Maybe if you understand why people react like that, you can be more than just frustrated about it.
Most people know that it’s morally questionable to eat meat, but they do it so often they’d have to consider themself evil to accept that. The alternative is to just double down on it and exclaim that the non-meat eater is the baddie for pushing their beliefs on people.
You can notice it when you just subtly bring it up and the way people overreact.
Dont you friggin dare make eating meat a political thing. Trump is a fucking cunt but if hes the only one defending you right to eat meat hes gonna have a whole lot more support than he does now. What you just implied is its anti woke to eat meat. I want you to think about how you just compared thousands of years of human suffering for so many different areas to eating a friggin bird that doesnt recognise itself in a mirror.
Meat is becoming political whether you like it or not. This is how politics have historically worked, people aren’t born conservative, they’re born, things are normalized and go unquestioned until you’re older and society changes enough.
In Europe there are (left-leaning) political parties entirely devoted to the cause of eliminating the animal holocaust.
People who are “left-leaning” in America say in 2010 as a 25 year old will be considered conservative in America in 2050 as a 65 year old, without their politics changing at all. They’ll be pro-Israel, pro animal abuse, pro-capitalism, and complaining how “leftists have gone off the deep end” being against animal abuse, worker abuse, and Palestinian genocide.
You dare compare the deaths of 6million people to that of animals. In my country there are also parties devoted to stopping all “animal abuse” they almost got 2% of the vote last election (thats with a preferential voting system) just cos an idea exists in the market place of ideas juat cos its new doesnt mean it better. I dont support animal abuse but im gonna go home and have chicken shnitty tonigh becausd thats not abuse imo. Non capitalist ideas have existed for hundreds of years at this point there is yet to be a successsfull implementation its been tested its failed we have diaregarded the idea and stuck with what works (there are many problema i dont deny that but at least it works). Israel palestine is whats called a basketcase 2 nations trying to exterminate eachother i believe the common term for this is called war the victor will write history as though they where on a just cause doing what must be done disregarding objective reality did we really need to firebomb dresdon unfound hiroshima and nagasaki was that nessasary or war crimes history says nesaasary cos we won and we wrote history thats just how it is how its been for thousands of years its the evolutinary most benificial move it will continue.
I think its a very conservative viewpoint that peoples views dont change over time mine have mine will continue to i went hard left i went hard right both sides trying to tell me how to act how to think i came to a realisation that its all bullshit now i look at both sides and make up my own mind. You are clearly being told how to think by the left i bet you have never gone to the most depraved parts of the alt right and read what they say empathised with it understood it you canot possibly think u understand something unless u have understood both sides you are being told how to think not thinking for yourself. I get it you truely beleive that killing animals is equivilent to murder im guessing u have done neither of those things so you cannot understand either. Go watch a human beg for their life before getting shot then go watch a chicken get killed by a farmer that cares about their animals one he has raised and cared for, then tell me thats the same (im guessing u wont do either cos u are too soft, to unwilling, to brainwashed, to stuck in your ways to watch both sides and come to a conclusion yourself).
Holocaust was a word before the Jewish holocaust you twat. Yes, you support animal abuse in the only way that matters, financially. You’re the same as people who pay to watch dogs fight or animal rapists.
What is happening to animals is definitionally a holocaust, it has nothing to do with the Jewish one.
Congrats on being a moderate lib, it shows. Have fun eating the tortured animal carcass, hope it makes you feel better. I’ll go have some plants because I don’t need to abuse animals to feel better about myself like fuckwit carnists.
I feel like I’m somewhere in between. I wish I could eat less meat, and I try really hard to eat more green “ruffage”, but also I’m simply not bougie enough to have a fridge constantly stocked with produce, nor the time to prepare it into something fulfilling before it goes bad, and I’m already struggling with keeping weight and muscle for my height and age.
I also refuse to eat substitutes that are “It’s like a thing you ate, but instead it’s molded flavored soy!”
Even still, industrial soy and palm oil farming have also been destroying the environment, by the way.
I’d be much more okay with respectfully eating something I hunted, that would feed my family for weeks or months, but I live in a bizarre place in the middle of the desert that by all rights shouldn’t even exist.
So the cognitive dissonance is a source of stress, but I also would like to survive so…?
