The first game sold millions without any drm. Naturally, they had to add denuvo for the second game.
Their publisher was bought by Embracer shortly after the release of Kingdom Come Deliverance, maybe they’re to blame here.
Fucking Embracer. They’re a cancer on the industry
Unless they push back from within, they will still suffer the backlash from not trusting the fan base.
Because it seems that whatever statistics Denuvo is peddling show that more sales are secured, even if it’s cracked in the first few weeks.
Idk how true that is, obviously, just outlining why they’re buying into it.
Doesn’t need to be true, just convincing to some suits
The mistake was pre-ordering in the first place
While I agree, we shouldn’t criticize people for learning and changing for the better.
We’ve had decades of pre-order shenanigans, you’d think every gamer and their mother would know to avoid them by now.
The impulse is understandable, but yeah. You’d think they’d learn.
The impulse WAS understandable to me when physical copies sold out. I got so lucky that someone cancelled their Wii preorder and I was able get one without camping. I preordered a Monster Hunter game for the 3DS and it super sold out immediately.
But now when digital games are infinite… I never preorder anything. Why would I? I don’t support preorder bonuses…
True but we should be calling out the practice as anti consumet behaviour…
Absolutely!
And it does send a signal.
Shh, if denuvo is what finally makes them learn then let’s just let it play out.
I can’t wait for the day when Denuvo ends up scaring away more legitimate customers than it actually helps to sell the game. It seems like we are slowly getting there :')
It’s way past that point long ago.
But shareholders don’t understand that, so publishers will continue forcing developers to use it.
You’re living in a bubble. Most gamers don’t know and don’t care about it
I don’t see this as refuting the previous point because those who don’t know nor care about Denuvo probably wouldn’t be pirating the game regardless. Pirates and entrenched enthusiasts are the ones in the know, so the real question is how many pirates actually purchase games they otherwise wouldn’t versus enthusiasts who refrain because of its inclusion.
There was a recent report, it only helps during the first few months of sales according to a very flimsy study that was done.
It suggests that it only saves a mean of 15% total revenue during the first 12 weeks.
Though remember, these figures are all just theoretical projections of sales. Basically just “well we believe we should have made this much revenue. So if we don’t make it, it means we lost potential revenue, not that we simply didn’t make as much as we thought we would.”
I can’t wait until some major vulnarability in Denuvo pops up and either gets widely exploited or AV programs start to warn against it due to security risks
I’m still gonna play it. This just changes whether I pay for it or not.
The one you find while treasure hunting runs better anyway.
You’ll have to wait until the Denuvo license runs out, then.
Cracks for Denevo games tend to run better from what I hear
Yes, but they still need to get cracked and there’s about only two people we know that do it
And one isn’t, because she got it in her head that people like her for her personality. Lol.
Denuvo games don’t get cracked any more since around June last year.
Always a cat and mouse game. “Haven’t been cracked” would be a more apt way to put it.
I’m that level of petty.
It’s not just petty, it’s also about not supporting shitty companies & services for a better world tomorrow.
Atleast the game will be cheaper as well by then. I’ve only just finished the first one, waiting is never a bad thing.
Oh no, they’re putting denuvo on it? Man I loved the first game. I don’t think they even had anything close to a problem with piracy because it was a huge hit. Like, it not only did amazing for Warhorse Studios, but it made a huge tourism jump for the region.
That’s a bummer, and as much as I want to support KC:D II, I can’t support denuvo.
I seriously considered preordering, seeing how much I enjoyed the first installment. Fortunately Denuvo prevented me from doing so. I’ll wait until that piece of trash is patched out, it’ll probably be cheaper by that time as well. Thanks Denuvo!
And it’s not like a single player game gets worse over time. The player count is totally irrelevant and if 2 years from launch nobody is playing it it doesn’t affect your experience at all.
This is a loss for Warhorse and a win for anyone that doesn’t need to play it now.
Yup. And the preorder bonus for the first part became available to everybody at some point, so chances are that will happen again. And if not: fuck FOMO, I’m done with that dark pattern shit.
Same. The first one is one of my favorite games of all time and I’m really looking forward for the second game, but fuck denuvo so very very much.
Pre-order and cancel it, just to make a point!
