My parents asked when I planned on having kids, and I answered something along the lines of “I love my unborn children FAR too much to consider bringing them into this hell-hole.”
…that was maybe 5 years ago? They haven’t TOUCHED that topic since, lol.
I said the same thing to my parents and they said “Well if you enjoy life, so will your children!” They were really stumped when I told them I wouldn’t exactly say I “enjoy” life.
That’s weird because the world is in better shape than it was when I grew up. You have drills for what to do in active shooter situations. I had drills for what to do in case of a nuclear war. I don’t think it’s as much to do with how bad the world is vs how bad the economy is for young people… and I"m not even sure if it’s statistically worse. Certainly housing is worse. Are there any other metrics that are really worse? (This is an honest question, I"m not looking for a generational fight. None of us have any control over when we were born.) Wealth inequality has gotten worse, but it was pretty bad before too.
I guess what I"m really arguing is that I think there is too much negativity and pessimism in our society especially amongst the young. Some things do suck. But finding someone who you love and then deciding to start a family with them and creating a small pocket of a better world seems 100% worth it to me.
Over having nuclear war hanging over your head enough you need drills for it? Yes, it is an improvement. Very much so.
While shooters are way too much of a problem that we’re not addressing, they’re still actually pretty rare. Most people will be never be affected. I’m not trying to stick my head in the sand here or minimize the issue, just add the perspective that sometimes “way too often” is still rare. We need to be outraged, we need to do something, but this is not as likely for most of us as the internet might make you believe
Nuclear war was only a threat for Americans because they were starting the war. They still have this threat they just ignore it. The US is in the middle of trying to start wars with China
Economy is a huge one. If minimum wage kept pace with cost of living, it’d be something like $30 per hour today. That’s one of the hardest points to drive to older folks, cuz they see shit like pushes for $15 and think it’s ridiculous cuz theirs was only $5 and think we’re asking for three times more than what they earned; and simultaneously that the difference is only a factor of three. The cost of everything has left our earning potential in the dust, so we’re having to cut things like health insurance just to keep a roof over our head. Boomers had it WAY easy financially, but so many of them feel like they have a super human work ethic cuz they paid for college by working a summer… that shit doesn’t work anymore.
Climate is another hard hitter. We’re actively watching a mass extinction event kick off, and we know what needs to happen to fix it, but the people with the power to do anything about it don’t give a fuck, so the rest of us get to just watch helplessly as our planet dies. This situation is going to be worse and worse for every incoming generation, so shouldering our potential kids with that burden would be one of the cruelest things we’re capable of.
Then there’s culture. You’d think we’d have at least made some progress here, but no. The Nazis are back, white supremacism is rampant, and christofascism is a rapidly growing cancer that our political and justice systems don’t seem able or willing to address. All it takes is a meme on Facebook for WAY too many parents to abandon their children’s safety by denying them vaccines. Women are being denied healthcare and imprisoned for things like a miscarriage.
…and that’s today. Everything I mentioned is in a nose dive, so how much worse is it going to be in 5? 10? 50 years?
Who in their right mind would look at the dumpster fire we live in and think “Yup! This is a suitable environment to raise a kid!”? I know a lot of people just want their ‘bundle of joy’ but that’s completely ignoring the kid’s perspective - damning them to all ^that is selfish to a borderline evil extent.
Past generations wondered “Wow, I wonder what the future will look like?”, but nowadays we only think “The world is fucked and it’s only getting worse.”
I know doom thinking is bad and all that, but there is just so little reason to become excited about what’s to come
Let me suggest you find different corners of the internet to lurk in. I can’t imagine going back to a time before the internet, but one of the things it’s very good at is spreading outrage, bad news, problem after problem. If it’s getting overwhelming, maybe it would help to change your view. I’m not trying to sell you a picture of everything being perfect, just that there have always been big problems and the difference today is hearing them non-stop. Make it stop. Get a more balanced life picture.
That’s one of the hardest points to drive to older folks, cuz they see shit like pushes for $15 and think it’s ridiculous.
You might talk about income inequality here. A low minimum wage is not as much of a concern if you think those are all part time jobs for teenagers. I think a lot of people don’t really understand that with the shrinking middle class, there are way too many adults actually stuck in jobs close to minimum wage
I started replying in detail, but just let me suggest that you look around more. It’s always the bad news that makes headlines, outrage over disasters, but that’s not the full story. Every fear you expressed here also has measurable improvement, even if it doesn’t make headlines as often. Everything is getting better in many ways. We’re doing our usual muddling from one crisis to another, but there’s no reason to believe we’re finally doing a Thelma and Louise
Your comment does a pretty good job of illustrating the main reasons: further wealth inequality, difficult housing market, and a crazier society that’s becoming more accepting of school shootings/shootings in general…not to mention climate change, more wars, and batshit politics becoming the norm globally. How bout that response to covid? If anything had ever disgusted me about this country it’s how brazenly people were willing to risk other people’s lives because they couldn’t be bothered to even attempt to be safe or consider others safety. As if i didn’t have enough reasons not to have kids before… it seems almost cruel to bring them into today’s world.