I think ur over thinking it. Im pretty sure most people dont like being told what to do. I dont consider myself evil for earing meat why should i? I source most of my meat from responsible farmers most of whoms farms i have seen myself. Those animals live good happy lives then hop skip and a bolt to the head they end up in my freezer. You welcome to do as u wish as long as ur not stopping me from doing as i wish. If u tell someone they cant do something or are evil for doing something then of cause they are not going to be happy its called self determination.
I also don’t like being told what to do. But I can also recognise that its an extremely childish response to say “well you asked me not to, so I’m going to do it more”.
Its not childish according to game theory its the perfect responce a strong incentive not to repeat the activity. Its a u told me to do x cos u dont want x to happen i enjoy doing x im going to do x more now that u told me not to do x its an incentive to not tell people to not do x.
That’s the dumbest application of game theory I’ve ever heard.
This example would only apply if there were a finite amount of animals shared between the two people only and there were no other factors at play other than eating and being hungry. Additionally let’s assume the x is [eat animals]. This then defines the reason why people are telling you to not eat animals (the second x) as simply because “they don’t like it”. It shows you are missing the point entirely.
Don’t pretend your “you don’t like it so I’m going to do more of it” is anything more than “owning the annoying vegans who told me what to do”.
Everything can be boiled down to wants and needs u dont need to not eat animals u want to not eat animals. There are a finite amount of animals and if there was infinite u run into an infinity paradox (its the equivilent to a trolly problem of 1 person per integer on track a and 1 person per even integer on track b doesnt matter where the trolly goes the same number of people die) hence if there was infinite u being vegan does literally nothing. I didnt say its the only reason just that its not childish to implement optimal game theory.
It not just owning the vegans (though it does do that effectivly) its mathematically assigning a cost for u for telling someone what to do.
You realize you only get told what to do by vegans because you hang out where they hang out. If you keep coming here and arguing with them, you probably are here because it serves your own needs somehow…
How is [email protected] in any way associated with vegans. And yes i quite enjoy arguing in general your not special your just one of the many many groups of people i enjoy disagreeing with like u are entertaining ill give u that maybe on the same level as the extreme left or russian shill but at least ur not as dumb as the ccp supporters.
Good point, most people just justify it and don’t really question the morality. But after being told, precisely how and why it is probably immoral, and that animals dont live peaceful lives at the happy factory, what do you do?
That’s when coping mechanisms kick in.
I’m not even vegan, im just interested in the psychology of it all.
My cope is unga bunga monkey instincs and soy crap is expensive.
There is no god, morality is invented by humans, it’s not punishable by law, therefore no consequences for my actions on me.
As for everything affected by my actions, keep it at a safe distance i guess? Just like you, don’t rub it in my face because it makes me uncomfortable.
I think if we all seriously started analysing our actions as much as vegans want us to, we’d all hate ourselves for even existing.
But im too tired for this wannabe deep bullshit so ima go back to destroying the planed by having a server somewhere emit pollution so i can listen to muh monkey brain happy songs on youtube.
Yeah sometimes i wonder why i argue with these assholes then i come up with a line like “hop skip and a bolt to the head” and my little monkey brains goes hahahaha. I mean im trying not to think abt it too hard but the vegans might be right we arnt that different we kill our fellow humans with almost every action we take so in the end its the vegans who care so much about not harming animals that murder is illegal therefore its their fault there is any difference at all.
Funny how when it comes to veganism that everyone suddenly only eats the flesh pf animals they knew personally and that were cuddled to death. Do you ever order food made with animal products when eating out?
I’ve noticed this projection almost always, as well. In my experience vegans usually keep it to themselves, yet those who eat meat tend to latch onto veganism and keep going on about it.
I eat meat, no intention to quit at this moment, however I rarely hear about vegans irl. People who don’t like veganism for some reason? I hear them all the time.
The amount of meat eaters is multiple times that of vegans. And plenty of them throw in your face how much they love eating meat and sharing recipes. How about the whole Instagram food picture trend?
But because you agree with their philosophy, it doesn’t feel “in your face” to you.
edit: y’all mofos are inhaling tardygrades as I type this. there’s 40 million skin mites that live on your lower lip.
and you love the flavor. and if it wasn’t blindingly obvious I’m fucking with you but yeah mmmm I’m Vegan* (*cept for the mites and spiders) too
aw you don’t eat animals?
that’s a lie.
You consumed 3 spiders last week while sleeping. God knows how many gnats and other bugs.
Stop acting all superior, the only thing you’ve got going for you is the certainty that you’ve eliminated mammals from your diet and are subsisting on bugs.
