- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
TLDR: StartAllBack, ExplorerPatcher and some other projects are being blocked on 24H2.
One more reason to switch to Linux
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The Microsoft devs have time to do shit like this, but haven’t yet gotten the Settings screen as functional as Control Panel was two decades ago…
Do NOT blame the devs for this. They are not the ones to decide the direction of the product or the priority of the tickets they work. Blame upper management for making these poor decisions and the product managers for being spineless and not pushing back.
But Steve Ballmer told me “Developers Developers Developers Developers”
Are you saying that was a lie?
He also squealed IIRC
Does anyone else wonder which medication Steve Ballmer was prescribed but didn’t take? He always struck me as a walking check engine light.
Relevant XKCD:
Oh was he an alcoholic? See I got more cocaine vibes out of the man.
Maybe they are pushing back, which is why Control Panel still exists?
Meanwhile the new settings panel is telling me my network is private while control panel and network share settings tell me it’s domain authenticated.
…while you’re sitting in an internet café
It would be funny if true.
Sadly the reality is me calling with a client because this one single PC refuses to apply the damn GPOs… :(Every day I’m thankful for having found a job where in such a case I can just send out a pre-imaged replacement pc from the pile and have them send the old one back.
I would like to. Sadly there are programs on it that can be reinstalled and configured by the respeonsible 3rd party but are still annoying.
The best: No other pc has trouble applying the damn gpo.
Even the DNS resolutiom seems to work on this shit thing… :|
I’m pretty sure everybody knows it’s not just a couple of developers by themselves churning out windows. Even the project managers are just following orders. Marketing sets the tone upper management picks the path.
Yeah . . . marketing – the department famous for being able to steer the flagship product of a trillion-dollar company.
He said marketing sets the tone (not the path), and that is absolutely true. Many products are killed or poorly received due to the tone poor marketing set.
This is just nonsense that internet denizens tell themselves because they don’t like decisions made in board rooms and can’t conceptualize a business development team. Marketing is following orders just as much as some rando code monkey.
The scary truth is: The CEO scribbles “CLOUD 1ST”, “FOCUS ON ENTERPRISE” and “WIN AS A SERVICE” on a napkin during a 5-star dinner and everyone below them tries to make sense of it and translate it into a business strategy. No one is really in charge.
Thank you. The one arena where the fault really does lie in few enough hands they fit around a biggish table, and the Internet instead makes a nebulous boogeyman out of “marketing” (don’t get it twisted either y’all, I condone zero of the bullshit marketing practices we all hate, but that’s also the same table of people) instead of the board.
It’s not even secret information. The decision came from the minds of these folks (as they understood what they asked to be measured and think to steer to measure higher numbers of whatever they’re measuring):
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx
Unfortunately, blaming the devs seems to be a recurring problem. I remember seeing this in a YouTube comment thread (paraphrased):
why can’t i insert a bible reference without it becoming blue? i write proverbs 14:23 and youtube turns it into a damn timestamp. f-cking lazy developers, they removed dislikes, now keep preventing adblock and cannot detect a simple quote??
I replied with something like:
Hey, stop blaming the devs. It was not their decision to make the unpopular changes, and making a system for detecting if a comment is referring to a book with chapter:verse syntax (not just the bible, and all their versions & translations) is not something they would pay for. For the record, you can refer to Proverbs 14:23 or any other verse without making it a link. I can show you how but first repent and apologize for undervaluing people’s hard work.
(Yes, there’s just a ZWSP after the colon. It can be mapped to a key combo if one uses it often.) He did not answer but maybe didn’t see my reply buried way underneath – it was YouTube comments, after all. Legend says that bible references in his video description keep messing up his worship chapters.
i think its because these words are used interchangeably.
when people say ‘devs’ i believe they mean the microsoft team in general
The devs are the people who, after seeing everything that Microsoft’s done for the past 30+ years, decided to take a job there anyway.
That’s not a very valid argument.
First and foremost, most devs probably see it as a job and they do what they’re told. They don’t have the power to refute decisions coming from above.
Second, in this economy where jobs are scarer than a needle in multiple haystacks, people are desperate to get a job.
