- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
PeerTube is fantastic with its decentralized model that prioritizes user privacy and control. However, it still struggles to gain widespread popularity.
What do you think could be done to enhance PeerTube’s appeal and functionality, possibly even becoming a serious alternative to YouTube?
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Content. I’m there for the content, not the platform.
Who is on PeerTube that we should be watching?
How often are watch-worthy videos on PeerTube posted on Lemmy?
I’ve seen one or two interesting videos posted to Lemmy from PeerTube in the ~6 months I’ve been here. I think both were from someone called Linux Mom or something like that and I’m not sure but it looked like they weren’t posted by her but by someone else uploading her videos from YouTube to the service. One video was her showing how to use a device to backup old game cartridges and the other was a video for Linux beginners.
That’s about all I’ve seen that grabbed my attention, and the second was only because I liked the creator from the first. But again, I don’t know if it was an official upload that she supported, and if it wasn’t that’s not a good way to attract creators.
that might be me. Ive been pushing as much as possible on /c/video peertube stuff. Whenever I find it.
One of the best and worst things about peertube is that the suggested videos side of things that youtube has isnt a thing. You can search based on hashtags but getting the same fix like youtube is very hard. Its also good in that most creators that are on their are really interesting/dedicated to their craft. And copyright isnt really a thing on peertube, so music/videos/etc…are a LOT better. At least for a time.
This is probably the video? https://lemmy.world/post/15969866?scrollToComments=true
[email protected] now has her own peertube instance: https://tinkerbetter.tube/videos/local
Copyright absolutely is still a thing, the network is just under the radar at the moment and the people who could be suing over it don’t have visibility on usage of their stuff. But, make no mistake, if it ever gets big enough to get noticed, those people and corporations will absolutely sue.
You are correct, I guess what I mean is that its not being enforced all that much.
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There’s great biking and transit content from Canada at Peertube instance video.canadiancivil.com
There’s a webpage for that https://ideas.joinpeertube.org/ Top 5 are:
- Share channel administration between several users (103 votes)
- “Audio only” video quality (91 votes)
- Mobile phone client (91 votes)
- Allow third parties to contribute bandwidth (89 votes)
- Support multilingual videos (67 votes)
Feel free to vote or add more ideas.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but since a lot of creators rely on youtube’s monetization, it might be necessary for peertube to impement some form of monetization too.
Yeah, if you have that you can get parallel uploads and streams. Also you get tutorials and pretty much all content.
I mean a large problem with services like Lemmy Mastodon and peer tube is that they’re complicated. There’s a learning curve require that I don’t have to have if I go to a place like YouTube or any other video site. Peertube requires me to learn about servers and other things in order to fully utilize their service and that’s a massive barrier to the public. Currently it’s preventing me because I just frankly don’t have time to go learn about more technological Concepts to best use a service.
Don’t get me wrong it’s not a dig at the services. They are excellent and I’m glad they’re here and one day I will figure out peertube but until these sites are as easy to use as going to a link and just doing whatever the person wants to do if they’re just not going to take off. Places like limmy and Mastodon and even peertube need a centralized portal so that is just super easy to start.
I’ve yet to get peertube working and I … just don’t care to take the time to figure it out. If it doesn’t work on mobile easily it won’t take off. And this is coming from a nerd.
Same, I’ve resorted to blocking the peertube link bot because I was tired of trying and it not working. It had its chance to make a good impression, it failed 🤷
This is absolutely a thing. I barely got onto Lemmy in the first place because having to choose a server is such a barrier to entry. Having to pick a community when you don’t even know what the service is like yet is a major turn off for some people, myself included.
Right I forgot about that. That’s also a thing with Mastodon. I think in decentralized Services need to push that there are each other so it doesn’t matter which one that you end up going with. That’s at least what drove me to get on let me in the first place cuz I know that whatever instance I would get on would allow me to participate with everybody else the same way you and me are on different instances right now.
Yeah that made it feel better once I knew that too. It just needs to be made optional I think, in the sense that there should be a “give me a random server with good ping and stats” kind of thing maybe.
Right? I have been thinking how someone could build something like that. I would love to try my hand at a landing page like that
Content, monetization, and ubiquity.
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Content: PT skews heavily into Linux and Linux adjacent topics. And that’s fine, but when I say I watch more YT than regular TV, I’m not kidding. And its because of the diversity and variety of channels. Things like History Hit or Every Frame a Painting, and silly shit like Red Letter Media. YouTube isn’t just “let’s plays” and game streaming. So Peertube can’t be “Just Linux”
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Monetization: Creators have to get paid. That’s just reality. It would be a fine world if everyone could spend hours doing their passion for free and not have to worry about deeding themselves. If you want #1, you need a certain amount if full time creators, and for that they need to get paid.
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Ubiquity: Watching more YouTube than regular TV, I don’t want to sit in front of my computer to do it. We need to be able to access it from smart TVs, ROKU sticks, etc… And not just a port of the website that requires a mouse and keyboard, but something optimized to work with smart TV remote controls.
