I got my hearing professionally checked today and all is normal. But I have difficulty hearing people I am dining with, talking in restaurants. Is it me, or is the music just too damn loud?!
It’s to encourage you to eat faster and leave, so your table is available for the next victim.
This is it. It’s why seats/stools look nice but feel uncomfortable after 20 or so minutes.
I remember seeing this on the news a few years ago. If I remember right, they were interviewing a design firm that does interior design for fast food and fast casual restaurants, and they were talking about all of this. I was really surprised at how candid they were being, since you would think that they would want this to be an industry secret.
The high stools with no back, the music that is too loud, the lights that are a little too bright and kind of hanging down in your field of view: all intentional, so that you’re just ever so slightly uncomfortable and you leave a few minutes sooner.
- Create environment actively hostile to remain in for long periods of time
- Expect people to work and be productive in said environment for hours on end
Explains why I don’t like eating out and never cared for paying for stuff like the ambiance even at fancy restaurants and prefer take out.
Take out sadly still covers the ambiance
Don’t they realize that once people leave such a place, they’re never coming back? There are only so many locals in a given area. Unless the place is a tourist trap this seems like a shitty idea for long term business.
If the food is amazing, then people will come back. The point is to make the location slightly uncomfortable enough that people want to leave sooner, not that they hate the place. The idea is you need to balance cost of food, and customer turn around time. If you make it very expensive, people won’t feel comfortable taking the food to go, even if it is an amazing item. On the flip side, a cheap menu that is very comfortable will be overly cost prohibitive.
As a person with digestive problems that lead to hemorrhoids, this one in particular feels like a big fuck you.
I have ADHD and I find I have lots of difficulties with auditory processing in high noise floor situations. Also got my hearing checked because I couldn’t understand people in loud spaces. Turns out ADHD brains just don’t handle processing all that noise well. If I understand it correctly it’s because we need to process everything at the same level instead of some things being easy to leave on autopilot. Might not be your case but it sounded familiar so, that’s my two bits.
Wow this sounds so familiar. I need to learn more. Any resources you could recommend?
https://screening.mhanational.org/screening-tools/adhd/ This seems like a useful test to me for getting a better idea if you should talk to a psychiatrist or not. It’s ups and downs getting diagnosed, especially as an adult. I had one psychiatrist give me their full test and questionnaire and decided I was borderline but wouldn’t diagnose me or prescribe anything, (I was already on a med that helped but not any of the controlled ones) The next psychiatrist I went to a few years later didn’t even have me do the test, we had an in person appointment, (which I was late to) and after we’d talked for about 20 minutes I asked “so, when do we schedule the ADHD assessment?” He said “Oh, no, we don’t need to do one, you very clearly have ADHD.” XD Honestly though I learned more about it from the experiences of people on social media who had it than I ever learned from a doctor. I’d start with searching ADHD hashtags and see if you resonate with other people’s experiences.
Thank you.
Since you mentioned you got your hearing checked and everything is okay… Auditory Processing Disorder is a pretty common neurodivergence with a lot of overlap with ADHD/OCD/depression/anxiety/et al. It’s common with any or all of the others, but it shows up in neurotypical people too.
I’m ADHD and have APD as well :)
I’m on the same camp as you and also undiagnosed. I’ve suspected some form of autism but didn’t think ADHD could be my thing
Hey there I replied to the person that replied to you but I think that comment may be of value to you. https://reddthat.com/comment/12415216
And FWIW, there is only one kind of autism. ;)
Thanks!
I hadn’t taken those tests before. The raads-r gave me 98 the first time and 105 the second. I found the questions even more infuriating than other tests as there is no frame of reference for most questions, or questions are too ambiguous. Results were the same though- “you sit on the threshold”.
The cat-q was interesting. I scored 115 which apparently would be pretty high for a neurotypical female. Not sure what to make of that.
So I’m not a doctor but as I understand it, CAT-Q effectively is a booster for the RAADS-R. A lot of the RAADS-R is either understanding or recognizing the symptoms of autism, but people who are high masking (aka “camouflaged”) have often learned to hide/not notice their autistic traits. Reminder of course, the “A” in CAT-Q means “autistic”.
That said, I think 100+ on RAADS-R before a fairly high CAT-Q is something worth considering alone.