Damn, you’re right, damn. Guess there’s no real difference between trying to avoid causing suffering and still causing a little, and not trying to avoid it and causing a lot. No difference at all. Damn.
Sorry, it’s just kind of identical to real comments that I’ve seen before about how we can’t avoid running over insects when we drive and crap like that
First i love that u got downvoted for this lol friggin hilariouse.
Second you more right than u think most vegan diets rely on food with farming practices that rape the land so fucking hard. Its actually been calculated that a vegan diet kills more animals than a non vegan one but its insects getting killed by farmers with chemicals (usually nerve agents) but bugs arent cute and fluffy so nobody cares.
Pesticides or GMO are going to be used for agriculture either way (vegan/non vegan diets). regardless, your assertion that vegan diet kills more is specious conceptually and ridiculous in premise - just growing a chicken requires more energy than growing grains, legumes or fungus. If you have evidence post it, otherwise lol nah man.
downvotes were probably for the poor way I made a joke. I don’t take it personally, admit it wasn’t great humor. But you’ll never get me to think Vegans are harming teh ec0sytM!!
All the vegans I know garden or farm themselves, and I get to ride on their experience with my own tomato, cucumber, peppers, and green beans, and I live in the city. We just planted our onion and zuchinni starters but I’ve never done these before so we’ll see. It’s amazing what you can produce in two raised beds.
The lowest estimate for land required per person per year i could find was 1,300 m^2/person/year thats a hell of a lot of land so I commend your efforts in growing your own food it a very rewarding proccess gives a better product and really does increase your satisfaction with it (something about dopamine for doing work and enjoying it or something blar blar science shit). But honestly your not really going to be making much of an impact with your efforts (thats no reason not to enjoy it as a hobby tho).
I aint vegan but growing ones own food whether that be livestock or plants a is rewarding experience.
Warning about tomatoes u want at least like 7 beds and rotate all ur crops each year as tomatoes get fungal problems that can persist in the soil for like 7 years, depending where u are the birds will learn where ya food is so u might need to net it at some point. Beans are piss easy its hard to fuck em up give em good support and ur set. Onions arent too hard just gotta be carefull with them while they still as starter stock endless effort watering seeds i just put a shitonne of seeds in a tray and water it everyday keep it inside in the sun till they start to croud then stick em out also u never have to buy onion stock just let one or ur onions go to seed and tomatoes just try some seeds form some on a paper towel. Also can i suggest corn its great fun (huge waste of space) and tastes infinitly better as the second its picked it starts converting sugars to starch.
Raise yourself some chickens give em a good life feed em well get verifyably good eggs hatch our own chickens then after u realise u cant give away that many roosters the greatest chicken you have ever had awaits chicken that is ethical cared for loved from start to neck twisting end. If ur not comfortable breaking its neck a chicken head sized funnel and a VERY sharp knife does the job the chaos afterwards is just nerves releasing chemicals as long as its quick its completely painless. And hell if u keep ur own chickens they gonna get old and sick and need a quick end opposed to forcing them to suffer on.
I find it funny that a single story locked behind a paywall on springer is TEH EVIDENCE yet such a huge finding isn’t researched and documented elsewhere.
and again, the concept violates the laws of thermodynamics. it’s an energy economy. I can get as much protein and nutrients from veg for a fraction of the energy input compared to livestock.
A meat based diet actually needs more farmland than a vegan diet, since it’s less efficient to grow crops to feed animals to feed humans, than it is to grow crops that directly feed the humans. Animals don’t just grow fat on their own, they need to be fed to get there.
Not all the food we grow for animals can be consuned for humans nor can the land support human food. Animals server a single perpose they are nutrient condensers they take grass as an input then hop skip and a bolt to the head later we have condensed caloreis into the form of meet.
Only if you neutered them very young. Removal of the testicles reduces the potential for odor and taint associated with male hormones in boars after puberty. If you didn’t do this to your pet pig, you are going to regret it when you cook it.
Source: My mother ran the local 4H club. Kids shouldn’t see live castrations of animals IMHO. Especially since they are mostly done without anesthesia. The squeals still haunt me.
More like part of the “solution”, created and upheld intentionally by the meat&dairy industry, incl. happy pictures of cows on an open field in the sunshine. I eat meat, but I would be stupid argue that vegans aren’t right. The suffering and cruelty we are causing animals (and the related pollution to the planet) is unacceptable.