Third, yes, there may be some Microsoft (M$) fan-people who end up being devs at M$. Sure, they may willingly implement the things upper management may request. However, I’m not sure whether that’s true for most of the people who work at M$.
Your comment suggests to shift the blame to the devs who implement the features that upper management request for. Don’t shoot the (MSN) messenger.
You overestimate the agency of a developer.
I really hate having the taskbar permanently affixed to the bottom of my screen. I’ve had it on the left side for decades now. They are really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Someone at Microsoft “Customization is the enemy of progress!”
I’m on 10 and been a top taskbar guy for years. Are you saying 11 forces you to have taskbar only on bottom?
Correct
Welp fuck. Guess I’ll start looking at Linux but every company I’ve worked for in the past 10 years is ALL Microsoft all the way
Wine does a Lotta shit. I know I have an NTFS drive running on my debian-family machine.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
Basically, they like to drink wine.
No. I’m kidding. WINE stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator, and it allows you to run Windows applications on a Linux machine. It’s far from perfect, but it can be a lifesaver when switching from Windows to Linux. What user melpomenesclevage is trying to say, is that you can use WINE to significantly blunt the blow / daily usability learning curve when switching, to keep some of your familiar applications as is.
Edit: here’s their site https://www.winehq.org/ the also explain it much better than I.
How you explained it helped a lot. So it basically is a windows emulator but isn’t for legal reasons? Lol
You can run a lot of windows apps on Linux even if they don’t say they’re compatible, with a tool called WINE
Also, it matters less if youre a little tipsy.
Sadly, wine does nothing for my work application.
Then wait until windows breaks it or it technically functions trapped in an unusable shell, and lose everything.
In Win98 we were able to put the taskbar anywhere natively and even could split those quick launch toolbars out of it and put it on another side by itself. I can’t believe MS is constantly removing features. I’m a Linux user for decades now, but I still also use Windows at work and it’s always bothered me MS re-invents the wheel so often and every time the wheel looks a bit more like a rectangle.
The taskbar was movable since it was first introduced in Win95. I’ve always had a top taskbar, and will continue to do so in Linux.
I have been missing the ability to split the quick launch and dock it since XP was the last time you could. I had a dedicated auto hiding bar on the right where I put shortcuts to all of my most used folders and applications. I have looked for solutions that brought that functionality back off and on, but never found anything.
Most things are close, but not quite right, and/or very “bloated” (for what I want it to do, not necessarily for what it was designed to do). It’s so dumb.
Just a slight correction, Vista was the last time you could split toolbars off of the taskbar like that, its taskbar was basically the same as XP still. The redesign in 7 was when we lost that ability.
Will say the docked toolbars did look significantly worse in vista as they all got an wide aero border
Huh, thinking about it I’m not sure if I ever really ran Vista on my main desktop at home, so that would make sense. I think I went from my roided out XP x64 image to win 7 despite using Vista quite a bit when working on customer’s PCs. Thanks for the correction, cheers.
Why? Why even fucking do this? What do they get? And why is their default ux so aggressively terrible?
They want you to use the search instead of a functional interface. That’s why they keep making the interface worse.
It lets them spy on you through bing, allows them to fill the results with ads, and lets them hide system applications unless you know exactly how to find them.
It’s also them gearing up towards funneling the entire UX through copilot for largely the same reasons.
The entire goal is to flip the operating system from the slave of the user to the master of the content.
As to how rationales go, this is the clearest.
I hate it.
Yeah that sounds probable, and I’m worried what happens to all the data on windows machines when they do.
Almost plausible, except their search doesn’t fucking work either. I have repeatedly had the experience of typing the exact name of a program I know I have installed only for it not to appear in the incremental results. Sometimes programs will appear if you type less than the full name but then disappear if you dare type all of it. Sometimes the only way for me to find programs I want is to use an alternative launcher like the one in PowerToys. The last time start menu search actually worked was Windows 8.1. I fucking hate it, and it has driven me to make the leap to Linux for my personal computer, I am loving it so far.
That’s… Exactly what I was talking about. Master of the content.
I am fully aware that the windows search hides things that you are actually searching for. Particularly if they are system preference apps, and it always goes to bing first regardless.
Also, I bailed as well. I use windows for work and school, otherwise I’m on linux.
