Brute force protection

@memes

  • @[email protected]
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    1782 months ago

    It’s not quite complete without code on the password reset page to tell you that you can’t reuse your password.

    • @kryptonianCodeMonkey
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      1302 months ago

      And label the text box “username” when it only accepts email address.

      • @helpImTrappedOnline
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        612 months ago

        Don’t forget to have hidden password requirements and secretly truncate any password longer than 12 characters.

        • @kautau
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          312 months ago

          Well yeah, if you don’t truncate the password to 12 chars how will you fit the plaintext in a memory efficient fixed latin1 CHAR column that only accepts letters, numbers, and underscores

          /s

          • @helpImTrappedOnline
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            12 months ago

            Intresting. At least they got their act together, even making a physical totp authenticator in the 2000s.

      • @[email protected]
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        2 months ago

        And then validate the email with a custom regex that definitely doesn’t account for all the valid syntax permutations defined by the several email-oriented RFCs

        • @[email protected]
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          32 months ago

          Only on mobile though, on desktop have different criteria. Perhaps give the text box an arbitrary max length of like 30 characters on sign-in but not on account creation.

    • Deebster
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      92 months ago

      I’ve had that before and I’m very confident the password was correct - my theory is that they’d changed how non-ASCII characters like £ were handled and their code only half recognised my password.

    • bitwolf
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      2 months ago

      I never got that rule. Surely it is less secure to keep records of historical passwords than to let someone rotate between !!! And #### etc

  • @gibmiser
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    1272 months ago

    As a non programmer, is the joke that humans will retype their password assuming that they made a typo?

    If so, sick indeed.

    • @[email protected]
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      992 months ago

      The guy coding made it so, on your first attempt, even if you answer correctly, it will tell you your login failed due to incorrect username or password, to joke about how it feels like you always get it wrong on the first try

      • @soloner
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        2 months ago

        The logic is bugging me, though. It should be if isFirstAttempt || !isPasswordCorrect

        I understand the meme is trying to convey in spite of being correct to still return an error, but then it doesn’t account for when the password is actually incorrect.

        • @QuaternionsRock
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          2 months ago

          That defeats the brute-force attack protection…

          The idea is that brute-force attackers will only check each password once, while real users will likely assume they mistyped and retype the same password.

          The code isn’t complete, and has nothing to do with actually incorrect passwords.

        • @reflectedodds
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          162 months ago

          Like the other person said, it’s not meant to always fail the first time you enter any password.

          It is meant to fail the first time you enter the correct password.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 months ago

            So it should be: if password == correct and first_success == true then { login failure; first_success = false }

            Something like that.

    • NutWrench
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      112 months ago

      I would assume that I was being phished and the attacker wanted me to re-type the password to verify that it’s correct.

  • @Matriks404
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    2 months ago

    Well, I sometimes input the same password 15-times in a row, and it works only on the last try. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

  • @Cruxifux
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    562 months ago

    I swear this is what some websites do

  • @Boop2133
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    342 months ago

    The one guy got grey hairs in-between slides lol

      • Rickety Thudds
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        102 months ago

        Rainbow tables and presumably newer stuff I haven’t heard of make this sort of thing weaker than it used to be

        • @[email protected]
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          272 months ago

          Salting makes rainbow tables pretty much useless, and salting has been a standard practise for a few decades now.

          • @Mango
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            12 months ago

            A few? I always had an easy time cracking my mom’s desktop password with them so I guess Microsoft wasn’t doing it with XP or Vista.

            • @kuneho
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              2 months ago

              Just to give you some opposite example, WordPress, Magento, Drupal, Django are using salts almost 2 decades now.

              • @Mango
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                12 months ago

                No I’m a few decades old.

        • @Whelks_chance
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          172 months ago

          How does a rainbow table help here? They’re more for decoding unsalted encrypted database tables, rather than for actually trying to login.

        • @Clent
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          132 months ago

          The rainbow table would have to include every four word combination. At around half a million words in the English dictionary, that’s not a small number.

          As another XKCD comic illustrates, it’s cheaper to use a wrench.

        • @[email protected]
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          2 months ago

          Dictionary attacks have been around for a long time, but It’s still quite strong especially if you throw in a number.

          A fully random 8 character password has about 10^14 brute force combinations (assuming upper and lower case + the normal special characters). 4 words choosen at random from the top 3000 words (which is a very small vocabulary really) is 10^13 dictionary attack combinations, add a single number or account for variations in word style (I.e maybe don’t always use camel case) and you’ve matched the difficulty. If you use 5 words it’s 10^17 combinations.