For sure, turning a blind eye to all that and escaping into a relationship and starting a family sounds great. You need a good job to do that…or you and your partner may both need good jobs to do that. Who watches the kids then? How much time will you actually get to spend with them? Are you going to saddle your parents or in-laws with the responsibility of raising them? Day care? What point is there in having children if you’re spending most of your time away from them? Disregard all that of course, if you’re rich ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just don’t think I’m ready to spend all of my waking hours endlessly trying to produce enough income to maintain all the expenses that come with a family, while still putting aside money for the kids to go to college and a retirement fund to boot.
It would be nice to have a family, i just don’t think it’s practical anymore. I don’t believe it’s the simple choice you make it out to be (at least that’s how i interpreted the last sentence of your comment)
Climate change and the loss of biodiversity is going to be catastrophic. The world is getting better by many metrics but that’s worthless if we can’t solve climate change.
Ten years ago, all too many people wouldn’t believe climate change was happening, even in the face of all the facts, and we were doing almost nothing about it. We were driving full speed down Fury Road.
Now, people no longer try to argue it’s not happening. Globally, renewables are the highest growth power generation. Electric vehicles are no longer a niche, but the fastest growth area of personal vehicles. In the US, we’re laggards in adopting but it is already making a measurable difference. We’re squinting ahead at Fury Road, thinking we might not want to go there.
While we may be zooming past our target of 1.5°C warming, at least we have our foot off the gas and are slowing. However , remember the climate is not binary, most of the affects just get worse as we cause more warming and there is no magic number we’re good at vs not good at.tipping points may be a different story, and they become more likely as things get worse, but even that doesn’t mean the end of civilization
Biodiversity is a tough one, though. Barely recognized, the impact is too abstract for most people to understand, and we don’t even have a specific goal or target to try for. We need people to be working on that next, but solving climate change is going to be step one
I used to scoff at people being pessimistic that society is getting worse. But all the material security and safety is mitigated as climate change is getting worse and scientists are not optimistic about the prospects. And the phenomenon is inducing loss of biodiversity and food and migration which causes social tensions. I agree that the current society is much better off than the previous generations but I’m afraid we can’t say the same about the future ones.
My parents asked when I planned on having kids, and I answered something along the lines of “I love my unborn children FAR too much to consider bringing them into this hell-hole.”
…that was maybe 5 years ago? They haven’t TOUCHED that topic since, lol.
I said the same thing to my parents and they said “Well if you enjoy life, so will your children!” They were really stumped when I told them I wouldn’t exactly say I “enjoy” life.
Man now I want these clowns to ban jacking off so I can make that joke. No wait…
That’s weird because the world is in better shape than it was when I grew up. You have drills for what to do in active shooter situations. I had drills for what to do in case of a nuclear war. I don’t think it’s as much to do with how bad the world is vs how bad the economy is for young people… and I"m not even sure if it’s statistically worse. Certainly housing is worse. Are there any other metrics that are really worse? (This is an honest question, I"m not looking for a generational fight. None of us have any control over when we were born.) Wealth inequality has gotten worse, but it was pretty bad before too.
I guess what I"m really arguing is that I think there is too much negativity and pessimism in our society especially amongst the young. Some things do suck. But finding someone who you love and then deciding to start a family with them and creating a small pocket of a better world seems 100% worth it to me.
Having active shooters so often you need drills for it isn’t an improvement
And we still have nuclear Armageddon to worry about, it just got buried under the pile of things to worry about.
Over having nuclear war hanging over your head enough you need drills for it? Yes, it is an improvement. Very much so.
While shooters are way too much of a problem that we’re not addressing, they’re still actually pretty rare. Most people will be never be affected. I’m not trying to stick my head in the sand here or minimize the issue, just add the perspective that sometimes “way too often” is still rare. We need to be outraged, we need to do something, but this is not as likely for most of us as the internet might make you believe
Nuclear war was only a threat for Americans because they were starting the war. They still have this threat they just ignore it. The US is in the middle of trying to start wars with China
Economy is a huge one. If minimum wage kept pace with cost of living, it’d be something like $30 per hour today. That’s one of the hardest points to drive to older folks, cuz they see shit like pushes for $15 and think it’s ridiculous cuz theirs was only $5 and think we’re asking for three times more than what they earned; and simultaneously that the difference is only a factor of three. The cost of everything has left our earning potential in the dust, so we’re having to cut things like health insurance just to keep a roof over our head. Boomers had it WAY easy financially, but so many of them feel like they have a super human work ethic cuz they paid for college by working a summer… that shit doesn’t work anymore.
Climate is another hard hitter. We’re actively watching a mass extinction event kick off, and we know what needs to happen to fix it, but the people with the power to do anything about it don’t give a fuck, so the rest of us get to just watch helplessly as our planet dies. This situation is going to be worse and worse for every incoming generation, so shouldering our potential kids with that burden would be one of the cruelest things we’re capable of.