Yeah, I think I was actually agreeing with you, I just had a rant that wanted to get out lol
Oh God, I wish that you are wrong! Because if you’re right, that answer is horrifying!
Hmmm, maybe Windows hired some of the GNOME developers
Not even gnome is this fucking awful.
Gnome is nothing like Windows. I honestly can’t think of a DE further away from how windows works than Gnome lol. It’s KDE and Cinnamon that copied the tried and tested Windows UX paradigm, perhaps you have your DEs muddled…
The whole ethos of Gnome is throwing out the Windows workflow and going with a completely reimagined one completely unshackled from traditional UX.
Is this just one of those gnome=evilsuperbad comments
Not the person you replied to, but I think I get his meaning.
Windows/MS obviously has strong opinion on how the desktop should look like and behave and they’re shoveling it to the user hard. Gnome tends to do the same thing, although the UI/UX is completely different. Yet the similarity is in the forceful pushing said concept to the user whether user likes it or not.
Sure there are plugins for gnome so you can customize it a lot after all, but it requires some tinkering and your regular not tech savvy user won’t ever find a way to do so.
//edit: not hating on gnome. I kind of like its concept and used it for some time, although I don’t use it myself as my daily driver now.
The difference being that people go out of their way to use Gnome. People opt in to the developers vision because they see it as a good one.
Nothing is forced. Gnome doesn’t “force” you to do anything, or to use their product. And they allow any customisation you want, they’re just clear that they don’t provide any support for stuff that you mess around with.
Windows isn’t like that at all.
I don’t really agree. Imagine you were happy user of old Gnome 2, like e.g. my father. Then out of sudden Gnome 3 came, totally different in every aspect. What were your options? Either deal with it or get something different. Experienced users might (easily) overcome this, but regular user struggle. In case of my dad it meant return to windows…
Sure gnome doesn’t force you to use it. Neither does MS with windows. You’re free to install whatever you like, even TempleOS if you want.
Well you could also disagree that the earth revolves around the sun, but it doesn’t make it so.
MS does force you to use windows. They used anti-competitive practices to place themselves in a monopoly position. They forced their products into schools and governments, they forced it on OEMs, etc.
Gnome devs aren’t your slaves. It’s their project and they’re allowed to have preferences. If you don’t like their decisions, cool. Don’t use it.
If you don’t like what they do, don’t install gnome. The same goes for anything else in the FOSS world.
What a novel idea. I’m also allowed to have preferences and post them on the Internet. I’m also allowed to have bad takes.
It doesn’t change the fact that GNOME and Windows are defaults in certain spheres of computing. Which tends to people bitching about the choices those projects make. Certainly as a home user I’m not forced to use them but what about as an employee or student. But I’m your worldview I should opt to be homeless and uneducated.
Anyway, my comment wasn’t entirely fuck GNOME. Their design philosophy is minimalism and simplicity sometimes at the behest of options. Which is not unlike the choice Windows made here. However, that’s not too say that it’s always a bad choice, KDE may have too many options. But, yes, I was being a bit tongue in cheek.
Thanks,
Original guy you replied to
It is. People who shit on gnome are insufferable. Just use your other de and stfu.
Gnome’s demented ideas make it into apps I run in KDE. I don’t need buttons, drop-down menus, and text input fields in my title bar lol. I’m lookin at you, LACT.
Look, I appreciate you want a Windows imitation, but not everybody does, ok
Gnome is copying windows by putting buttons on the title bar lol
Lol, no.
Just keep using your “but we have windows at home” imitation.
Gnome has amazing ideas, that’s why they’re so successful. If you don’t like the software that’s being provided to you for free, don’t use it.
And yes, we get it, you use KDE btw. How about you just accept that different people want different things and that FOSS developers are free to make what they want, and you’re free to not use it.
Well let’s not forget the corporate sponsorship from the biggest player in Linux, preferable release cycle, and preferable license back in the day.
That’s part of Gnome being a well-run DE, yes.
Eh, I admit my comment is kind of tongue in cheek and it isn’t my favorite DE but I used it for a while (esp 2.0). I think it’s kind of a stretch to call it shitting on though. Their design philosophy is literally simplicity and consistency. Which sometimes comes at the behest of customization. That’s not shitting it just is what it is.
