How do you feel about those convicted for selling marijuana or just having marijuana in enough of a quantity that the police decided they were selling?
I think the issue in this thread is that when you think of slavery, the only thing that comes to your mind is the worst of chattel slavery, which was worse than our current prison system. There are many other forms of slavery throughout history some were “better” than our current prison system, many were worse.
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Do you really think it’s all people that “deserve” it? Also, only 31% of the prison population is white. Do you think that’s a coincidence? Are POC that much more likely to commit crimes worthy of prison time? Or is the system maybe prejudiced in who it targets? None of this is a “different topic”. It’s all interconnected.
It’s not really even relevant. El Salvador has a smaller population than New York City (6M vs 8M) and statistics don’t really scale like that when you’re comparing a country of 6 million to a country of 333 million. The US has 4.2% of the world population and 20% of the world incarcerated population. We have more than 3 times more people in prison than the total population of El Salvador.
You’re acting like you’re intellectually superior here, but dismissing someone’s overall point because one thing they said wasn’t exactly correct is lazy and obvious, and your commitment to defending the exploitation of the unjustly incarcerated is gross.
Most people in prison are there for crimes of poverty, or for “crimes” that rich people are not punished for. So you’re punishing people for their circumstances, not their actions. https://qz.com/1233966/new-data-clearly-illustrate-the-poverty-to-prison-pipeline Do you think white collar criminals are out working in regulation-free hard labor lines? No, no they are not.
Maybe focus on not imprisoning people that do not need to be imprisoned rather than extracting cash and labor from people who have basically been kidnapped for profit.
But that work generally doesn’t get payed back to society, it goes towards enriching the for-profit prison owners, and enriching the businesses that use slave prisoner labor.
Non-violent offenses shouldn’t result in forced labor within a for-profit prison. That’s neo-slavery, with the prison owners motivated to change the laws to get as many people imprisoned as possible.
That’s why we have such a high prison rate, and that’s why such a disproportionate amount of prisoners are POC.
Slaves didn’t have a choice. Felons did.
Felons didn’t perpetuate the prison industrial complex. They didn’t perpetuate the laws that made the dumbest non-violent crimes imprisonment level offenses. The people who enrich themselves off of prison labor did.
Okay, so you are for forced labor on the hardened violent criminals, but lenient (no work) for the non-violent?
No. Forced labor should be abolished. I was merely using the fact that the majority of “felons who made their choices”, are people who have no place being there in the first place. The prison industrial complex lobbied the legislatures to make laws which increase the prison population as much as possible. The end result being many non-violent “criminal” offenses land you in jail and enslaved.
What should they all do in their free time?
Rehabilitation, learning trades, work, reading, whatever, it doesn’t matter. But none of it should be forced.
If you are talking about justice reform, that’s a different topic and I completely agree with you.
All of this is justice reform. You can’t have justice reform without acknowledging that slavery is wrong.
One problem (there are many) with not caring about the rights of criminals is that “criminal” is not an immovable line. Governments can, have, and do throw away the rights of criminals using these kinds of arguments, and then re-categorize groups of people they don’t like as criminals.
Are we talking about the ethical considerations regarding prison work or are we talking about specific issues regarding reintegrating criminals back into society?
Housing inmates also costs about $115 a day on average. Or around $42,672 of tax payer money. Might as well work to pay back society.
Slaves didn’t have a choice. Felons did.
How do you feel about those convicted for selling marijuana or just having marijuana in enough of a quantity that the police decided they were selling?
Completely different topic. My brother was a victim of this so I don’t feel very fondly about it. Like I said though, completely different topic.
How is it a completely different topic? Do you think the choice to smoke or carry marijuana justifies being imprisoned and enslaved?
False dilemma. It would be like me saying “do you think pedophiles and mass murderers shouldn’t have to pay back their debt to society?”
As far as marijuana decriminalization goes - I’m all for it. And I don’t even smoke.
I think the issue in this thread is that when you think of slavery, the only thing that comes to your mind is the worst of chattel slavery, which was worse than our current prison system. There are many other forms of slavery throughout history some were “better” than our current prison system, many were worse.