The issue with the Fediverse (not that I don’t love the fediverse, I do) is that all of those three things require large scale framework and organisational planning; which is the antithesis to what the Fediverse is all about.
Tl;Dr – Large scale success of PeerTube as a thing is largely impossible without abandoning the concept of federation itself.
Why does PT have to be a place that creators get paid? Yes, that is essential if we want peertube to TAKE OVER THE WORLD. But what is wrong with providing a platform that ISN’T driven by content revenue along side YouTube? Those creators have needs that aren’t being catered to elsewhere.
Ok, show us all the free PT content you’ve made without getting paid. What’s that, you can’t pay your rent with PeerTube views, you need a real job you say? Well that’s why there’s no content, creators need to eat too.
I mean it’s not hard to find my PT server with my content on it. And yeah, NO ONE IS EVERY GOING TO PAY TO SEE MY CONTENT. That’s kind of my point. There’s millions of people producing content THAT IS NOT COMMERCIALLY VIABLE, and they do this even though it doesn’t pay the rent. Like, I honestly don’t even know what your point is except to deny reality.
He’s answering the question of why it’s not more popular. And he’s right.
Then expect Peertube to be more niche as no one wants to post to it.
okay? it’s meeting my use cases, tell me why I care?
The discussion is on how to get more people to use it.
Nothing is wrong with that at all. But you’re never going to get enough content to increase your total subscriber base as long as your creators have to spend most of their time working other jobs.
What if I’m not manufacturing content, what if I just have things I want to say? Why can’t we have one fucking platform that isn’t monetized?
Sure. Absolutely.
But that’s not what this thread is about and that isn’t what I was replying to. If you want to start a thread saying “Why PeerTube doesn’t need to grow to be a great place.” knock yourself out. I agree with you.
But this thread specifically is about, and I quote…
…possibly even becoming a serious alternative to YouTube?
And for that, you need monetization.
Stay on topic.
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Personally? Onboarding.
I’ve looked at the instructions on how to install peertube several times now, but its just not worth the hassle at this point. Until I can run it in just a single docker image, without an external database or email service required, then I’m not going to bother.
Its really frustrating, because I really like the project, but I just don’t have the ability to use services like it without docker or podman.
That’s not going to happen. At least as I see it. They pretty much follow best pratices. Lots of webapps use a database, redis, a reverse proxy and sometimes they’re able to send out mails. That’s exactly what’s happening with Peertube, too. And splitting it allows for customizability, different setups, you can maintain one part of it at a time or keep them updated. And not everyone needs to reinvent databases, they regularly better use the official postgres container. Docker is a container platform. If you merge everything together into one large thing, that’d be more a classic install without containers and everything runs on the same OS.
And they let you do that. There are packages for like 3 distros: https://docs.joinpeertube.org/install/unofficial
Or you need docker-compose and it becomes easy to manage the 3 or so containers. But it’s exactly the same for Peertube as it was for all the other services I installed on my server.
Napster only required one app. I don’t see how forcing everyone to use three apps together helps with adoption.
Isn’t Napster a desktop app for streaming? That’s a very different kind of software. Peertube needs to provide content to several people, make it accessible to potentially the whole internet. It connects you with hundreds of other instances and hundreds of thousands of other videos, accounts and comments. All of that needs to be organized, handled and stored somehow. There is just no way around a proper setup. I mean you also can’t build an entire house with just your trusty Honda Accord and a cordless drill at your disposal. You need professional tools for that. And sure, you can build a dog shed with that. But it doesn’t really help discussing “adoptability” of houses if they were to be constructed with just a cordless drill, if physics doesn’t allow for that… The answer is to just use docker-compose in this case. It’s easy to use and does the proper set up.
I’m talking about the original Napster, which would function shockingly close to how PeerTube presents itself. The only thing missing from there original Napster would be a media player.
If that can be done in the 1990’s, there doesn’t seem to be a reason why it can’t be done today.
I think we had several of those. I remember a few other projects that did some peer2peer content delivery and streaming. I’m not sure. Usually with those, people start complaining that it’s “too complicated” because they need to install some software just to watch a video. Or they want to watch it on their phones and that’s kind of impossible with p2p without draining the battery real fast. Or they’re used to videos playing almost instantly (from using YouTube) and now it needs to buffer (more than) a few seconds for less common or trending videos and that’s inconvenient, too.
And the crowd on the internet and usage patterns have really changed over the last decades.
for end users too. the federated model can get a bit confusing at first and can use some onboarding.
i think all the issues can be surmounted if they find a way to pay creators like youtube does.