The fact you’re getting downvoted for this is insane lol
Some people structure their entire personality around hating a random successful Linux DE. It’s fucking weird.
This submission is about Microsoft being bad, but apparently it’s Gnome’s fault lol. The Linux community is so ridiculously toxic lmao
Really, did they actually take that feature away. Every executive to touch windows 11 needs fired.
We just need to stop using this garbage. Its not going to get better. Migrate to Linux and hope for support.
Same. Not being able to move the taskbar, alongside all the other downgrades to it and the start menu is what got me to check out Linux as a desktop OS for real, and not just out of curiosity. So far, I don’t see going back.
And I was even one of the few dozen people who loved Win8. At least there the points that got criticized were due to sweeping and bold changes. Win11 on the other hand feels like the same as 10 but with arbitrary features removed in the core part of the OS.
I’ve had it up top for years. Windows 11 is unusable in the current state. The new shell is utter garbage. And they messed up the control panel even more than I thourght possible.
The fact that windows is now becoming Apple 2.0 is kinda crazy ngl lol, thought shouldn’t be surprising cuz every tech company is now doing enshittification at this point.
And yet they’re not even becoming apple in the areas where apple does well - UX consistency, battery optimisations, a reasonably well-curated app store, etc
who the hell needs an app store on PC?
Linux does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and it’s loved.
Windows does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and people question why it’s needed.
That’s because the windows one came a decade+ too late, has a bunch of restrictions (particularly at launch when you couldn’t even put desktop apps in it), and generally doesn’t fit with the ecosystem. One of the reason Linux package managers are loved is it is a one-stop-shop for all app and OS updates. The Microsoft Store doesn’t do that, nor can you add third party repositories to it (like you can in Linux) in order to attempt to make it a one-stop-shop.
A big hint here is it’s called the Microsoft Store. It doesn’t perform the same function or achieve the same goals as a Linux package manager. And that is on purpose.
At least they made a good choice with
winget.♥️
wingetmy beloved ♥️
I mean, there’s lots of things in OSes that you don’t need but are very useful to have. I love having access to Paint when I use Windows, but it’s certainly not a hard OS requirement.
I imagine you’re reeling at the idea of an app store on PC primarily because you know the Microsoft store to be absolute dog shit, and you’d be right, because it’s a steaming turd. It’s full of crap, fraudulent paid copies of open source software, outdated software because the dev hasn’t bothered to update the WinStore listing, etc.
If you look over at the Linux world and installing apps is generally as simple as: open the software centre, search for software, press the install button, you’re done. Updates will be done either manually or automatically through the software centre, for all of your apps.
Now, contrast that with what people actually do on Windows (because they sure as fuck aren’t using the MS store): open your web browser (hey btw we noticed you’re not using Edge, do you want to switch???), search for the software, make sure to click the link to the correct website (which isn’t always obvious if you don’t know the developer name), navigate to the download page, select Windows [version] x86_64, open your downloads folder, run the installer with admin permissions, go through an installer, delete the installer file, delete the shortcut it added to your desktop. Updates will be handled by an updater service for each individual app and most love to start running immediately after booting your machine.
A better app store is absolutely something Microsoft should be looking into
that’s true. on Linux, I used the software center or whatever. Microsoft store tho? never
Thing is, I think Microsoft has a vested interest/legal responsibility to their shareholders to make sure the Windows Store is as constipated as possible.
They can’t have Firefox or Chrome in there, they have to push their browser, Edge, because their shareholders will sue them if they facilitate installing someone else’s spyware instead of their own. They don’t put old versions of Solitaire or FreeCell in there, because the new ones run ads. Third parties are either as evil as Microsoft, or they won’t touch their store with a barge pole.
So what’s in the Microsoft store? Office, Minecraft Bedrock Edition, and a bunch of worthless crap you’ve never heard of.
One tech company said “Hey, I can see the bottom!” and every other tech company replied “Race you there!”
They’re not becoming Apple 2.0, Apple is becoming Microsoft 2.0. If you look into the history of Microsoft and Windows, you’ll see that they’ve always been this way, but have received more pushback in the past. Microsoft is the OG tech giant empire.
