- cross-posted to:
- assholedesign
- cross-posted to:
- assholedesign
If they were interested in my location they could request location data. What are the odds they are doing this to directly market products to people based on health data?
Inb4 “They already do that based on what you regularly purchase”
Of course, yes they do. This appears to be one more layer on top of it. And surely they wouldn’t share that information with the pharmacy, right?
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Words cannot express how much I hate phone apps being normalized for every goddamn thing.
It makes you wonder why Google pursues initiatives like Web Environment “Integrity”, given that proprietary mobile apps for the most part have already completed the hatchet job on user agency and privacy.
My work place has an app to open the front door. I refuse to use it and will continue to inconvenience myself by using my key.
I hate contemporary software norms.
I hate that people just install apps for whatever now. A fucking grocery store app on the phone? What code could the grocery store possibly need to run on my device? For online grocery shopping, just use their website.
There are zero retail store apps on my phones. I don’t need any store’s app. I get all the discounts I need via the web and paper coupons in the mail.
I get all the discounts I need via the web and paper coupons in the mail.
Well, you wouldn’t get Jewel’s discounts at all then. I stopped shopping there because they switched to app coupons but not everyone has multiple grocery store options
I’ve never heard of a Jewel’s grocery store before, so nothing of value is lost to me.
I’m just explaining why someone would have a grocery app installed, not trying to talk you into shopping there. They’ve made the store worse in many ways beyond app coupons. Like getting rid of most of generics
Generally, I agree. However, websites run like shit when you don’t have great service, say like inside the store and they have no wifi. App runs a lot smoother.
Why would I do such a thing if I were in the store? Might see if another store nearby has what I’m looking for if they don’t have it. Might be checking to see what aisle something is on because I’ve spent 10 minutes trying to find it on my own and I’m frustrated as hell because I know they have it cause I bough to last time I was there.
Another reason is because the website is less functional than their mobile website. So if I want to browse sales and make a shopping list while on the couch, it’s far easier to use the app than their website. And a lot of places focus more on apps than mobile websites so this is just going to get more common.
Though, truth be told. IDK why I ended up getting their app. I really, really, really hate being forced to get apps to do things. Lots of digital tickets are going to app only now: Ticketmaster, airlines, etc. Last time I went to Arby’s they had a sign in the drive thru saying to go to their website to look at coupons. Which then told me to go to their app to see them. Nope, you can fuck off.
I’ve never had any of those problems. Apps are not smoother than the web in general, they just are probably better at hiding latency and content loading process.
Also when I’m inside a grocery store, I don’t need an app or the website to find things since I can just walk over to them or ask an employee where the product is.
The thing about “general” is that means there are exceptions. Also, I pretty much never see employees walking around the store.
Our local grocery store chain lets you set up both pick up and delivery orders by selecting items, scheduling, and payment in the app; which is really just a wrapped website. While this might not be your use case; it’s certainly something that can be useful for people that are willing to pay an upcharge for convenience and/or time savings.
Why not just use their website instead of installing their code on your device? If they are competent their website should have all the above features.
Cause I’d rather open an app then deal with an extra browser tab every time I want to use the site.
An open app simply is another type of browser tab, in my books. From a ‘screen cruft’ perspective I consider them roughly equivalent. At any rate it’s an interesting aspect of software design psychology…
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“I have sacrificed my privacy for a minor convenience” is another way you could have said that.
How do I sacrifice my privacy by installing an app?
You’d rather have an OS tab than a browser tab?
Are you sure this makes sense?
Yes I find it convenient to press a tile on my home page and have it take me to an app instead of opening a tab in my browser. I’m not sure how this is undesirable.
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They want to use your gyroscope to synchronize your movement within the store with their mapping of what products are on which shelves.
Historically this has been done by offering free in-store Wi-Fi and then triangulating the movement of cell phones within the store based on their signal strength from the perspective of the various Wi-Fi access point supporting the store’s network, but a gyroscope will even tell them if you crouch down or turn around.
That sounds pretty plausible I’ll give you that, and strictly speaking in iOS if they were gathering BMI and that type of data it would come up as a request for “Health”
So with that said to purpose would this information serve them given the way you described it? And is there any guarantee that it wouldn’t also be used to further build their marketing profile? Not trying to be argumentative, you have me genuinely curious now.
Nah, fuck em. Even the less sophisticated Wi-Fi approach is skeevy as fuck. I should just trust that the will only do what they say when given more than they need? Absolutely not. They might, but I wouldn’t rely on it.
You know, I almost thought for a minute there was going to be a chance there was something cool behind it, like, “it can guide you to the exact location of a product that you’re looking for with x,y,z precision such as how AirTags work” or, “they look at data to optimize placement of items in the store to make it easier for people to find things efficiently” but it’s actually just another degree of shittyness. That stinks.
yeh that’s typically not how stores work. they want you in there as long as possible so you buy more stuff. (which is why the milk is in the back)
hardware stores usually have the aisle number on their website beforehand but it’s still up to you to find the most efficient route through the store inbetween your purchases.
At least where I’ve lived, Home Depot’s interiors are mapped out on Google Maps. I’ve always appreciated that.
but can you go online and make a shopping list and it will route you through the store? some stores tried that but it was too efficient for the customer
Well, not exactly. There’s no GPS equivalent to my knowledge. However, you can get an aisle and even bay number for a product from the website and use that to manually navigate to exactly the area you need. If I know what item I want in advance, I never spend more than a few minutes shopping in a Home Depot (and I think Lowe’s does the same) as opposed to other shops with less efficient guidance.
It does seem very efficient, but could certainly be better.
Sorry to dissappoint.
As for purpose, it is just a higher fidelity, deeper hook into measuring you as a consumer.