A lot of niche YouTubers say that they get most of their revenue from patreon and other sites like that so it seems like there’s already existing avenues to post videos and get paid via a different site
Yeah, it’s not about monetization. I think for content creators the biggest limiting factor is the user base. If you make a video but nobody sees it then what’s the point of making a video? You want people watching your creations and the more users a site has the more likely you’re going to have people watching your video. So a real suggestion would be something like video visibility which is kind of a hit or miss on Youtube since the magical Youtube algorithm pretty much throws only clickbait.
maybe we can somehow encourage creators to post to both in a why not kind of way, until peertube has critical mass?
Money for creators
The idea of PT being able to compete and differentiate itself from Google to content creators by paying them money is ridiculous. You’re attempting to attack the main strength of the competition, and they are way, way, way, WAY better at it than you are. It’s fucking doomed from the start. You have to play to your strengths, and manufacturing commercial content for revenue is just not what PeerTube’s design is even intended for.
Ten years ago you could have made an exciting pitch involving a block chain that pays hosters and content creators but now we can see how stupid that is. Well it doesn’t get less stupid without the blockchain.
From what I watch on YouTube, the best content isn’t monetizable… pretty much every creator I like relies almost completely on Patreon and merch.
I think the most important thing is having a good experience. First of all there doesn’t seem to be a good hub for peertube. I don’t exactly understand how it works and i assumed it would work like Lemmy, like hop on anywhere and you’ll find videos from all over but that didn’t seem to be the case in the few peertube pages I found.
They look like shit, like someone’s personal web 1.0 page from late 90s, and has an extremely limited video collection from like a single person. idk if I’ve done it wrong; let me know…
It’s the experience. For all its faults, YouTube has an easy url and app, it pushes videos on people so even if you don’t have an account you can experience it passively (which I’m sure not something people here would want but requiring the user to be proactive is a barrier to entry which severely limits popularity which disincentivizes content creators) and while everyone shits on its UI it’s centuries ahead of any peertube site I’ve seen (admittedly i haven’t seen many but after a few very disappointing ones i just stopped looking).
Along with the other things posted here, it would be nice if peertube had a landing page or even if there was a “watch peertube now” button that led to a page showcasing current popular videos or something.
I clicked your link to peertube.org, then had to “Ask Sepia, our iconic cuttlefish” for a search term to get a list of videos, which after scrolling for a bit moved into lists and channels. A click of the “show more videos” button opened a new tab, and upon clicking a video to watch yet another tab opened to what seems like a fediverse instance for peertube?
For it to be a viable alternative, it needs to capture the way people watch and engage with youtube. If I am watching a video on youtube, there are suggestions for similar content below. If I go to the home page and scroll, either the most popular content will show if I am not signed in, or if I am, content related to videos I watch will be shown.
If I click to watch a video, it will open in the same window.
This is the sort of usability that will entice those new users to make the leap.
Yeah YouTube shorts is like smoking crack (I don’t do Tik-Tok), when compared to your experience of Peertube, yours, metaphorically, seems more like teenagers trying to roll a joint of nutmeg,
They definitely are like crack for a lot of people, I use a youtube front end when I can, and when it’s down a browser addon to remove them.
My daughter is 18 and just a couple months ago started doing the same, after realising shorts were almost an addiction.
Another friend has admitted she cannot stop watching them but so far hasn’t done anything about it.
Oh yeah, I’m over thirty and have had and seen a few addictions.
I stayed away from the shorts and tiktoks for a long time, now I’ve been watching the shorts. It’ll just suck hours.
Kinda like this
Data streaming costs have to be better addressed. How does the bill get paid? It’s really that simply.
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Isn’t the entire point of federation to be able to do what you’re describing?
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I think the following has a good chance of working:
- YouTube does another fucky thing and messes with people’s revenue. Again.
- Some big YouTuber decides to host their own peertube instance (funded by patreon) for their content. Either on its own or as a “backup”.
- People go there, and other YouTubers follow seeing that it doesn’t have YouTube fuckery. Either to the same instance or another.
- YouTube continues to make unpopular decisions, meaning more and more people go to Peertube and it becomes engrained in public knowledge.
Basically, “YouTube fucks up a bunch enough for people to try to move”.
More peers.
Which can only really be addressed by making it easier / less of a hassle to become a peer.
I for one would love to host a peertube instance, but I keep running into a wall when I try.
We need to make it more profitable to post on peertube than to post on yt.
That’s probably impossible, since there are no ads on PeerTube. There’s nothing keeping content creators from using YouTube AND PeerTube though.
Yes, do both platforms, and also we’ve already figured out that the patron model works. If enough people like something, some will pay to support the creator.
That fact doesn’t grow peertube right now, but I think it means we don’t actually need to monetise peertube directly.
That would mean that some walk away from YouTube. Thus shrinking the ad revenue.
It’s a problem.
Yes and no. If you are solely earning money on ads, but there are also users who just doesn’t use YT or at least use something like Invidius. No ad revenue from these users.
I also believe that most content creators earn money by donations and sponsorships.
I think if we do a crypto based pay per gb for generalised data delivery we could do it.
Adding crypto is just adding another layer of complexity imho.
An integration with Liberapay would be in the right direction, I think.
