can detect composition of things like stars and gas giants and the atmosphere if rocky worlds. (Isn’t the JWST amazing?). While I wouldn’t say we know if life exists elsewhere, we do know that there’s not much point in coming here for inert resources.
Iron, rare earth elements, water, oxygen, carbon, unobtainium, obtainium. They’re all equally rare or not-all-that-rare here and in other places.
The only thing actually unique to earth is its life- and that may just be a question of flavor over actual scarcity. (We don’t know.)
The only reasons to come here are to study us (xenopology? Or whatever you want to call alien anthropology.) which largely can happen remotely. Fuck we even sent a message out including genetic structure. It would consist of scientific curiosity to come and study us further, and most of that can be done without ever coming into the system, nevermind directly visiting earth.
Did I mention the nukes? Radio isotopes are in our atmosphere and presumably detectable by anyone one with more than our current level of technology. That we do that to ourselves is a good indication they should maybe not introduce themselves, and leave us as an uncontacted species.
Similar to how we leave the Solomon Islanders mostly uncontacted. Because they tend to kill whoever shows up. (Yeah, that missionary guy… I don’t blame them.)
Which leaves the illicit or the religious. The illicit would have to be us- slaves for labor, or something else. Entertainment, maybe. Or a zoo. The religous sorts are probably not anything like actual Mormons. I just thing “Space Mormons” sounds more exciting than “Space Evangelicals” and I like keeping my head firmly attached so I won’t be making any jokes about “Space Muslims”. No matter what analogue you go with, though, their motives would be to proselytize.
Unless, of course they had some cultural imperative to conquer.
None of these options really explain why they’re not immediately obvious, however. Religious sorts would want broad exposure, slavers… wouldn’t care to be subtle and would likely not be able to profit significantly off just a few handfuls of people. Conquerors would make themselves known,
Of course all this is rampant speculation. It’s unlikely we’d even recognize whatever is even alive nevermind sentient. It’s psychology and motivations are its own and probably only understandable in the most basic levels.
We have mathematically worked out near light speed travel, we just lack the energy requirements to test it currently. There are two methods proposed, one being riding a wave we create and the other riding under space(this one was way more confusing). The wave one would accumulate debris ahead of the wave so you aim at a planet then stop short propelling everything the wave has gathered at near light speed into the planet, instant obliteration. We are trying really hard to solve fission which is the only thing holding us up right now. Optimistically we might see a practical test in our life time albeit very late into our lives.
No we haven’t. There is no known mechanism to create an alcubierre drive.
At the risk of being dismissive, there’s no known way to mess with things in such a manner- nevermind enough understanding to say what happened to debris in the path.
What we have are hypothetical models that assume we have these things. But everyone acknowledges they’re purely speculative. (Fun, even possibly useful, but speculation all the same.)
ELI5 how we go under space?