I wish we had away to set up devices so they never need the WiFi handshake paradigm. Something like rolling code encryption for home and desired connection points while the device and home access point drop all that are not in sync and masquerade as a thousand others.
Not that it would make a difference when the hardware for the SoC and modem are undocumented, untrusted, and user space info is irrelevant to the actual hardware function. We can’t even turn off our devices any more in the Orwellian dystopia Osama bin Laden used to win the fight against freedom, liberty, and democracy.
Both wifi and Bluetooth has better anonymity options now via randomized client IDs, etc, but yeah I’d also like to see even better protocols.
Instead of just using antenna arrays for MIMO to maximize throughput you could instead use the arrays to reduce the signal strength for most traffic below the noise floor (like GPS) to make tracking much much harder. But it does add a lot of complexity too, and would probably be bad for batteries (the receiving end needs more power).
Is turning off WiFi sufficient in Android to stop my phone’s scanning attempts?
The relevant permissions for these kinds of apps can still trigger background scans for wifi and Bluetooth even when turned off (except in airplane mode). You have to deny the permission to access location, etc, to prevent that.
Bluetooth as well, even if you don’t connect, you’re showing up as a ping.
Easy to tie that to your rewards card at checkout, then they know who the Bluetooth signal belongs too.
Inb4 “They already do that based on what you regularly purchase”
It’s never enough data for them.
I think the reason is likely their “Sincerly Health” program. Why anyone would trust their grocery store with any of their Health Data is beyond me though.
Apparently they consider me a security risk. Can’t fault them, to be honest.
I guess Jewel Osco is not into vegan cheesecake. A shame, because I think you’re delicious!
Thanks, darling. Though I gotta admit I had some pretty mediocre versions of, well, me, so I guess I’m hit or miss.
Everyone has the potential for improvement and you’re just getting better with time <3
Lots of grocery stores have pharmacies. I wonder if health data collected through the app would be protected by HIPPA…
At least the pharmacies in our grocery stores are separate companies and usually just outside the store.
The ones I’m thinking of are inside the store and owned by the same corporation.
Do you pay in a different place? If so I would guess it’s technically a different company.
The pharmacy can ring up anything from the grocery store. And you can pay for OTC drugs at the grocery checkout instead of the pharmacy checkout. It’s the same store…
Okay but do OTC drugs handle HIPPA data? I thought that was only prescription drugs.
If that is indeed the case then why are you bringing up OTC drugs?
I brought up OTC drugs to help make my point that the pharmacy and grocery store are the same.
Is it so that if you’re fat they can send you ads for sugary snacks? Cause they know you can’t resist. Healthy people get veggie ads, unhealthy people get snacks.
Yes
Gotta know your whales.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1473/
Surge pricing. If your BMI is high they charge more for Pringles.
Don’t even suggest it. /s
Removed by mod
I so quickly and naturally clicked “Don’t allow” on my screen and realized a second later that this was a post. I think that’s more of a bad thing than a good thing.
“Hey fatty, come get your icecream you big fat fuck. We reduced it by a dollar so get ten of them and eat until you feel sick, you disgusting whale.”
Jewel, I’ll give you my fitness data when you clean up whatever has been reeking in the potato aisle for the last 3 months. What a trash ass grocery store.
Most potato salads and coleslaws are past the best use by date on the norm at mine
Inb4 “They already do that based on what you regularly purchase”
People who make this argument piss me off so much. Yeah, my privacy is already almost entirely eroded away. Why on Earth would I decide to let the rest of it go? Sure, Google knows where I live. I guess that’s good enough reason to tell you motherfuckers that my address is 7473 W 47th St S, Wichita, KS, 67215. I mean if the data is already out there, what point is there in trying to obfuscate it?
7473 W 47th St S, Wichita, KS, 67215.
Thanks for sharing. Looks like you live in a pretty dry place with few neighbours?
This is specifically the permission to track your movement, not your BMI or other health data. It’s to turn your iPhone into a step counter. Probably something they use when you are in the store to help you find items?
Weird how everyone is being upset at this and didn’t check what this permission does before piling on.
This comment feels pretty derogatory to me. We know that, and if you had bothered to read the thread before coming in and making assumptions you’d have seen that. You’re missing the point. An enormous amount of information can be inferred by knowing your activity and fitness levels. This guy is on his feet 14 hours a day? Here’s a coupon for some shoe inserts. This guy spent 5 minutes pacing back and forth down the candy isle and didn’t buy anything? We need to give him a nudge to make that purchase. This person does yoga every morning and only buys organic produce? Well, they probably don’t shop at Jewel honestly but hey did you know we carry aluminum free deodorant in the health department? Your motion and fitness data can absolutely be used to infer a general level of healthiness, which is often times (and often incorrectly) also summarized as your BMI.
It was also wisely mentioned elsewhere in the thread that targeting advertising is only the tip of the iceberg as far as what can be done with the profiles these companies build about us. But none of that exactly fits very well into a title for a post.
An enormous amount of information can be inferred by knowing your activity and fitness levels.
No, it’s just step count and elevation, to provide more accurate details about your workout.
So you’re making shit up to be upset about and can’t even be bothered to look up what it means, but the real problem is me being derogatory. Got it.
Because people need something to be enraged about 24/7. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t plenty out there to be frustrated or upset about, but it’s just one more thing to add to the pile.
Also, fact checking. Nah let’s just scream into the void about stuff we know nothing about nor can we be bothered to actually check what is happening.
The walmart app does this. If im in a store and want to find what isle it’s in, I’ll pull it up, and it’ll know what store I’m in.
I would delete the app just because they tried
Some people are in for a rude awakening if they think that the slight nuisance of “being shown targeted ads” is the biggest issue with dragnet data collection.