They’re not exactly “being blocked” but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I’m not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.
They’re not exactly “being blocked”
Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
Not if you’re using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.
But sure, downvote me.
deleted by creator
The article is actually incomplete. Some insider builds already lack the old taskbar, it can’t be invoked and if an application relies on it you simply get a crash.
This is not new behavior from Windows. When legacy features are going to be removed, they do stagger updates when users have known software conflicts installed, they also might throw warnings. This is exactly what we are seeing now.
Though the fact this small article is just reporting on Reddit information rather than testing insider builds is not my fault nor my concern.
deleted by creator
sounds like a 21st century version of quack3.exe.
They are, to the best of Microsoft security professionals’ abilities
Just kidding, the devs are probably using ExplorerPatcher themselves and are sabotaging this asshole move
A Microsoft representative (?) opened an issue for Explorer Patcher:
Hi Team,
This is to let you know that Win10 taskbar code is removed. And if use continue to use ExplorePatcheron Windows GE Build, they will see a crash. You only need to adjust the setup exe name to get around the block in your new version. We will continue to block ANY version that crashes Explorer.
Please let me know if you have any question.
Thanks Michelle
Makes sense to me.
Didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
If only there was a way to know who removed the code
it is a mystery 👻
Why is Microsoft even deciding what programs I can run on my computer in the first place? They’re not malware, they shouldn’t be doing this at all.
It’s the Windows Defender component. Blocking things that interfere with your computer is literally what it was designed and intended to do.
Good news hidden in the article:
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
@OP: People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux
Yeah. Not just to avoid a quick file rename.
Although, I started out as someone who modified Windows that deeply, and I ended up on Linux.
One of my reasons for switching was when my favorite Windows mod stopped working, and there was no recourse.
This sounds like it goes beyond that and the Windows team is actively pushing modders out?
I think this will have an effect, and we will get more migrations.
Yep, Microsoft is also blocking some github scripts for disabling telemetry,etc. They are just making it worse for themselves
That’s why you block the telemetry at the router level as a big fat fuck you.
What do you mean?
Are these scripts being distributed via github or disabling telemetry on github?
I mean PowerShell scripts used to disable telemetry services on Windows.
I switched when a Windows update for the third time in a month forcibly changed the default pdf and html file association to edge.
That was like 5 years ago, and I’ve never looked back.
Anyone could just as easily say:
Windows does not compete with macOS as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that macOS - for all its faults - has.
Windows isn’t compatible with Final Cut Pro, has a lackluster implementation of Adobe Photoshop comparatively, and has no support for common cli shells such as bash or zsh (without creating an emulated subsystem ala Cygwin or WSL). Setting up a Windows desktop for my day-to-day tasks is a huge pain as opposed to macOS or a Linux-based desktop OS.
You are right about some points, though what the original comment meant by compatibility is probably industry software.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
Well that’s a take
I mean, go off about it not competing, that’s some BS. But Linux doesn’t offer the compatibility and ease of use that Windows has on a day to day basis. There’s not really any argument to be made there.
Frustrating antipatterns, poor design decisions, poorly communicated reasons for functionality loss with updates (what this article is about), and settings requiring hoop jumping to touch aren’t unique to Windows and magically never present with Linux.
Linux is amazing, neccessary, and I sincerely hope it continues to grow as a valid competitor eventually taking over, but it’s still really rough in a lot of areas as a power user.
There are a handful of very user friendly distros for people who just need to do basic stuff on their computer and have it just work. Web browsing, document editing, even playing games that are just semi-popular (instead of only the most popular) all tend to work to a reasonable degree of “it just works” now.
There’s also an amazing amount of customizability and power placed in the hands of the user if they’re willing to dig into the guts of it. Run your own customized kernel with the specific patches you want, re-code part of a driver to meet your needs. Build an entire distro from source code up, piece by piece, exactly to your wishes. Compatability layers between different desktop environments. Mess with your drivers. It’s all open to mess with.
But what often gets left behind are people in the middle. I need a lot more than just basic functionality, and I have no fear about compiling stuff from code or making pull requests. I have the skills to make Linux work. What I don’t have is the time in my life to be digging in the guts regularly to get shit working on my computer, which is still far too often a requirement with Linux. Just look at discussions in the Linux communities here to see how absurd it can be to get a RDP or VNC client working, depending on your particular setup and graphics card.
