The PJ trilogy still holds up today.
That’s a pretty high bar
Lightning in a bottle, very unlikely to happen a second time. They tried a few times and failed miserably. But you never know.
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I was trying to describe to my MIL (who hasn’t seen the Hobbit movies) how they were bad. I ended up with
Do you remember the barrel scene in the Hobbit? How would you describe it?
“It’s kind of where Bilbo really felt his confidence, where he tried the ring for the first time and rescued the dwarves, and they snuck out down the river to the city”
Great great, and do you remember the battalion of orcs trying to kill them while they went downstream with Legolas and Tauriel doing sweet kick flips over them, while Bombur bounced around jokingly killing a dozen of them, and then Fili having a moment of weakness for his elf princess love while he opened the gate and then he gets shot with a poisoned arrow?
…no
Well there you go.
They took one of the most endearing moments of the book and made it a joke. No, they cannot recreate the Lord of the Rings. Even if you don’t like PJ’s version, there’s just no way modern Hollywood can do to improve on it.
It’s not “modern” Hollywood. Hollywood has been pretty consistently trash over the decades, most adaptations in the '90s were shit as well.
Of course no-one’s going to beat PJ at LOTR. Because no good creative is going to be interested in the challenge when PJ already did the thing perfectly so only soulless corpo-ghouls think a remake is a good idea.
But there are still flukes like LOTR from time to time when the moons align and funding goes to actually talented creators. Two years ago we got Dune, this summer we got Barbie.
I wouldn’t put either of those in quite the same category as LOTR but I do agree that good stuff is still being made here and there, I think people just like to complain and also only think about the best bits of the past, while LOTR came out a million shitty movies also did you just don’t remember them.
Dune is arguable. And PJ’s LOTR is arguable too. Barbie I haven’t seen.
I agree that it’s unlikely that we’ll ever get a better adaptation. But to say that PJ’s adaptions were perfect is a bit insulting to the books. They weren’t great adaptions. Good movies on their own, but PJ was very opinionated and they weren’t super faithful.
Great adaptations are never super faithful. Adapting means changing stuff around to make it work on a new medium.
I do agree the PJ movies have some issues, but for other reasons.
while people will still rewatch LOTR in decades.
Ah, I prefer “reread”. LOTR movies too have quite a lot of downsides. Like ignoring the whole of the Old Forest. And they lack the lore feeling which I can’t describe easily.
I like doing a reread/rewatch. Read the hook then watch it come to life. Honestly going back after all these years I find it like the movies more than when they released even. At the time I was young and wanted them to be more like the books, but as an adult I can understand and even agree with a lot of the changes. For instance, aragon is pretty different in that he’s given more of an arc in the films, and I like that. But of course there’s a thousand things I wish they had time to flesh out more. If they are going to do a remake I wish they’d do a series that allow them to slow down and really get into a lot of that. That’s really the only way I can see them even possibly living up to the Jackson films
At the time I was young and wanted them to be more like the books, but as an adult I can understand and even agree with a lot of the changes.
This sentence seems a bit manipulative, as if taking that point of view made one “more adult”. I’d understand resistance to movies themselves waning, as a separate thing of art of their own, being a sign of that.
is pretty different in that he’s given more of an arc in the films
Really?
Aragorn and elves, Aragorn and Gandalf, Aragorn and Arwen, Aragorn and the Rangers, Aragorn and Sauron even, Aragorn and Denethor, Aragorn and Boromir, Aragorn and Frodo, Aragorn and Sam, Aragorn and travel, even Aragorn and Gollum, Aragorn and Gimli, Aragorn and Eomer …
Wouldn’t seem so for me.
Sorry for the Reddit-ish tone.
If they are going to do a remake I wish they’d do a series that allow them to slow down and really get into a lot of that.
At this point I’d just want to live till the IP expires and see fans try.
I can only speak for myself. I think personally I have a better perspective on things now than when I was 14, but I guess I could be wrong.
I think you’ve misinterpreted what I mean by arc. I guess I meant the character undergoes more personal growth in the films. In the books aragon knows what he’s about from day one. He is stoic af. And I get why he’s written that way and why some would prefer that. In the films he’s much more unsure about himself and over the course of the trilogy you see him kind of grow into being the king so that by the time he takes the crown it feels like you saw the internal journey that got him there. In the books of course we know that this period is what, like, a couple years of his very long life so that would feel more out of place.
Anyway, those kinds of changes bothered me as a teenager, but looking back at them now I feel differently. That’s not to say I like all the choices Jackson made, but I’ve come around on some, understand others better, and have seen enough other material jump from book to film to be super grateful for the effort that whole team put in to try and do these films right.
I guess I meant the character undergoes more personal growth in the films. In the books aragon knows what he’s about from day one.
Not entirely, if you remember Dunharrow and the Palantir. And then his other transformations, in Rivendell, in Lorien, in Rohan, and after the coronation, and more. Other than those, where would a 70 years old man grow?
In the films he’s much more unsure about himself and over the course of the trilogy you see him kind of grow into being the king so that by the time he takes the crown it feels like you saw the internal journey that got him there.