I‘m happy to know every farmer I buy meat from, and also how they are kept and treated (way better than these requires). I could even pet or buy any animal I want from them. Further, I’m happy that my county‘s laws are as strict as they are.
I know locally sourced is much better for the environment, but when talking about empathy for the animals, I don’t think getting to pet them before they die really cuts it.
Sounds fair. My parents made me look after some of our chickens from hatching then a couple months later there i was plucking the poor bastard. Gotta say it took a tremendouse amount of effort to raise and prepare that bird but my god did it tast so much better knowing all the love and effort that went into that animal.
So I agree it probably sucks for children to see it, but it sucks that the industry exists. Maybe we should all suffer through seeing where meat comes from.
(Just to be clear, I’m an occasional meat eater. I’ve seen all of this stuff, and after considering the this of meat and also the carbon effect, I have reduced my meat intake, but I’m not at zero yet. Hopefully some day. I just wanted to be clear I’m somewhat of a hypocrite so I’m not dishonest.)
Kids shouldn’t see live castrations of animals IMHO
Not without reason, but my daughter has been helping me with lambing since she was like 5 years old. Part of that is putting castrator bands on and docking tails, it hasn’t messed her up but just been a good lesson in responsibility and handling animals respectfully.
However lambs just bleat a couple times and lay down in the corner. Showing non-farm kids a bunch of squealing piglets out of nowhere is definitely going to traumatize them.
By the way a non-neutered boar sounds like a terrifying pet to me! I would hope any pet pigs are castrated for safety reasons alone.
Because on lemmy you can’t have a reasonable discussion about meat eating without being brigaded by vegans that add little to the conversation besides meat cruel and meat pollution.
Mate here brought up a good example. I myself raise chickens for egg production (i also engage in less sustainable/ humane meat eating to be frank). Would be happy to have an intelligent conversation with someone besides the usual 3-4 arguments like ‘battery chickens’ which don’t apply to my chooks are happy, have plenty of space, toys, food and protection.
Its not mutually exclusive, these animals are relient on us to give them a good and happy life. From thousands of years of coevolution they have found an evolutinary niche and that niche is humman support class ie food. If we did not eat them and use them to build the very society we stand in today they would not exist. We love them we care for them we give them good lives then we eat them.
Are you implying that the mentally disabled dont contribute to society i believe a little angry Austrian man had that same idea.
And eating meat of a sick animal sounds quite unhygienic to me.
New proposal: if we start eating all of the people who eat animals starting with those who eat the most meat, we will reduce the planet’s meat consumption quite rapidly.
There are many studies that suggest having pet can increase health both physical and mental and is correlatory to longer life expectancy. Your dog is contributing to society through your actions so dont let em down.
Lemmy works in mysterious ways, and there’s plenty of offended {vegans, crossfitters, communists, fascists, whatever} to downvote or brigade. Which is even more useless than on Reddit, but everyone needs a hobby.
And delicious!
How do you know someone eats animals? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.
Yup. And if you tell someone you don’t eat meat online, there’s always people that will say “Just for that, I’m gonna eat DOUBLE meat tonight!”
Only if their mom brings them more tendies into their basement.
Maybe if you understand why people react like that, you can be more than just frustrated about it. Most people know that it’s morally questionable to eat meat, but they do it so often they’d have to consider themself evil to accept that. The alternative is to just double down on it and exclaim that the non-meat eater is the baddie for pushing their beliefs on people. You can notice it when you just subtly bring it up and the way people overreact.
I don’t know if it goes that deep. Lately in the US it seems like yet another anti-woke playbook thing for the far right.
Dont you friggin dare make eating meat a political thing. Trump is a fucking cunt but if hes the only one defending you right to eat meat hes gonna have a whole lot more support than he does now. What you just implied is its anti woke to eat meat. I want you to think about how you just compared thousands of years of human suffering for so many different areas to eating a friggin bird that doesnt recognise itself in a mirror.
Meat is becoming political whether you like it or not. This is how politics have historically worked, people aren’t born conservative, they’re born, things are normalized and go unquestioned until you’re older and society changes enough.
In Europe there are (left-leaning) political parties entirely devoted to the cause of eliminating the animal holocaust.
People who are “left-leaning” in America say in 2010 as a 25 year old will be considered conservative in America in 2050 as a 65 year old, without their politics changing at all. They’ll be pro-Israel, pro animal abuse, pro-capitalism, and complaining how “leftists have gone off the deep end” being against animal abuse, worker abuse, and Palestinian genocide.