It’s like the difference between getting a Honda Civic and working on a project car. You might need to change a tire, brake pads, change the oil on the Civic. You don’t need to mess with engine valve timings.
I really enjoy tinkering with Linux when I have the time, but most of my life I need my shit to just reliably work so I can get my shit done. I prefer my computer to be a tool far more than a project, and Linux is still too much of a project for a lot of people.
I would describe myself as firmly “in the middle”, and I honestly don’t disagree with your points overall. However, I think Windows isn’t really “easier to use” than most Linux distros, it’s just what most people are used to.
That doesn’t take away from your argument, as being familiar with an OS will make it easier to use and that’s completely valid, but someone who’s used Linux all their life would similarly face struggles using Windows. User inertia is a huge factor contributing to Windows’ marketshare.
I think a lot of people have a few killer apps that just don’t work on Linux even with WINE. Hell, I’ve heard that VR is not worth it on Linux. There are edge cases like that, that need to be sorted some way. Hopefully whatever Valve is doing wrt their supposed standalone VR headset helps there.
I think this is the real answer for those that have the knowledge on how to switch but dont. Windows steadily eroding the ability to customize its user experience is actually a driving factor in why a lot of us are getting over our familiarity bias and laziness to switch to Linux
This comment is simply wrong. Linux doesn’t compete with Windows desktop because it’s already ahead of it.
Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will.
Surely it doesn’t, the former is a good system, the latter is monopolistic shit supported by people with duckling syndrome and those who know no better.
EDIT:
does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
I hope you don’t mean those google-fu masters by “power users”, but otherwise this wouldn’t make any sense.
There’s a wide gulf between googlers and power users, and between power users and the “truly skilled”. I’m a Systems “Engineer” with nearly a decade experience in Tech Support, SysAdmin work, building custom system integrations/interop layers, and building custom automations.
Got no problem doing deep troubleshooting, compiling from source, finding issues in open source code bases, fixing them, submitting pull requests, etc.
Doesn’t mean I want to have to do all that regularly when I have other shit to get done.
Absolutely my experience too. Every once in a while I give Linux a chance on my personal desktop, only to find it working great… until it doesn’t for whatever reason and I’m left losing minutes to hours figuring out what and how it broke, browsing forums etc etc; usually to great frustration.
I simply cannot afford that kind of nonsense for my work devices. I regularly do and have used macOS for work for the best part of the last two decades and have never, not once, found the system broken or in a state that I needed to fix things after updates. That OS just works. Always. Of course you’ll find weird stuff happening in the Apple user forums as well, but in my personal experience Mac OS is rock solid out of the box whereas Linux can be rock solid if you want to invest a lot of time in it. And for work, I cannot.
I don’t invest a lot of time into Linux. At home or at work.
Windows at work is such PITA that even colleagues who are not very well with Linux prefer it for anything new.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux
I did. I was a heavy Windows customizer and deeply understand it as an operating system and target for application development. I left because, at some point, I realized the OS I (one way or another) paid for was treating me like a product instead of a user, and I resent that. I don’t like the feeling of slowly losing grip on the OS as it slides into becoming adtech tooling for marketing interests instead of the thing that runs programs for me. Despite my entrenched Windows knowledge, none of my primary personal computers run it anymore, including my gaming PC. Adaptation is a lot easier than most people expect, in my opinion.
yup
Dude, the fact I like I can customize windows is EXACTLY why I’m switching to linux now that Microsoft wants a piece of that apple pie
Power users are the exact people who would get the most benefit out of Linux, though. Speaking as one of them who got sick and tired of Windows’ bullshit. I’d argue Linux already very much competes with Windows, and has many advantages sourced from it being an open and not profit driven operating system.
Finally do I have an operating system that actually tries to work with me to get what I want, rather than tries to obstruct me every part of the way because “it knows best” or whatever windows tries to do.
Why is Microsoft trying to shoot itself in the foot once again? One of the big reasons I like Windows more than MacOS is the customizability. When your market share is declining, you shouldn’t add more reasons to switch to something else.