Well, in the books it was a 50 years long journey.
In the books of course we know that this period is what, like, a couple years of his very long life so that would feel more out of place.
Yes, I think we understand each other.
those kinds of changes bothered me as a teenager,
For me personally they felt strange because, ahem, Aragorn seemed simply unfit for his role. A person which wouldn’t end up on that track.
Just don’t watch it.
You don’t have to watch every damn thing involving your fandom. It’s pure capitalistic greed at this point.
Let a franchise fucking die already.
Demand better movies and don’t engage with film as product. Find passionate storytellers and not greedy corporate executives looking to milk every last drop of nostalgia for profits.
I listened to a podcast (99 Percent Invisible I think) and it said a big reason why the 90s were so great for movies were the creation of cinaplexes, big movie theaters with tons of screens.
More screens meant that new or different ideas that wouldn’t normally make it to the big screen (Forrest Gump, Fight Club, The Matrix etc) were given a chance, and found an audience.
Now everything is played safe. Hollywood doesn’t want new franchises because they are deemed too risky, and the names we know and love are running out of ideas and passion and risk ruining the whole thing.
Interesting perspective and makes me think that’s why the 18+ screen mega theatre is dying today. Not enough of those kinds of films to keep that many screens going and draw people in.
Exactly. Quit feeding them
Still haven’t watched rings of power, probably not now that I cancelled Prime after the ad fiasco.
Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War were fun - but very non canon.
Anyone who bought Gollum at all should take what you’re saying to heart. Zero true fans of the Middle Earth world would put any money down for that game. If anyone bought it because they were a fan they deserved to lose their money, zero of the marketing material looked like it was going to be a quality product or decent addition to the story.
Rings of Power was enjoyable to watch, I treated it as billion-dollar fanfic and didn’t worry that everything was out of place
I’ll have to check it out some time, we’ll see. It’s on prime though so…
but yeah, a remake is a real bad idea
And if you watched it and don’t like it, don’t spend all your time shitting on the people that did
New “Lord of the Rings” movies scheduled to be cancelled after completion by David Zazlav for a tax break
Would give multiple stars to this comment if I could.
Is it just me, or had anyone else lost all hope for good Lotr shows after Rings of Power? I saw lots of potential squandered by poor writing, and I fear more Lotr content is just going to be more content, not good stories.
Christopher Tolkien was blocking a lot of things. Even the Jackson films sneaked by and wouldn’t have been made of he could have stopped it.
He’s dead now, and the new heirs to the rights like money. They also have about 20 years before the copyright expires. Which isn’t that long; that’s about as much time between now and the Jackson films. To keep ahead of the clock, they’re greenlighting a lot of garbage and risk running their franchise into the ground.
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It wasn’t obvious it would be bad before release, much of the compliants I saw were mostly unfair criticism made in bad-faith.
It wasn’t exactly bad, it just wasn’t good like it could have been.
were mostly unfair criticism made in bad-faith.
Wrong color criticism, one can phrase it. Both in what you imply by “bad faith” and in the reason you do that, as it comes from a different pole of the society.
Only many of them were not that kind of complaints, so you only have your human social instincts to blame (and those who abuse those - it’s similar to being scammed).
It’s a bit like Disney played the “racist fans” card against those who didn’t like their Star Wars movies. So even those people who said and say they loved them have mostly lost interest to Star Wars in that very period.
It became socially dirty to criticize those movies, but the amount of the “approving” fans who still left the fandom shows the real reception.
Yep. Money grab.
I lost all hope when they greenlit the license to be used for…Golum.
Nasty capitalistses…
So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us
And since this is on Lemmy… the answer is pirate it when it comes out then bitch about how bad it is. Then turn it into Linux memes and communism.
The copyright expires in 2044. The Perter Jackson series came out 2001-2003. From a studio point it is approaching the now or never time. They need to make one within the next few years to be able to make a 3rd one just before the end of copyright. From a studio buisness perspective this makes sense and is kind of a no-brainer.
So I tried to find more info on it and it seems like they are not remaking the trilogy. Multiple movies set in various time periods before the Hobbit and LotR are currently written. That’s not really great but it is way better than a remake IMHO.
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Don’t worry, neighbor. Humanity’s about done here and allll that shit will stop.
The new Trek series have been, with one exception, great. Oh, do you mean the fuck terrible movies? Yeah.
what? Have you seen other versions of discovery or picard than I did? only current good StartTrek show is the Orwell…
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Hard no, boss.
Completely agree. Strange new worlds and lower decks are absolutely amazing trek shows, Picard season 3 was pretty good even though I didn’t care much for the first 2 seasons and even though discovery is typically the least liked of new trek, it’ll always have a special place in my heart since that show is what made me a trek fan in the first place.
I’ve since watched ALL trek content except for most of TOS and TAS, it’s just to old for me. I’ve watched the most highly recommended episodes but I just can’t get into that show and I’ve tried multiple times.
As a Star Wars fan I say this shit has gotten so egregious that for most intents and purposes it has already stopped.
Ever since the extended universe was declared non-canon, Star Wars died for me.