Curious if people in this sub would rather be in an American, Russian, or Chinese prison system.
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Do you really think it’s all people that “deserve” it? Also, only 31% of the prison population is white. Do you think that’s a coincidence? Are POC that much more likely to commit crimes worthy of prison time? Or is the system maybe prejudiced in who it targets? None of this is a “different topic”. It’s all interconnected.
El Salvador has the highest incarceration rate in the world and it’s not really even close.
It’s not really even relevant. El Salvador has a smaller population than New York City (6M vs 8M) and statistics don’t really scale like that when you’re comparing a country of 6 million to a country of 333 million. The US has 4.2% of the world population and 20% of the world incarcerated population. We have more than 3 times more people in prison than the total population of El Salvador.
Ok? And?
You want me to respond to you comment that isn’t factual? I did.
You’re acting like you’re intellectually superior here, but dismissing someone’s overall point because one thing they said wasn’t exactly correct is lazy and obvious, and your commitment to defending the exploitation of the unjustly incarcerated is gross.
Most people in prison are there for crimes of poverty, or for “crimes” that rich people are not punished for. So you’re punishing people for their circumstances, not their actions. https://qz.com/1233966/new-data-clearly-illustrate-the-poverty-to-prison-pipeline Do you think white collar criminals are out working in regulation-free hard labor lines? No, no they are not.
You know prisoners are charged for every day of their incarceration, right…? If they work a 12 hour day and make 25cents per hour, that’s $3 per day, but they owe $150+ per day for their housing and food expenses, they are being punished beyond their stay as they will be in debt and have garnished wages for life. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/paying-your-time-how-charging-inmates-fees-behind-bars-may-violate? , https://apnews.com/article/crime-prisons-lawsuits-connecticut-074a8f643766e155df58d2c8fbc7214c
Maybe focus on not imprisoning people that do not need to be imprisoned rather than extracting cash and labor from people who have basically been kidnapped for profit.
You are completely off topic but I admire your passion for the subject.
But that work generally doesn’t get payed back to society, it goes towards enriching the for-profit prison owners, and enriching the businesses that use
slaveprisoner labor.Overall, nearly three-fourths (72.1%) of federal prisoners are serving time for a non-violent offense and have no history of violence.
Non-violent offenses shouldn’t result in forced labor within a for-profit prison. That’s neo-slavery, with the prison owners motivated to change the laws to get as many people imprisoned as possible.
That’s why we have such a high prison rate, and that’s why such a disproportionate amount of prisoners are POC.
Felons didn’t perpetuate the prison industrial complex. They didn’t perpetuate the laws that made the dumbest non-violent crimes imprisonment level offenses. The people who enrich themselves off of prison labor did.
Okay, so you are for forced labor on the hardened violent criminals, but lenient (no work) for the non-violent?
What should they all do in their free time?
If you are talking about justice reform, that’s a different topic and I completely agree with you.
No. Forced labor should be abolished. I was merely using the fact that the majority of “felons who made their choices”, are people who have no place being there in the first place. The prison industrial complex lobbied the legislatures to make laws which increase the prison population as much as possible. The end result being many non-violent “criminal” offenses land you in jail and enslaved.
Rehabilitation, learning trades, work, reading, whatever, it doesn’t matter. But none of it should be forced.
All of this is justice reform. You can’t have justice reform without acknowledging that slavery is wrong.
c/shitUSApesSay
Might as well make it like similar to a plantation and make sure they make the minimum then, huh?
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One problem (there are many) with not caring about the rights of criminals is that “criminal” is not an immovable line. Governments can, have, and do throw away the rights of criminals using these kinds of arguments, and then re-categorize groups of people they don’t like as criminals.
Are we talking about the ethical considerations regarding prison work or are we talking about specific issues regarding reintegrating criminals back into society?
Good question, I’m not sure what your stance is. You seem to be saying two different things.
Are those both representations of your beliefs? I don’t want to strawman you.
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Under threat of solitary confinement (brain damage)?