I have a special interest in psychology and if this was something related to a mental health condition I would be the first to tell you that the best way to learn is peer-reviewed studies, published references like the DSM-5 (imperfect as it may be) and so on. However, autism is not a psychological issue, it’s a neurological difference. This means that the best way to learn is to talk to autistic people (which you currently are!) and see if the little things that make you/them “weird” resonate with each other. If you’re feeling more introverted than that, you could maybe find an autistic YouTuber that “clicks” with you and see how their experience compares to yours.
I’m currently on an autism diagnosis waiting list cuz there’s just not that many adult autism services in my area so maybe it might be that too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
FWIW if you’re 18+ there is less reason to get formally diagnosed. University of Washington did a study some time ago which found self diagnosis is rarely wrong. Link to that PDF here: https://depts.washington.edu/uwautism/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Self-Diagnosed-Adult-Autism-Resources-handout-9-22-22.pdf
A good way to find out is a combination of a couple tests. The RAADS-R is the most accurate known autism test, is is over 80% accurate. Here is a free one that doesn’t require registration: https://embrace-autism.com/raads-r/
And if you doubt you’re autistic in any way (guessing based on wanting to be diagnosed), the CAT-Q is a good test to identify camouflaged autistic traits that you’ve learned to hide. This one is also free from the same place: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/
Feel free to ask if you have questions. I’m late diagnosed myself (was over 30) and it’s a big world to navigate blindly!
Thanks!
So you’re basically saying we’re doing manual processing of the output stream instead of using pipewires inbuilt filters, like in the PulseAudio days?
I just don’t go to restaurants/bars with loud music anymore because of this. Buying beer and snacks somewhere else and sitting in public parks with my friends is better and much cheaper.
That was one of my biggest revelations last year. Figuring out I have ADHD and that’s why it’s hard for me to understand people, especially in crowded and loud spaces. Sometimes I found myself simultaneously listening to music, other people’s conversations and my own conversations. Makes it quite difficult sometimes.
Same here, stimulant meds help a lot with it. I also have troubles understanding lyrics in songs. English isn’t my first language and I really thought that I just don’t understand this accents. Turns out that I can understand the lyrics way better when on meds, without it just sounds jibberisch - I can hear the syllables but they don’t make any sense.
That! My Boo has the hardest time figuring out if I’ve listened to a song or not because he tells me the name of the song and the artist and I go “I don’t fucking know dude”, so he tells me some of the lyrics, and I go ¯\(◉‿◉)/¯, so he plays me the song and within the first two notes I’m like “oh yeah I’ve heard this a billion times” 🤦♀️
Apparently, these restaurants want to make your dining experience unpleasant, so you won’t linger over your meal. The sooner you leave, the sooner they can replace you with another paying customer. You probably shouldn’t give these places your business.
exactly, hence why coffee shops in particular play the same three obnoxious Christmas songs on repeat during the season. They don’t want you to stay, they want you pay and leave.
I will say that this tactic is just forcing people to invest in better headphones, but I lament that we’re now in an auditory arms race for merely existing in a public space
“Simply . . . Having . . . a Wonderful Christmas Time!”
/sorry
At one restaurant this week a woman was playing and watching a video on her phone very loudly, oblivious to bothering everyone, and a foodworker came and asked her to turn it down. The woman replied, “You can here THAT?!” She turned it down and the foodworker went back to her station screaming orders are ready out to other customers. The video-watcher proceeded to walk around and stand near people’s tables to watch her video.
What is going on with this world?I think the world has become decidedly louder, and people having TV on in the background all day every day has desensitized them to the idea that sound travels further than they think. I genuinely believe her surprise that she could be heard.
This could be solved by a system of reservations. You know… “Ok, one coffee and a sandwich. You have three seating choices: 15 minutes, 30 minutes and 1 hour. Which one do you want? 30 minutes? Ok! Here’s your hourglass.”
everyone would pick the 4 hour sofa slot though
Those scenarios can be solved. From “4-hour sofa slots are reserved for groups of three or more people” to “Sofas are reserved to 1-hour max.”
In the end, as it is now, people are overstaying anyway.
Let them. Either provide public spaces for people to just chill, or let them spend the entire day at a coffee shop after buying a coffee.
I’m sick of this “pay-to-live” society we’ve built around us.
I… actually agree with you. It would be nice to have a cozy indoors public space. Sort of like an “indoors park.” But you’ll have to yell at your city hall reps, not a small business owner who, like us, also has to make a living.
If the city provided a nice public space, I would happily just buy a coffee to go and then to chill there
So they’re all gone and isn’t an option til someone leaves, first come first served.
