12 Years ago I had a Sony Vaio. I quite liked it. Then in my next job, 2017 or so, I went for a Toshiba Portege, and absolutely loved it.
Guess what the above two have in common? Yup, they stopped making laptops for the professional market. So now I’m a bit at a loss. Any recommendations?
Requirements:
- Lightweight and easy to carry around.
- 13-15" display, preferably
- Decent battery life
- It absolutely must have an RJ45
- Works well with linux
- Good keyboard quality
- ISO keyboard availability
- Touchpad. Bonus points if it has the touchpad buttons ABOVE the pad itself.
Lenovo seems to be pretty solid but fuck… I still have a grudge over how much shittier they are than the old IBM ThinkPads.
We have nothing but problems with the ThinkPads issued by my IT department. Multiple models. They’re not what they used to be.
Same here, both E Series and L Series.
Those are the shit ones. Only T, X, W are the proper ones.
The problematic models we have are all T series.
Newer ones flex a lot more.
My last and current laptops were and are Lenovo. I definitely recommend
Look into the Framework 13. There are no touchpad buttons but otherwise it has everything you need and is fully upgradable and customizable. The laptop has four expansion ports that can hold a variety of hotpluggable expansion cards. The manufacturer offers USB-A, USB-C, HDMI, DisplayPort, 2.5G ethernet, microSD, audio and SSDs. There are also some community-made ones like LTE and dual USB-C.
When I eventually need to upgrade I won’t even consider anything that isn’t repairable on a similar level. Hopefully they will be sticking around until then, but it’s looking good on that front right now
Framework if you want to repair it yourself and Lenovo if you don’t. Lenovo makes a good machine and has very reasonably priced on-site support options.
Is this a joke? Framework as a work laptop?
Then what’s it for? Looking pretty?
Business laptops (at least at the enterprise end - SMB is a crapshoot) are typically backed by better warranties, guaranteed parts availability for a period, trade a more robust build for worse looks, have management features like PXE boot, and (historically) ports for docks. They’re also more likely to have compliance-driven features like fingerprint scanners, and are frequently more repairable.
Source: In a past life, I managed the entire end-user compute portfolio of a major OEM.
I am aware. I just assumed that since there’s not an IT department offering/mandating any particular option then it’s more of a prosumer type of situation. Both of my recommendations are a good fit. They both have good parts availability, an array of ports for peripherals, and Lenovo will provide next day service at your home or office with their premium support plans.
Hobbists and home devs I think.
Edit if anyone can link an example of a real sized business going with framework I’ll eat a delicious lunch very quickly so I become slightly uncomfortable
Why would a business not like a laptop that they don’t have to replace?
Because most businesses don’t think like that at all. They don’t want employees taking things apart either.
ThinkPads and similar are far more popular because they can be bought in large contracts
Fair point.
I’m genuinely asking, bought prebuilt what would be the difference from a normal laptop?
Cause I could see lower longterm costs being a great benefit to a business, and if one part fails not losing 100% of your data, just let the IT guy replace that part
Long term costs aren’t an issue, framework costs 2x as much as a comparable enterprise laptop.
With a warranty parts are replaced if needed by the vendor, the IT guy doesn’t need to do anything. They even come to your home.
Drivers are regular updated tested, verified, packaged together and deployed through a repository and management apps.
since many companies have the ability to switch vendors, costing a company like dell or Lenovo $100k+ per year by doing so, the vendors pay attention to issues.
Yeah but it isn’t exactly ideal to have to fully stop operations when something goes down, especially given the opportunity to solve things within 10 min.
I suppose this would be even greater benefit to smaller town/out of city center businesses, but still framework is a company, so they do go through their own quality testing
You can buy a 2nd spare laptop for the price of a framework.
Lenovo posts their compatibility with each windows release. They also provide specific driver packages to use.
They also have tools to remotely test and troubleshoot hardware issues, online and offline.
I’d love to have a framework and I support the idea they have for multiple reasons, but it’s not a legitimate business device yet.
Shit I’d love to see where youre finding a laptop with comparable specs at $750, I’ll probably pick one up
I just spec’d a framework for $2000+ and a comparable Lenovo Thinkpad for $1000.
Another item important for work users availability. I wouldn’t the Lenovo in a few days. Not sure about the framework.
You’re getting downvoted, but the only way a business buys frameworks is if they’re running a pilot program. They are just not proven in that environment yet.
For a dev going to a coffee shop… sure. It’s your work laptop.
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Thinkpad T, W, X series.
Also the P series (succesor of W). X series, just avoid the X1 Carbon.
We found the carbon to be okay, but the fan ramped up to TOGA mode super fast.
Bonus points for the aviation reference
I’ve used Macbooks in networking / programming and construction environments for over fifteen years. They’ve been incredibly solid in my experience. In fact, the first week I was given a Thinkpad, I broke it because it was so much more fragile than a Mac. I always used USB adapters for Ethernet and serial connections without issue. They also run Windows and Linux.
They also run Windows
They no longer do (since the switch to ARM) - unless you count running under a VM.
Right. I use Parallels.
Windows supports ARM https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/overview
I know, but you can’t install it directly on a MacBook - you have to use a VM like Parallels or UTM.