You dare compare the deaths of 6million people to that of animals. In my country there are also parties devoted to stopping all “animal abuse” they almost got 2% of the vote last election (thats with a preferential voting system) just cos an idea exists in the market place of ideas juat cos its new doesnt mean it better. I dont support animal abuse but im gonna go home and have chicken shnitty tonigh becausd thats not abuse imo. Non capitalist ideas have existed for hundreds of years at this point there is yet to be a successsfull implementation its been tested its failed we have diaregarded the idea and stuck with what works (there are many problema i dont deny that but at least it works). Israel palestine is whats called a basketcase 2 nations trying to exterminate eachother i believe the common term for this is called war the victor will write history as though they where on a just cause doing what must be done disregarding objective reality did we really need to firebomb dresdon unfound hiroshima and nagasaki was that nessasary or war crimes history says nesaasary cos we won and we wrote history thats just how it is how its been for thousands of years its the evolutinary most benificial move it will continue.
I think its a very conservative viewpoint that peoples views dont change over time mine have mine will continue to i went hard left i went hard right both sides trying to tell me how to act how to think i came to a realisation that its all bullshit now i look at both sides and make up my own mind. You are clearly being told how to think by the left i bet you have never gone to the most depraved parts of the alt right and read what they say empathised with it understood it you canot possibly think u understand something unless u have understood both sides you are being told how to think not thinking for yourself. I get it you truely beleive that killing animals is equivilent to murder im guessing u have done neither of those things so you cannot understand either. Go watch a human beg for their life before getting shot then go watch a chicken get killed by a farmer that cares about their animals one he has raised and cared for, then tell me thats the same (im guessing u wont do either cos u are too soft, to unwilling, to brainwashed, to stuck in your ways to watch both sides and come to a conclusion yourself).
Holocaust was a word before the Jewish holocaust you twat. Yes, you support animal abuse in the only way that matters, financially. You’re the same as people who pay to watch dogs fight or animal rapists.
What is happening to animals is definitionally a holocaust, it has nothing to do with the Jewish one.
Congrats on being a moderate lib, it shows. Have fun eating the tortured animal carcass, hope it makes you feel better. I’ll go have some plants because I don’t need to abuse animals to feel better about myself like fuckwit carnists.
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I feel like I’m somewhere in between. I wish I could eat less meat, and I try really hard to eat more green “ruffage”, but also I’m simply not bougie enough to have a fridge constantly stocked with produce, nor the time to prepare it into something fulfilling before it goes bad, and I’m already struggling with keeping weight and muscle for my height and age.
I also refuse to eat substitutes that are “It’s like a thing you ate, but instead it’s molded flavored soy!” Even still, industrial soy and palm oil farming have also been destroying the environment, by the way.
I’d be much more okay with respectfully eating something I hunted, that would feed my family for weeks or months, but I live in a bizarre place in the middle of the desert that by all rights shouldn’t even exist.
So the cognitive dissonance is a source of stress, but I also would like to survive so…?
I think ur over thinking it. Im pretty sure most people dont like being told what to do. I dont consider myself evil for earing meat why should i? I source most of my meat from responsible farmers most of whoms farms i have seen myself. Those animals live good happy lives then hop skip and a bolt to the head they end up in my freezer. You welcome to do as u wish as long as ur not stopping me from doing as i wish. If u tell someone they cant do something or are evil for doing something then of cause they are not going to be happy its called self determination.
I also don’t like being told what to do. But I can also recognise that its an extremely childish response to say “well you asked me not to, so I’m going to do it more”.
Its not childish according to game theory its the perfect responce a strong incentive not to repeat the activity. Its a u told me to do x cos u dont want x to happen i enjoy doing x im going to do x more now that u told me not to do x its an incentive to not tell people to not do x.
That’s the dumbest application of game theory I’ve ever heard.
This example would only apply if there were a finite amount of animals shared between the two people only and there were no other factors at play other than eating and being hungry. Additionally let’s assume the x is [eat animals]. This then defines the reason why people are telling you to not eat animals (the second x) as simply because “they don’t like it”. It shows you are missing the point entirely.
Don’t pretend your “you don’t like it so I’m going to do more of it” is anything more than “owning the annoying vegans who told me what to do”.