          A password manager and a hard password is a better idea but there are cases where you can’t use a password manager (like the password to said manager).

          • Rickety Thudds
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            32 months ago

            I’m a basic little shit so, I basically use a correct horse + number password for my PW manager

            • @[email protected]
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              72 months ago

              I use a whole sentence with a typo lol

              Something like "On March the 3rd of 2012 my dog Billy ate 8€ worrth of schmeggles!“

              • AWildMimicAppears
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                2 months ago

                Used beginning letters of the words in song verse sprinkled with special characters for the rythm, feels good while typing

          • @[email protected]
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            12 months ago

            I do a passphrase like the comic followed by 56 characters of gibberish using an https://onlykey.io/ (acts as a USB keyboard) that has a 10 digit pin (6 characters to choose from) and a kill switch pin (if I were ever forced to unlock it). I use this method for my disk encryption, main account login, and password manager.

            I also use a https://www.themooltipass.com/ for vendor diversity (4 digit pin but all hex characters). I prefer the onlykey.

            I rotate the gibberish monthly and the passphrase 2-3 times a year.

            Once a year I change up the pin codes.

            I figure that gives me enough entropy from brute force on all my systems with a balanced level of convienence and security. I literally don’t know a single one of my passwords.

        • @[email protected]
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          32 months ago

          Yeah I thought about adding a note that it’s pretty outdated - and dictionary based scans were always possible even if less common in the old days - like those infamous passwords “God”, “Love”, “secret”, or like “admin”.

          The artist is pretty smart most of the time though so I presume they were aware of that possibility and meant that on a more basic level there are multiple ways to make passwords easier for a user to remember, not necessarily just this one rather simplistic take but as part of a whole approach. Then again, they didn’t say that, and instead said this, thus the controversy.

          Personally I gave up entirely and now I don’t even know what any of my own passwords are, though my password manager does:-). I guess… if you cannot beat them, join them!?:-P

          • @[email protected]
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            2 months ago

            My current favorite “memorizable” method (obviously a random hash from a PW manager is still better) is to take a sentence of moderate complexity that includes the name of the service you’re signing up for in it, and use the first letter of each word as your password.

            For example, “When I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is go to pawb.social.”

            Password would be “WIwuitm,tftIdigtps.”

            Easy to remember, immune to dictionary attacks, and you get a (mostly) unique password for each service, so stolen passwords can only access that one thing.

            Edit: To be clear, the value is that you can use the same sentence everywhere, switching out the name of the service to generate semi-unique passwords for each service. Obviously someone analyzing your passwords would be able to figure out the pattern, but that’s basically never what actually happens; it’s more likely someone gets 1 password and tries your email address + that PW in a variety of services, which this is strong against.

            • @[email protected]
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              32 months ago

              I dunno, all I do is hit copy, then go to the website and hit paste, and that’s pretty easy as well:-P.

              I do need to step up my game for work though, b/c it keeps asking me a password multiple times a day so if I could rattle one off that would be better than having to open up my password manager and get it.

              • @[email protected]
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                22 months ago

                It’s surprisingly easy to memorize. The sentence basically acts as a mnemonic device to remember the password, and it’s a lot easier to memorize a sentence that makes sense to you than to memorize something like “Tr0ub4d0r&8”.

                • the post of tom joad
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                  12 months ago

                  I just see myself changing the words around honestly. It’s not like i think it’s a bad idea just dunno if i can pull it off

            • @The_v
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              12 months ago

              I have a strict, “do I give a fuck” policy when it comes to security.

              I keep the harder to crack passwords for critical things like banking, etc… since there’s only a few I can remember them. I also always use MFA.

              For all the other shit that I don’t give a fuck if it’s hacked it’s the good old *Banana$1234" type password that I reuse for decades and save to firefox’s password manager.

          • @[email protected]
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            2 months ago

            It’s not outdated at all, but you need more words.

            See diceware, 7 to 8 words is typically all you need

      • Rustmilian
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        2 months ago

        Example of what My passwords are like :
        %*7EfOLkN@6AP28!8Dl#
        or potentially if allowed :
        W@c2wYnN9J3xGcyc47#ZkHJvt&Hm%q&Ad0b&Xwz#jnl4Th%6UBexD16a$YBFc@svnVrCBxXP0EpwLp6%Gk*Lom%@Qq#DjY1zsf0CzIrHHqPc8gt4edDVsg!omj*kIsIJ
        Good luck guessing my shit.