Then there’s culture. You’d think we’d have at least made some progress here, but no. The Nazis are back, white supremacism is rampant, and christofascism is a rapidly growing cancer that our political and justice systems don’t seem able or willing to address. All it takes is a meme on Facebook for WAY too many parents to abandon their children’s safety by denying them vaccines. Women are being denied healthcare and imprisoned for things like a miscarriage.
…and that’s today. Everything I mentioned is in a nose dive, so how much worse is it going to be in 5? 10? 50 years?
Who in their right mind would look at the dumpster fire we live in and think “Yup! This is a suitable environment to raise a kid!”? I know a lot of people just want their ‘bundle of joy’ but that’s completely ignoring the kid’s perspective - damning them to all ^that is selfish to a borderline evil extent.
We’re fucked, but our kids are WAY more fucked.
Past generations wondered “Wow, I wonder what the future will look like?”, but nowadays we only think “The world is fucked and it’s only getting worse.”
I know doom thinking is bad and all that, but there is just so little reason to become excited about what’s to come
Let me suggest you find different corners of the internet to lurk in. I can’t imagine going back to a time before the internet, but one of the things it’s very good at is spreading outrage, bad news, problem after problem. If it’s getting overwhelming, maybe it would help to change your view. I’m not trying to sell you a picture of everything being perfect, just that there have always been big problems and the difference today is hearing them non-stop. Make it stop. Get a more balanced life picture.
You might talk about income inequality here. A low minimum wage is not as much of a concern if you think those are all part time jobs for teenagers. I think a lot of people don’t really understand that with the shrinking middle class, there are way too many adults actually stuck in jobs close to minimum wage
I started replying in detail, but just let me suggest that you look around more. It’s always the bad news that makes headlines, outrage over disasters, but that’s not the full story. Every fear you expressed here also has measurable improvement, even if it doesn’t make headlines as often. Everything is getting better in many ways. We’re doing our usual muddling from one crisis to another, but there’s no reason to believe we’re finally doing a Thelma and Louise
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Your comment does a pretty good job of illustrating the main reasons: further wealth inequality, difficult housing market, and a crazier society that’s becoming more accepting of school shootings/shootings in general…not to mention climate change, more wars, and batshit politics becoming the norm globally. How bout that response to covid? If anything had ever disgusted me about this country it’s how brazenly people were willing to risk other people’s lives because they couldn’t be bothered to even attempt to be safe or consider others safety. As if i didn’t have enough reasons not to have kids before… it seems almost cruel to bring them into today’s world.
For sure, turning a blind eye to all that and escaping into a relationship and starting a family sounds great. You need a good job to do that…or you and your partner may both need good jobs to do that. Who watches the kids then? How much time will you actually get to spend with them? Are you going to saddle your parents or in-laws with the responsibility of raising them? Day care? What point is there in having children if you’re spending most of your time away from them? Disregard all that of course, if you’re rich ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just don’t think I’m ready to spend all of my waking hours endlessly trying to produce enough income to maintain all the expenses that come with a family, while still putting aside money for the kids to go to college and a retirement fund to boot.
It would be nice to have a family, i just don’t think it’s practical anymore. I don’t believe it’s the simple choice you make it out to be (at least that’s how i interpreted the last sentence of your comment)
Climate change and the loss of biodiversity is going to be catastrophic. The world is getting better by many metrics but that’s worthless if we can’t solve climate change.
Ten years ago, all too many people wouldn’t believe climate change was happening, even in the face of all the facts, and we were doing almost nothing about it. We were driving full speed down Fury Road.
Now, people no longer try to argue it’s not happening. Globally, renewables are the highest growth power generation. Electric vehicles are no longer a niche, but the fastest growth area of personal vehicles. In the US, we’re laggards in adopting but it is already making a measurable difference. We’re squinting ahead at Fury Road, thinking we might not want to go there.
While we may be zooming past our target of 1.5°C warming, at least we have our foot off the gas and are slowing. However , remember the climate is not binary, most of the affects just get worse as we cause more warming and there is no magic number we’re good at vs not good at.tipping points may be a different story, and they become more likely as things get worse, but even that doesn’t mean the end of civilization
Biodiversity is a tough one, though. Barely recognized, the impact is too abstract for most people to understand, and we don’t even have a specific goal or target to try for. We need people to be working on that next, but solving climate change is going to be step one
Also the nuclear war never happened. Shooters on the other hand…
You wanna compare how many children died from nuclear war vs how many children died from school shootings in your lifetime?
I used to scoff at people being pessimistic that society is getting worse. But all the material security and safety is mitigated as climate change is getting worse and scientists are not optimistic about the prospects. And the phenomenon is inducing loss of biodiversity and food and migration which causes social tensions. I agree that the current society is much better off than the previous generations but I’m afraid we can’t say the same about the future ones.