If you like customizability,vwhy not try Linux with KDE? It’s the definition of customizability.
Joke’s on you I have a desktop running KDE Neon
Seriously though, I’m not even that big into customizability, I just like having a taskbar with icons and some critical statuses (battery percentages anyone? Even Apple learned their lesson on that one.) on any side of the screen, and I like having good versatile touchpad gestures, achievable on GNOME with a couple extensions.
Currently needing to run Windows 11 on my laptop, not by choice basically by light force of wifi drivers as I need wifi for my daily workload and dumb MediaTek have not great Linux support, there is a small in works dkms GitHub repo but that’s it
Windows 11 development was led by the UI team that led Windows 8, and a team responsible for more of the internal Windows development was responsible for Windows 10. You can kind of tell by Windows 11 being an arbitrary UI change with numerous regressions.
What they are doing has that upside of being an indicator of “how many people are really held by the balls with MS hand”. MS “shoots itself in the foot” and Windows users just eat it, then it can do more.
When you are a monopolist (or a bully, or a robber baron), this makes sense.
Wow, now I’m really glad I switched to Linux. Windows? Never again.
Turns out they don’t like people disabling their adware.
I don’t get people reacting to Windows critique with that “there are scripts and tools to disable anything”, some even have the gall to compare it to how I use Linux.
When we are talking about adware and spyware right from the vendor, who has the figurative “make shit really mandatory” button. Who is all-powerful there.
Aaand another reason to stay with 10.
I give until 2027 for win 10 pc that cannot upgrade to become large botnet
Windows 10 is filled with shit decisions too. And it won’t be supported much longer anyway. If you want to keep using Windows, but not 11, it’s going to be advisable that you use it offline only.
You’re right on all counts.
And I am not happy about about any of this.
Of yeah, and then there is this: Microsoft’s draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025
Hope FTC does something before this deadline hits.
Amazing how Windows die-hards will go to literally any lengths not to switch to Linux.
The moment Adobe Creative Cloud works on Linux, I’ll switch. Until then I’ll have to stick with Windows.
- Microsoft blocks app with major security and performance concerns from Russian dev.
Fixed that headline for ya, big guy.
Hmm. Russia or Russian programmers were not in the article. The only reason was performance:
It is possible that Microsoft blocked those apps due to a higher number of crashes on build 26100, which is allegedly version 24H2 RTM build.
You realize you can get info from other sources right? Not just this one article?
Site your source
What? You can’t do simple research now?
Dev: https://msfn.org/board/profile/36858-tihiy/
Dyor. This is Lemmy, not reddit.
Regardless, always cite source
What’s your source on that? That you always have to cite source? Not a rule on lemmy.
Checked your comment history, you make many claims and cite no sources. So what is this really about?
Seems like you want to argue for the sake of arguing.
Good luck my bro
Thanks for the link, but I still do not see where it says “Microsoft blocked apps because of Russian dev.”
The dev says that it’s related to depreciated features, not the country of origin:
Well, this has to do with myriad feature flags around copilot and working area hacks MS is doing. But generally classic taskbar is dead code and 24H2 is going bring only degradations and pain.
I still can’t believe Linux only have 5% of OS market share
I can. Do you really think computer savvy people are the majority of computer users?
It’s painful that this needs to be mentioned, and that people will actively argue that it’s not true…
I can too. A lot of people don’t know Linux exists
The majority of desktop users are within organizations with people who administer all of the PCs. They use Windows server to do this, which is actually mind boggling, but they do it somehow. It would be easier to do it with Linux, but most admins are stuck with what tools that already have.
While that’s true but some DE nowadays make it easier for general consumer to install/using Linux as their main os, I think some people even scared of Linux and didn’t wanna touch it and that’s a shame
In either case, you still need to install a new OS, which is already a technical hurdle in itself, and know enough command line to fix things when they break/update packages, or to access things that might not have a UI.