        • @[email protected]
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          92 months ago

          Amateur! Strong enough passwords are like:

          ÕÚüd¸2stb½õ~jëv×Â/oyÓh²î´t¶»Ö°ÍðoNVRïé2Wc4'H,CâÞó_ökÅ,Kð¡X9ÄÀ.þTØÓoæ73d*ëÞ¢?²i"`צeÉçß,ÎÅëüS.¹([)ãÒÑêf9÷¿¢=@Á×ÅQÎÂßu¸Å(iRZµîw&ãR
          
          • MeatPilot
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            122 months ago

            That’s the stupidest combination I’ve ever heard in my life! That’s the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

          • Rustmilian
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            2 months ago

            Try this on for size :

            `'�d+�t<�5mF�qrqcmv/�F��~��Yv�Om�/lK�RɏY%ɺP1�h�Ryl-�G/��m�ʰ�+^)��<>�itdkaz�q2HA*1�PK�D@{9�vN.<}�~ٕ�_�26IA/cHIn����1ĈҾܒl�I9$�vA��W¸ȶW"z�}θ�x�,>~�Ux�SJZ\�5ÀI��F}nLZT�;KӚq�&NQo32y7���0"^LÎs>��j!��V��k��2O<2W�ƽYcA#8�J�Of�pهZb�%1g�w�!k*h(ʶ73�@�CC�hUsԺe!_��dR�ٞpvG|.=4{v"&.��m=_�͚DZZף�aaZ��Cq�!sG1T3�=2lb,����^�镰n)Ld]��Ϯ
            

            What’s my power level now?

            • @darelik
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              42 months ago

              #ENHANCE

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            • @[email protected]
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              22 months ago

              You lever is very low! There are not displayable characters so you cannot easly verity the password by eye or copy from paper.

              • Rustmilian
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                2 months ago

                Why would I have to verify by eye? That’s what a password manager is for. And writing your passwords on paper? ಠ⁠益⁠ಠ

      • @iAvicenna
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        32 months ago

        I suspect if the cracking code was constructed such that it had more weight on trying combinations of common words then this would be much easier to crack

        • @[email protected]
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          22 months ago

          I would naively think that as well - you would expand your alphabet of “symbols” to include both single letters and numbers and punctuation but also common words as well. It is still a lot of combinations to have to try though, even if less than each letter by itself.

  • @TORFdot0
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    302 months ago

    If they had the password right the first try, that isn’t a brute force attack, thats a credential leak.

    • @[email protected]
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      162 months ago

      It should be that it rejects the password the first time it’s entered correctly but accepts it on every subsequent try. That actually would provide some protection against like dictionary attacks and raw brute force attacks.

    • @iAvicenna
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      82 months ago

      could also work in a brute force scenario, but first attempt would be not first attempt in a set amount of time but first attempt for each password by the user in a fixed amount of time

  • @[email protected]
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    162 months ago

    Fine I’ll just change my password to what I thought it should be.

    *New password cannot match old password

  • @finkrat
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    2 months ago

    Won’t protect against an offline attack (just will confuse the hell out of the hacker) but might confound an online attack? Until someone gets wise and runs the tool a second time. Loving the chaotic neutral vibes here.

    • @[email protected]
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      42 months ago

      It doesn’t really even protect against online attacks though. Like, if you’re going through a list of known accounts, by definition it won’t be any of those accounts’ first time logging in, right?

      And if you’re not going through a list of known accounts, good luck getting anywhere with your attack any time this millennia

      • Tarquinn2049
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        152 months ago

        This would be per session, not lifetime.

        • @kautau
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          22 months ago

          This makes it even more cursed

        • @[email protected]
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          02 months ago

          Function naming could use some work then, it’s not obvious that isFirstLoginAttempt would be session-aware.

          Sorry, I’ll stop being pedantic now

  • @Pacmanlives
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    132 months ago

    I remember in college editing OpenSSH source code to instead of return wrong password to a root shell prompt just to stop brute force attacks

      • @Pacmanlives
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        21 month ago

        Oh all of my configs are deny root ssh login or without-password. I noticed a significant decrease in scans when returning a root prompt when I did that. This was also in the mid 2000s so who knows how things would be in this day in age for a reduction in scans

        • andersOP
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          225 days ago

          @Pacmanlives
          So it was a fake root prompt which tricked the bots into believing that they logged in successfully but in reality the prompt could do nothing on the system?

  • @normalexit
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    82 months ago

    This is a really interesting idea, but a password manager would throw a wrench in it.

    I’d assume my password was invalidated or stored incorrectly, so I’d reset, then I’d try to log in, wtf… this website blows.

  • @TheCheddarCheese
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    62 months ago

    took me a solid 30 seconds of re-reading to get the joke