Everything can be boiled down to wants and needs u dont need to not eat animals u want to not eat animals. There are a finite amount of animals and if there was infinite u run into an infinity paradox (its the equivilent to a trolly problem of 1 person per integer on track a and 1 person per even integer on track b doesnt matter where the trolly goes the same number of people die) hence if there was infinite u being vegan does literally nothing. I didnt say its the only reason just that its not childish to implement optimal game theory.
It not just owning the vegans (though it does do that effectivly) its mathematically assigning a cost for u for telling someone what to do.
You realize you only get told what to do by vegans because you hang out where they hang out. If you keep coming here and arguing with them, you probably are here because it serves your own needs somehow…
How is [email protected] in any way associated with vegans. And yes i quite enjoy arguing in general your not special your just one of the many many groups of people i enjoy disagreeing with like u are entertaining ill give u that maybe on the same level as the extreme left or russian shill but at least ur not as dumb as the ccp supporters.
Yea, they had such good lives. Keep telling yourself that
I literally was looking at their lives with my own 2 godamn eyes how could i have made a better judgement than that?
So you would have no problem trading places with them then?
Do i look like a friggin lamb or chicken to u? Would u like to swap places with ur pet dog?
Good point, most people just justify it and don’t really question the morality. But after being told, precisely how and why it is probably immoral, and that animals dont live peaceful lives at the happy factory, what do you do? That’s when coping mechanisms kick in.
I’m not even vegan, im just interested in the psychology of it all. My cope is unga bunga monkey instincs and soy crap is expensive. There is no god, morality is invented by humans, it’s not punishable by law, therefore no consequences for my actions on me. As for everything affected by my actions, keep it at a safe distance i guess? Just like you, don’t rub it in my face because it makes me uncomfortable.
I think if we all seriously started analysing our actions as much as vegans want us to, we’d all hate ourselves for even existing. But im too tired for this wannabe deep bullshit so ima go back to destroying the planed by having a server somewhere emit pollution so i can listen to muh monkey brain happy songs on youtube.
Yeah sometimes i wonder why i argue with these assholes then i come up with a line like “hop skip and a bolt to the head” and my little monkey brains goes hahahaha. I mean im trying not to think abt it too hard but the vegans might be right we arnt that different we kill our fellow humans with almost every action we take so in the end its the vegans who care so much about not harming animals that murder is illegal therefore its their fault there is any difference at all.
Funny how when it comes to veganism that everyone suddenly only eats the flesh pf animals they knew personally and that were cuddled to death. Do you ever order food made with animal products when eating out?
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I’ve noticed this projection almost always, as well. In my experience vegans usually keep it to themselves, yet those who eat meat tend to latch onto veganism and keep going on about it.
I eat meat, no intention to quit at this moment, however I rarely hear about vegans irl. People who don’t like veganism for some reason? I hear them all the time.
Is that how communication works?
Yes and veganism
I use Arch, BTW.
Funny, in my experience it’s the vegans that are the loudest at it.
Clearly confirmation bias.
The amount of meat eaters is multiple times that of vegans. And plenty of them throw in your face how much they love eating meat and sharing recipes. How about the whole Instagram food picture trend?
But because you agree with their philosophy, it doesn’t feel “in your face” to you.
Let me guess based on nothing but ur attitude ur a vegan?
edit: y’all mofos are inhaling tardygrades as I type this. there’s 40 million skin mites that live on your lower lip.
and you love the flavor. and if it wasn’t blindingly obvious I’m fucking with you but yeah mmmm I’m Vegan* (*cept for the mites and spiders) too
aw you don’t eat animals?
that’s a lie.
You consumed 3 spiders last week while sleeping. God knows how many gnats and other bugs.
Stop acting all superior, the only thing you’ve got going for you is the certainty that you’ve eliminated mammals from your diet and are subsisting on bugs.
Damn, you’re right, damn. Guess there’s no real difference between trying to avoid causing suffering and still causing a little, and not trying to avoid it and causing a lot. No difference at all. Damn.
it was a bad joke. not actual commentary. nevermind.
Sorry, it’s just kind of identical to real comments that I’ve seen before about how we can’t avoid running over insects when we drive and crap like that
https://youtu.be/_1uzTr9nKh0
Of course they’re going to tell you that, duuuuh
First i love that u got downvoted for this lol friggin hilariouse.
Second you more right than u think most vegan diets rely on food with farming practices that rape the land so fucking hard. Its actually been calculated that a vegan diet kills more animals than a non vegan one but its insects getting killed by farmers with chemicals (usually nerve agents) but bugs arent cute and fluffy so nobody cares.
