The move is a show that the U.S. does hold power over Israel’s actions — but chooses not to act in crucial ways.
Archived version: https://archive.ph/lfKmn
If you click through the link they have for commentators that say the US can’t control Israeli actions, you get to an article that does not say that. It just argues we do not have absolute control, which is a much more modest claim.
There’s degrees to these things. It isn’t a video game where the nation either does everything you say or nothing you say. Instead its more like a work relationship, where say, someone you pay a paycheck to can either do what you ask, not do what you ask and risk the consequences, or not do what you ask and hope you don’t find out. It ultimately depends on a whole lot of different, individual calculations. How much are you paying? What are you requesting? How badly do they want to disobey? How hard is it to find another job? How long can they go just living on their savings? Etc.
In the workforce we see all three results fairly often, and this is really no different.
Anyways, a bit dishonest for misrepresenting the argument it tries to criticize, this article is essentially concocted around a strawman.
They could literally just not give them bombs. It is very easily within their means. But they won’t, because they don’t want to
That would not actually save Palestinians from starvation. You don’t need 1000lb bombs to commit a genocide.
Sure but it’d be a lot easier if they had any infrastucture. Like hospitals and farms and water storage of any kind. The bombs are a large part of what enabled the starvation
True. The military blockade allowing only a modest amount of aid in with no real assistance in distribution is also a major problem.
It would. Israel is done within a few months without American support. They have adversaries all around them.
There’s a reason Genocide Joe sent the fleet to protect israel against Lebanon.
Egypt? Not an adversary. Jordan? Not an adversary. Syria? Not an adversary. On top of that, the last 3 times Israel fought them all, sometimes even simultaneously, they crushed them. All there is left is Hezbollah, with around 20% the total size of the IDF.
Oh, and now they have nukes.
And none of this is necessary to starve a captive population to death anyway.
My man this is top tier IDF propaganda. Nothing is true.
If Egypt was a rival, why not help hamas or leave the Gaza border open? If Jordan was a rival, why help track Iranian missiles? If Syria was a rival, why have American military bases?
Meanwhile, estimates put Hezbollah fighting strength at 60k. IDF has 300k enlisted.
Israel almost certainly has nukes.
The problem isn’t IDF propaganda, it’s your propaganda that cannot acknowledge any difficult truth, because of your pretty clear goal in aiding the Jihadist quest to reclaim all of Palestine.
edit: Oh, and I almost forgot. Hezbollah is Shiite Muslim. Most of the rest of the Middle East is Sunni Muslim. It’s a lot more complicated than some basic conflict.
Israel is waging a 7 front war. Why do you think Biden sent aircraft carriers to defend against Hezbollah?
First, you ignore the basic fact that we know US can do that, because US did that before. Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush put pressure on Israel when they went too far for US to tolerate before, and Israel backed off.
Second, Israel humiliated US multiple times by now, by crossing every single “red-line” US expressed.
Third, the US is going around their own laws and procedures by excluding Israel from their humanitarian conditions attached to weapon sales to every other country.
Fourth, the linked article from Foreign Policy directly says that threats are useless.
But because Israel’s current leaders remain highly resolved on this issue, even credible threats to reduce U.S. support might not lead them to alter course significantly.
Fifth, your analogy makes no sense. US is the primary benefactor of Israel. Based on 2019-2023 data, over 69% of total sales is from US. Second is Germany with 30%, third is Italy with 0.9%. They have no alternative. This doesn’t even include the support from 2024, the latest 22 billion package pending right now and the rockers for iron dome system that costs US taxpayers 33 billions per 10 years, the latest contract lasts until 2028.
All of the above also ignores historical support.
I think you misunderstand. I am not saying the US has no influence. No one is saying the US has no influence, only the article you posted says that.
The US has some influence, no question. It’s just about how much? Some influence is between total control and no control.
Regarding threats, well, they have so far demonstrated to be fairly weak. It was our actions to withhold bombs over the Rafah invasion that produced the most results.
Lastly, they certainly have alternatives. The current status quo is not the only status quo possible, there are other powers they could align with if they so chose. Additionally, money can be borrowed, as the US is quite well-known for doing these days.
edit for spelling
US bombed Belgrade… US can bomb tel aviv until Israelis submit…
That would be grossly unpopular with the US public, even among progressives. It would quite possibly result in an attempt at impeaching the president.
Whether we like it or not, our older generations like Israel. They remember the pre-Netanyahu days, when Israel was dismantling its own West Bank settlements, and sometimes earlier when it was being warred on by all its neighbors. In our democratic society their opinions need to be considered.
Theoretically, yes though, we could. We also bombed ISIS to save the Yazidis.
Yes and these Americans appear to be fine isrsel committing genocide…
So yes genocide will continue and US will continue to enable it.