Yeah, maybe someday Windows become so bad that people will do anything to get rid of it, I confess that I’m still using Windows 10 to play most of my games but I will ditch Windows once it reached EOL (I use Open SUSE for web browsing and documents editing and it’s been great so far)
There is nothing tech savy in linux, if you use the right distro. Moreover, mostly tech savy people customize their OS and not average users. If an user can install an app for customizing, then linux is no more different.
if you use the right distro
Exactly, a sad amount of people wouldn’t be able to install windows if they had to. They definitely won’t be finding the right distro then installing.
You say this.
But its just not true.
It took my of all of a day with Linux mint before she needed to open up a command line and do things.
I love Linux . i would kill for Linux. Have killed for linux. And wil kill again for Linux. What’s that, tux? Sudo for person in store; do “$festoon_the_walls_with_their_guts”? If [[ -e $police ]]; then -eval sudo_works_in_real_,life; find / -type “*god” -exec /platonic_root/deicide police surviving_bystanders news_crews: fi; done
You’re always looking out for me bud. Sure I’ll do it.
You don’t really need any skills to use modern Linux. I would argue that it’s easier to use than Windows for someone who has basic googling skills. Windows have an annoying habit of getting in the way of the user and making things much harder than they need to be. For example, needing to use the registry editor for basic configuration options.
No regular Joe will ever need to use regedit, you’re thinking with yourself as reference, the majority of computer users aren’t going to configure shit. They just get a computer with Windows installed and they start using it.
They are forced to use Windows, like me
My last two jobs require(d) me to run windows. At one, I spent 95% of my time in a Linux VM so it was more tolerable.
That’s a good option, only if you have a powerful PC. Mine is not enough powerful for WSL to run
Usually just VirtualBox VM’s – i’ve never touched WSL except for the original version way back in the 90’s I think.
I can’t even use virtual box at work, every time anyone downloads it, Oracle sics their licensing trolls at us, ignoring the fact that it’s free for all outside of the extension pack
I’m STILL pissed off that Oracle bought Sun
Are you guys installing the extension pack? That’s when the licensing weenies get to work. My old job ended up blocking oracle.com which was really fun for trying to read java docs. I would have to set up an ssh tunnel to my home server in order to download vbox release.
When i first started there, I did, just out of habit, but when i was approached about it, I removed it without hesitation… Never did download it or install it again, but every time i downloaded the main program, within a day I’d get someone saying Oracle was coming after us again and ultimately we just stopped allowing it altogether because having to deal with Oracle’s bullshit just wasn’t worth it, I’d rather pay VMware than deal with Oracle’s bullshit for a free product that they can’t figure out their own license for
Well… Now VMware is owned by Broadcom and is apparently being dismantled from the inside so i may be looking for a third option soon (that isn’t HyperV… It works fine but I’ve always found it hit or miss for Linux, which is like 100% of what I virtualize on my desktop)
in the 90’s
Woah. You’re off by a lot. WSL isn’t even 10 years old.
I was thinking of the earlier incantation called Windows Services for Unix.
I hate it when software requires incantations to run
While Mixrosoft produces questionable software, they are really good at ugly marketing strategies.
It is imo literally unbelievable that e.g. the EU is not enforcing an own OS (that the EU and not another country can control) on the EU members administrations and militaries. Microsoft is good with stuff like this.
The volumes of cash that Microsoft throw at retailers (custom builders / big box) is astronomical. Worked for a relatively small retailer with some international buying power. EOFY “MDF” from Microsoft was an absurd figure.
Our builders would belt out 3 - 6 machines per day, depending on complexity of the custom build, the pre-built machines were in the 6+ per day range.
Considering the vast majority of those machines were running windows (some sold without an os), from a quick estimate after too many beers we were out of pocket 10% at most of the bulk buy price for licence keys after our “market development funds” came through.
It’s fucking crook.
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The irony is that people create these tools mostly because they’re frustrated by the limited customisation options provided by default. If Microsoft ever listens to feedback, it’s quite limited, and it takes ages for the new stuff get implemented; moreover very often you just about get used to something and the rug gets pulled from under your feet.
It’s insane that they can’t display the same identical task bar on 2 screens 20+ years after enabling support for multiple displays. It’s frustrating to no end having to look for stuff all over the place.
The lack of a small taskbar mode was all it took for me to never upgrade. Just shows MS doesn’t care about its users.
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I can’t use win11 without explorerpatcher, if it stops working I won’t know what to do
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