“Hey homeless guy, I’ll pay you 10 dollars if you get in line early at this store and claim the 4 hour sofa until my friends come a few hours later.”
That’s what I have done. Entered and then walked right out without ordering anything.
Tile or concrete floors, hard surface walls, glass windows all reflect sound. As people start talking, if they are drinking they get louder, so then each table is trying to talk over the tables around them. Without acoustic damping, it can get pretty loud.
That’s a big part of it, but some people are just loud and some restaurants just play their music way too loud all the time.
Some bosses want to make sure you can hear the music at a decent volume at the back tables. Meanwhile the front tables:
This is exactly why during my solo shift I turn off the music completely. I want silence. Beautiful, delicious silence.
Bless you my sweet baby child.
Hmm. Processing disorders are a thing.
Some restaurants do have damn loud music, though. Most don’t where I live but that’s probably regional.
Everyone keeps mentioning them, but no one links to the information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_processing_disorder
One of potential symptoms is indeed “Difficulty hearing in noisy environments”
I have a nice workaround: good earplugs. They lower the overall volume, and all of a sudden I can understand spoken words again. Too bad they actually increase for me the sound of my own chewing.
My work was evacuated once for a fire alarm (false) and we all kinda stood around waiting for the firemen to come and let us back in. While we waited we chatted. But I realised that I couldn’t understand what the people four feet away from me were saying. I could hear the noises coming from their mouths, but I couldn’t understand them. When the alarm was switched off, I could understand them.
Brain is weird.
Weird and impressive!
The article for this condition in German Wikipedia mentions that there’s a training which can help, but I have not looked into this yet
Thank you. I would have linked it if I realised.
Because you choose to keep going to restaurants where they play loud music. No idea why you’re doing that
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that so many places don’t adjust the volume properly to the amount of people in the place. If I go to a sports bar near me for happy hour, they have the music the same volume as when a big game is on and the place is packed.
It seems the music is set for the staff instead of the customers too.
“Turn it up loud enough we don’t have to hear these assholes complain”
You may have just nailed the motivation.
It’s not you. If I’m at a RESTAURANT and can’t hear my friends, I leave. I won’t spend money at a place I have to yell to be heard (unless there’s a band I specifically want to see or I’m at a bar, but even bars have limits).
It’s too loud most places.
Often because the staff is bored silly and want music to get through their minimum wage shift.
They’ve said restaurants though, not fast food joints.
Correct. A lot of restaurants pay staff that can get tips minimum wage, since they can make $100+ of extra income during the shift.
Some backward countries even have a lower minimum wage for people who can get tips.
Talking customers take longer to gtfo their tables so they can stick someone else in .
I personally avoid such places. There are many who make live music a selling point, which always plays super loud to the point where any chat can only happen by shouting into someone else’s ear. How people like this is beyond me
Pro-tip: Even in a loud place you can (and should!) speak with your normal voice (e.g. no shouting) when having your mouth an inch or two from the other person’s ear. They will hear you just fine, even if you can’t hear yourself.
Might be relevant, but I find that American restaurants are generally louder compared to European ones.
Side note: And why is ithe music always fucking neo-country? Sure, I’ve mostly been to Texas, but I have several albums in my CD collection as a testament to y’all making good music too.
It isn’t. My favorite restaurant–Kuma’s Korner, on Belmont in Chicago–is always playing metal.
Goddamn I miss that place… :(
I need to check it out. Turns out they have one in the suburbs just under 4 miles from me.
I’d been to the Lincoln Park location–I think that it’s closed now–and it had a very different vibe. I haven’t been to the suburban locations. To me, the original location, with it’s tiny eating section and dive-bar vibe, is still the best. Almost like if Exit served good food, y’know? (AFAIK, Exit doesn’t serve food at all.)
I just moved back to the Chicago land area after being away for 20 years. These places sound like my exact vibe and the sort of places I’ve been searching for.
Do you have any other recommendations?
My experience in American restaurants is that the music is usually whatever is currently popular, so there’s a lot of hip hop and pop songs about dancing and fucking.
Last time I was out to eat with friends, the restaurant was playing an easy listening version of Welcome to the Jungle. That was a lot to process.
The US and it’s people are often super loud. I say this as one who traveled and now lives in Japan. I didn’t notice right away and had to work hard to lower my normal volume
In India, restaurants generally play smooth music at near audible levels.