Honestly, unless you need Solidworks or something else highly resource heavy and windows only, VMs work well with M chips. They’re surprisingly fast.
I’ve got an M1 MBA - it’s fast for sure, but the issue isn’t the processing power, it’s the RAM. Basemodel MacBooks, like the one I’ve got, still come with only 8GB RAM which is barely enough for macOS alone, never mind running Windows on top.
But nothing supports windows arm
Their Linux support is so bad it might as well be unsupported.
I run Asahi on my 2023 m2pro mbp; performance-wise it’s closer to a contemporary i7 than the actual performance of the M chip on macos, but a lot of what I need is there, a surprising amount of stuff is compiled for Arm64 actually. Feels like normal Fedora in most every aspects. Coming from thinkpads / latitudes, keyboard is shit tho, really. Screen is great, sound is quite good, device feels sturdy but sleep eats 50% battery a day. Air vents are placed just right to gulp any spilled drink, like, vacuuming it off the table, a puzzling design choice. Prices took a dive with the advent of the m3 so I’m not really angry, a 2023 i7 thinkpad would have cost me the same.
In fact, the first week I was given a Thinkpad, I broke it because it was so much more fragile than a Mac
Genuine question, but what the actual fuck are you doing with your laptops? I used a ThinkPad through high school and college, and school aged me certainly didn’t treat it very kindly.
I picked it up by the screen and the LCD cracked. I realize this is stupid but it’s something I’ve always done and continue to do with Macs.
Why? That’s not a good way to pick up laptop, the base is heavier than screen
stupid
Indeed
Premium product experience at a premium price. Whether the cost premium is worth it is a judgment call for the user.
Premium product experience
The hardware is pretty premium, but the software is such a pain. As a result the overall experience is just “okay”.
I see you’ve never seen a Dell BPA
Dell is giving the Feds a premium experience?
More like Dell likes to appear premium:
- Crappy Dell Latitude, Price: $6995, YOUR PRICE: 2995.
And on the website it’s like a $1000 laptop. And it still falls apart one year later.
I have been a loyal Lenovo customer for years. Their laptops are not cool or sexy, but they are reliable.
I’ve had 2 touch screens completely become unresponsive in the last year or 2. Both Lenovo, so I’ll never buy from them again
For what it’s worth, I’ve bought two laptops from them in the last four years and had tons of problems initially (there were both essentially pre orders, first run laptops). A few minutes on the phone, some trouble shooting,and I had replacements for both overnighted for free. Zero issues with the replacements in both cases.
So yes, don’t order the brand newest Lenovo. Get the one a generation old at deeep discount.
System76.
My experience with clevo Models is that they aren’t really well built.
Lenovo X1 carbon is what you are looking for. I got one (10th Gen) and slapped fedora on it and it’s been absolutely awesome.
Battery life could be better, but I haven’t tweaked it.
Good luck finding a quality new laptop with Linux support that also has a rj45 port. Framework might be an option though. But I just use a gigabit Ethernet usb3 adapter and it works fine
You’d get more battery & performance out of AMD, but the X1 is Intel. Looks like they don’t even offer OLED on that line either.
Hey 10th gen Carbon X1 running fedora twin! Only annoyance is manually installing displaylink drivers if that’s a concern.
uhh… what kind of work?
the panasonic toughbook and apple macbook air are two wildly different laptops i have seen extensively in the field but not at the same workplaces.
Also a matte screen.
There’s a reason dells are everywhere
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I can’t really fault that logic. I like the keyboard, the screen, any many other things with them. It’s just some minor annoyances with some of the Fn keycombos that I don’t like.
But one thing that I can say for sure: It will never be as durable as my Toshiba. It fell between two ships decks. It slid off the roof of a car and syraight into asphalt. It has pieces missing from it. The RJ45 port has been torn out of the mainboard. But it still works, and I bought it out for 50$ when I left my previous employer, and I still use it from time to time to this day.
Sorry, but no, they’re shit.
And for the price they still them at, they’re double shit.
The Dell Latitude I got from work is really the worst laptop I’ve ever used. Do not buy.
Actually, I thought dells were shit computers, then I started working at a place that only deals in Dell. I’m actually pretty impressed after having used a 5300. It’s been a pretty solid choice except for the battery.
I work help desk, and I’m actually surprised we don’t get more issue tickets considering it’s a global company.
Dells are great until they break. Ever seen an HDD taped the the top side of a motherboard? I hadn’t until I was working on a dell Inspiron. Also, their drivers are usually the biggest pain in the ass to load.
That being said, I had a D620 latitude in college with a 9 cell battery, and that thing would handle all my classes for the day on a single charge. It was also much sturdier than the Toshiba Satellite M505D I switched to.
My experience daily driving a latitude for the last 2 years in my current company has been solid AF
Well apart for Ubuntu driver’s issues but that’s not dells fault
Novacustom, System76. Doesnt tick everything but has Coreboot support.
Tuxedo, if in EU
They use proprietary firmware, dont they?
They use coreboot, at least mine has it.
Thats cool!
Basically any Lenovo Thinkpad. They’re cheap, strong and easy to repair/upgrade
Never had one but the prevailing suggestion seems to be Lenovo ThinkPad
I can see why many like them, but unfortunately I didn’t. It’s what I had for a short while before I got the Toshiba.