Pesticides or GMO are going to be used for agriculture either way (vegan/non vegan diets). regardless, your assertion that vegan diet kills more is specious conceptually and ridiculous in premise - just growing a chicken requires more energy than growing grains, legumes or fungus. If you have evidence post it, otherwise lol nah man.
downvotes were probably for the poor way I made a joke. I don’t take it personally, admit it wasn’t great humor. But you’ll never get me to think Vegans are harming teh ec0sytM!!
All the vegans I know garden or farm themselves, and I get to ride on their experience with my own tomato, cucumber, peppers, and green beans, and I live in the city. We just planted our onion and zuchinni starters but I’ve never done these before so we’ll see. It’s amazing what you can produce in two raised beds.
heres ya evidance: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1025638030686
The lowest estimate for land required per person per year i could find was 1,300 m^2/person/year thats a hell of a lot of land so I commend your efforts in growing your own food it a very rewarding proccess gives a better product and really does increase your satisfaction with it (something about dopamine for doing work and enjoying it or something blar blar science shit). But honestly your not really going to be making much of an impact with your efforts (thats no reason not to enjoy it as a hobby tho).
I aint vegan but growing ones own food whether that be livestock or plants a is rewarding experience.
Warning about tomatoes u want at least like 7 beds and rotate all ur crops each year as tomatoes get fungal problems that can persist in the soil for like 7 years, depending where u are the birds will learn where ya food is so u might need to net it at some point. Beans are piss easy its hard to fuck em up give em good support and ur set. Onions arent too hard just gotta be carefull with them while they still as starter stock endless effort watering seeds i just put a shitonne of seeds in a tray and water it everyday keep it inside in the sun till they start to croud then stick em out also u never have to buy onion stock just let one or ur onions go to seed and tomatoes just try some seeds form some on a paper towel. Also can i suggest corn its great fun (huge waste of space) and tastes infinitly better as the second its picked it starts converting sugars to starch.
Raise yourself some chickens give em a good life feed em well get verifyably good eggs hatch our own chickens then after u realise u cant give away that many roosters the greatest chicken you have ever had awaits chicken that is ethical cared for loved from start to neck twisting end. If ur not comfortable breaking its neck a chicken head sized funnel and a VERY sharp knife does the job the chaos afterwards is just nerves releasing chemicals as long as its quick its completely painless. And hell if u keep ur own chickens they gonna get old and sick and need a quick end opposed to forcing them to suffer on.
I find it funny that a single story locked behind a paywall on springer is TEH EVIDENCE yet such a huge finding isn’t researched and documented elsewhere.
and again, the concept violates the laws of thermodynamics. it’s an energy economy. I can get as much protein and nutrients from veg for a fraction of the energy input compared to livestock.
thanks for the other tips.
Its a peer reviewed article and if u want to read the paper our friends over at [email protected] can give u general advice on how to do such a thing.
I though we where talking about animal life here not thermodynamics grass doesnt get sprayed with nerve agents to feed the cows.
A meat based diet actually needs more farmland than a vegan diet, since it’s less efficient to grow crops to feed animals to feed humans, than it is to grow crops that directly feed the humans. Animals don’t just grow fat on their own, they need to be fed to get there.
Any argument you have against farming crops, will quadruple against meat.
70% of all the crops we grow goes straight to our livestock.
Meaning, for something that takes up 1/3 of your plate, we use more than double the amount of resources of the other 2/3 of the same plate.
And then we haven’t even gave the animals water to drink on top of it.
Not all the food we grow for animals can be consuned for humans nor can the land support human food. Animals server a single perpose they are nutrient condensers they take grass as an input then hop skip and a bolt to the head later we have condensed caloreis into the form of meet.
Only if you neutered them very young. Removal of the testicles reduces the potential for odor and taint associated with male hormones in boars after puberty. If you didn’t do this to your pet pig, you are going to regret it when you cook it.
Source: My mother ran the local 4H club. Kids shouldn’t see live castrations of animals IMHO. Especially since they are mostly done without anesthesia. The squeals still haunt me.
The fact that people are so insulated from the suffering of the animals they eat is part of the problem
More like part of the “solution”, created and upheld intentionally by the meat&dairy industry, incl. happy pictures of cows on an open field in the sunshine. I eat meat, but I would be stupid argue that vegans aren’t right. The suffering and cruelty we are causing animals (and the related pollution to the planet) is unacceptable.