When that happened we started regretting to them as fan fiction, it made my friend very angry.
Eh, somewhat disagree. I think some series have big potentials for spinoffs or side stories. The Disney Star Wars movies were terrible, agreed, but some of the shows are fantastic.
Marvel (and DC for that matter) is finicky. Comic books are, by their nature, extremely continuous, so there will always be more content to adapt. Whether or not it’s good or worth adapting is dependent on both the comic series and the producers’ capabilities, but that’s another issue.
I mean, I’ll give an example. The Last Airbender, fantastic show. It could have ended there and we’d all be satisfied. But The Legend of Korra, while not as great as TLA, was still (imo) very good. But the Last Airbender movie? Yeah, we all know it sucked hard.
I wouldn’t say writers should never ever look to make spinoffs or side stories to existing content, but obviously it should be good, and it’s demonstrably possible. Star Wars gave us The Clone Wars, Breaking Bad gave us Better Call Saul, and I mean on a somewhat relevant note, LotR gave us Shadow of Mordor, which I really liked. New, original content [edit: as a sequel to already existing content] can be good… but obviously, not always.
Gondor has no remake. Gondor needs no remake.
Alas, it is not for Gondor to decide what the copyright holders do with them.
i love how nobody sees this as good news
takes one glance at Amazon
This is an article from February 2023 about War of the Rohirrim and similar projects, not a remake of the 2001 trilogy.
In a dream scenario where they can get the right people to do it, I would vastly prefer a TV series. Even with the extended editions, there’s a ton of material in the books we didn’t get to see. Things like the whole sequence with the elves early in the books being turned into “hey look there’s some elves”, no Tom Bombadil, the journey from Rivendel to Moria. And that’s just the first book.
I think most would agree the world building is one of the best aspects of the books and there just isn’t time for that in a feature film.
As some kind of “filler” in a TV series is actually the only way I can see the Tom Bombadil content working on the screen. It’s just too specific to work in any other way IMO, even though I would like to see something. (Especially with Jack Black as Tom Bombadil, can you imagine him ring-a-ding dillowing xD)
I had never actually fan casted anyone as Tom Bombadil, but now I will forever have Jack Black in my head.
Although, knowing Hollywood, it’d be Chris Pratt.
It was the same for me, I didn’t spend time thinking about who could play Tom, but when I saw this painting, I knew Jack would be perfect. He would be so naturally comfortable in that role, I imagine.
Idk if you watched the last of us, but like that Bill episode, which is mostly disconnected from the greater narrative, didn’t feel out of place in the series to me. That’s what I’m getting at. I want to see all of it at a slower pace.
Yes! That’s what I meant, not a filler in the sense of boring content, but as a neat excursion outside of the main plot line. :)
That LoU episode is one of my favourite episodes over any series btw 💚
I don’t think there is a version of our world where Tom Bombadil is done well onscreen. While Jack Black has the energy for him, I would see Jack Black and not Bombadil Hey-Dol-Merry-Dol-ing.
Yeah maybe/probably. That’s always my biggest problem with famous actors, you know them as actors and thus the bridge to the character is further. I like when new/unknown actors are cast for large roles for that reason.
He would pronounce it “hrrrring-a-ding dillow.”
But then we’d have Kyle Gass as Goldberry.
It’s one of the core parts. Makes sense PJ and most commenters agree in discarding it. One can say it’s the closest we get in the book to characters talking to Middle-Earth itself. (Something no sane person would discard from Narnia books, for example.)
Careful what you wish for. You’ll get a “Tolkien Cinematic Universe” pile of algorithm driven ersatz ‘content’.
That doesn’t happen in my made up scenario where the world is good lol
There’s a difference, metaphorically, between the ballad and the accompanying ambient harp play, and in general background music.
The former is inconvenient - like a book or a tale. It conveys a story, a position, a morale, which inevitably leads to conflict and conflict is bad for business. It also can’t be generated from existing stories and positions to cover all audiences, they’ll average to the same bland product. It can only be borne out of human instincts and experiences. Even totalitarian propaganda has historically used real feelings and experiences.
While the latter can be generated and pipelined.
So the modern “consumerist” recommendation for art is to never look at the root, never search for the ballad itself, only for tables and food and harps and ambient play and windows and stones and the weather. And even if you look at what’s supposed to be the art at the root, it’s assumed that the modern way is to only rationalize it, find technical, formal similarities and intersections with something else, like a style or a touch, but never allow it to bloom naturally. Getting at the essence of things is seen as impolite and asocial.
(Reminds me of that quote about white color and wisdom.)
It’s literally soulless.
The thing is that, even if these new ones are the most awful media ever produced. It doesn’t change anything about the old ones. They will still stay awesome. They don’t depreciate just because other media exist. Or that would have already happened with the Rings of Power.
I just wish they put this time and effort into other franchises. I want more Discworld.
I want more Discworld
so do I, but also fear that executive meddling would butcher the originals beyond all recognition
If I was going to do more lotr content, I’d probably do something with the Eastern front of the war. What did the blue wizards get up to?
Likely rot in some pit