They also operate under an old, outdated definition of the word genocide, where it used to mean the attempted killing of all of a certain group, instead of simply erasing their way of life. This is one of the reasons I prefer ethnic cleansing, as the definition of that has not changed in recent history, and it’s equally bad.
Overall I am hoping Harris hardens her stance on Netanyahu once she is past the election. But yes, you might be right.
How is Israel not attempting to kill all of Gaza residents. They already killed about 2-3% in under one year. Rest are in near starvation conditions, these people are placed into open air camps …
How is this different from what Germany did?
The only difference I see, there is no forced labour.
Genuine question…
No one is saying the US has no influence, only the article you posted says that.
So is it nobody or is it somebody? You can’t have it both ways…
It’s just about how much? Some influence is between total control and no control.
And past precedents showed that it has total control. You don’t seem to dispute that.
It was our actions to withhold bombs over the Rafah invasion that produced the most results.
What results? Those bombs are already released and ready to be used to kill children.
The current status quo is not the only status quo possible, there are other powers they could align with if they so chose. Additionally, money can be borrowed, as the US is quite well-known for doing these days.
Can you provide any examples of who would those powers be? From a geopolitical perspective, the US only cares about Israel because of the ability to use them as a launching point for their wars in the Middle East. Russia’s or China’s have opposite interest of Israel as they support Arabs for different reasons, EU doesn’t give a shit and the rest of NATO countries will follow US lead.
Good luck with borrowing as even with US support, their credit rating is being lowered. They have no economic power, only geopolitical one and only with US. Why the hell do you think they spend billions of dollars in US elections?
Okay, the article you posted claims someone said that the US has no control. That was a lie, when the article they linked to made no such claim.
And past precedents showed that it has total control. You don’t seem to dispute that.
I absolutely dispute this. Did we make them attack one of our navy ships decades ago? Did we make Netanyahu fund hamas?
Regarding a launching point for wars in the Middle East, this is extremely outdated in the modern day, when we have military bases all through Iraq and numerous other allies in the region. We launched Desert Storm from Saudi Arabia for instance.
Russia’s or China’s have opposite interest of Israel as they support Arabs for different reasons
What do you think those reasons are? (Because those would be my picks.)
Lowering your credit rating does not make borrowing impossible, just more expensive due to higher interest rates.
Okay, the article you posted claims someone said that the US has no control. That was a lie, when the article they linked to made no such claim.
Neither article made such a claim. It’s purely your creation. What it said and supported article collaborates is that there are commentators that claim “U.S. can’t affect Israel’s actions”. And that’s a common line between pro-war hawks, since they make money from this war…
Did we make them attack one of our navy ships decades ago?
By all publically available information and statements from both parties that was concluded to be a human error. Not sure how that has to do anything with US having Israel by the balls when it comes to the funding they provide.
Did we make Netanyahu fund hamas?
Can’t really dispute that possibility. There is lack of clear information about that at the moment. Some people even dispute the fact that war criminal Netanyahu funded them, even though he admitted it in a recorded conversation. Though again, how does that have anything to do with the funding and US control over Israel’s actions?
What do you think those reasons are? (Because those would be my picks.)
Russia support Iran and vice versa, which is an arch enemy of Israel. China used to support Israel, but after they started the genocide against Palestinians, they moved away from them and is refocusing on Arab states. Having good relations with them is more valuable for China due to natural resources. And it’s a huge blow to Israel’s economy, as China used to be #1 trading partner.
Lowering your credit rating does not make borrowing impossible, just more expensive due to higher interest rates.
Sure, but it’s a doom spiral and weakens your economy with each passing day until there is nothing left. With the isolation they placed themselves with the genocide, they are depended on a strong nation to defend them globally to even have access to most of the world. Without it, they are the next North Korea.
“U.S. can’t affect Israel’s actions”
The evidence they provided to support this statement did not contain this claim, making it a falsehood. Additionally, no, that argument is actually not common at all in any mainstream circles that I read. The argument is that we do not fully control them, not that we have no influence.
I’m not sure why you suddenly believe official Israeli statements and the investigations into their actions. It is a debated matter, regardless. So, did we make them shoot one of our citizens recently, as in the article you posted?
I am trying to convince you that we do not have full control of Israel. We have some influence. This is distinct from control. You asked me earlier if I disputed that we control them, and I do, and this is the beginning of my evidence.
Fair. I am not convinced that Russian and Chinese interests would not re-align if their main rivals were not in a vulnerable position. This is very hypothetical though.
No, I don’t think they need a strong sponsor. Unlike N Korea, they are much wealthier than their neighbors and a technologically advanced service-based economy. They have many, many things that many, many people would want.
Thank you for the discussion, but it doesn’t look like continuing it would be productive.