Seeing suffering doesn’t result in more empathy, it results in psychological damage and often in less empathy - losing empathy is a coping mechanism.
I‘m happy to know every farmer I buy meat from, and also how they are kept and treated (way better than these requires). I could even pet or buy any animal I want from them. Further, I’m happy that my county‘s laws are as strict as they are.
I know locally sourced is much better for the environment, but when talking about empathy for the animals, I don’t think getting to pet them before they die really cuts it.
Unless you have very sharp nails.
Well, I’m all for cultured meat products… but Florida’s House Bill 435 wants to snub progress.
if kids shouldnt see how their food is made then maybe they shouldnt be eating it
Your terms are acceptable. I’ve taught my kids a lot about anatomy from butchering.
Sounds fair. My parents made me look after some of our chickens from hatching then a couple months later there i was plucking the poor bastard. Gotta say it took a tremendouse amount of effort to raise and prepare that bird but my god did it tast so much better knowing all the love and effort that went into that animal.
Maybe no one should see it?
There’s pretty widely documented evidence that slaughterhouse work is also harmful to mental health.
(Link is to sagepub)
Holy crap, this got real very fast…
So I agree it probably sucks for children to see it, but it sucks that the industry exists. Maybe we should all suffer through seeing where meat comes from.
(Just to be clear, I’m an occasional meat eater. I’ve seen all of this stuff, and after considering the this of meat and also the carbon effect, I have reduced my meat intake, but I’m not at zero yet. Hopefully some day. I just wanted to be clear I’m somewhat of a hypocrite so I’m not dishonest.)
…and now they haunt me. Damn my over vivid imagination.
Dont they just need about a year or so of being castrated for said oder to not effect the meat?
Not without reason, but my daughter has been helping me with lambing since she was like 5 years old. Part of that is putting castrator bands on and docking tails, it hasn’t messed her up but just been a good lesson in responsibility and handling animals respectfully.
However lambs just bleat a couple times and lay down in the corner. Showing non-farm kids a bunch of squealing piglets out of nowhere is definitely going to traumatize them.
By the way a non-neutered boar sounds like a terrifying pet to me! I would hope any pet pigs are castrated for safety reasons alone.
I don’t understand why the hell you’re being downvoted.
Because on lemmy you can’t have a reasonable discussion about meat eating without being brigaded by vegans that add little to the conversation besides meat cruel and meat pollution.
Mate here brought up a good example. I myself raise chickens for egg production (i also engage in less sustainable/ humane meat eating to be frank). Would be happy to have an intelligent conversation with someone besides the usual 3-4 arguments like ‘battery chickens’ which don’t apply to my chooks are happy, have plenty of space, toys, food and protection.
Point in case. Downvoted without saying a word.
Not sure why downvoted… Main reason to have a pet pig is to grow it to eat it.
People eat their pet pigs? Wtf? Why would you eat your friend?
Why wouldn’t you eat food?
Its not mutually exclusive, these animals are relient on us to give them a good and happy life. From thousands of years of coevolution they have found an evolutinary niche and that niche is humman support class ie food. If we did not eat them and use them to build the very society we stand in today they would not exist. We love them we care for them we give them good lives then we eat them.
Much like children
Ive never met a pig raised to supercede its owner let alone a pig going to work and contributing to society.
True. Which is why we’re eating the mentally disabled and sick.
Are you implying that the mentally disabled dont contribute to society i believe a little angry Austrian man had that same idea. And eating meat of a sick animal sounds quite unhygienic to me.
New proposal: if we start eating all of the people who eat animals starting with those who eat the most meat, we will reduce the planet’s meat consumption quite rapidly.
My dog doesn’t go to work or contribute to society. But i don’t eat him?
Your reasons make no sense.
There are many studies that suggest having pet can increase health both physical and mental and is correlatory to longer life expectancy. Your dog is contributing to society through your actions so dont let em down.
I’m sorry but i do have to ask. Are you a bit daft? It’s literally called a PET pig. You can love an animal no matter what kind of animal.
Lemmy works in mysterious ways, and there’s plenty of offended {vegans, crossfitters, communists, fascists, whatever} to downvote or brigade. Which is even more useless than on Reddit, but everyone needs a hobby.
I guess lemmy must be full of sticklers for etiquette, and It’s rude to play with your food.