I also have stop being interested in games because of Denuvo. Understandable.
It might be a lessor experience but I’ve found its easier for some games that require a third party launcher or this shit, instead playing them on console.
Imagine still pre-ordering games in 2024
(I apologize for the really long comment.)
I still pre-order, but I’m very selective. I only pre-order games I am 100% sure I’ll enjoy it.
If something comes up in the months before release that makes me question whether I’ll enjoy the game or not, goodbye pre-order.
There’s also very few companies and franchises I trust enough to pre-order from. They’re mainly the Kingdom Hearts (but only the “main” games; I’m not buying that rhythm game) and Persona (also only the main games, not the spin-offs) series. I also pre-ordered Metaphor (because I trust Atlus as a developer after having played all three games in the modern Persona series, and because I liked what I saw in trailers and what I played in the demo) and am actually enjoying it more than Persona.
To put it another way, I pre-order games from developers and directors I 100% trust to deliver a good game that I will enjoy immensely. Any less than that, and I will not pre-order. Like I said, I’m very selective. If I haven’t played anything from the developer before, I won’t pre-order. If they’ve broken my trust in some way, I won’t pre-order. If I don’t like what I see in the trailers or what I hear in the interviews, I won’t pre-order. If I see that DRM will negatively impact my play experience (which admittedly doesn’t have much of a chance of happening since I rarely play on PC), I won’t pre-order.
But why? Why do you pre-order? Does it gain you something that waiting until the launch date doesn’t provide?
If I can, I try to get my pre-orders through Best Buy’s in-store pickup, which means I can simply walk in the store and pickup my order. It’s essentially the same as going in and buying the game on launch day, except I’m guaranteed a copy that I’ve already paid for. If I don’t pre-order, there’s a chance the store either won’t get any copies by release day or they may sell out of them by the time I get there after work.
Also, try as I might, there’s been several times where I haven’t been able to get a copy from Best Buy for one reason or another. That leaves Amazon as my only choice. So, in that case, pre-ordering means I’ll get my package on launch day, typically in the early afternoon.
So, for me, it’s less about the pre-order bonuses and more about the logistics. I want to play a game on the day it comes out. I’ve usually planned to have free time specifically to play the game on release. So pre-ordering means I spend less time looking for a copy of a game I already know 100% that I’ll enjoy and more time actually playing the game.
This makes sense, you get physical copies! I haven’t purchased a physical copy in so long it didn’t even occur to me. Thanks for the explanation.
Honestly, if I can, I always get physical. If I buy a digital copy, there’s no guarantee that the store I bought it from won’t take it back or something like that.
Where the heck are you buying physical PC games? I haven’t seen that on over ten years at least.
I said I hardly ever buy PC games.
If I’m interested in a PC-only game, I check GOG first, then I check Steam. I will rarely ever pre-order a PC game.
Edit: Also, I appreciate the (probably unintentional) Attack on Titan reference.
ten years at least.
If you haven’t seen the show, don’t look it up. It’s a spoiler.
They still sell physical copies of games? TIL
Yeah, it’s still pretty common for big publishers to sell their games physically. Games from smaller devs that self-publish are usually only sold digitally, though they can sometimes end up getting published physically later on if they get popular enough.
Edit: Or were you talking about Best Buy and Amazon selling physical games?
Not them, but pre-loading a game so I can play it when I get off work is great
Buy it a day or so in advance if early reviews look good on top of the other signs (known good developer for example), install, be ready to game when I get home without waiting
Or, sometimes, if I know I’m gonna get it even if it’s bad (3arch cod games, I’m a zombies addict even when it’s not great) I’ll pre-order on a paycheck earlier in the year so the one the game comes out in has more money for enjoying the game when that time comes (snacks, weed… That’s most of it tbh)
I do it fully aware that if/when a game is shite it’s entirely my own fault, I don’t pretend otherwise at least
I am also curious.
Cyberpunk 2077.
No
That’s actually a good example of a game I initially pre-ordered but then cancelled because I didn’t like what I saw in later trailers.
Looks up from Shadow Generations Yeah the censorship of the Sonic portion sucks, but that’s not what I’m here for, that’s what I was here for in 2010. Shadow 2 bahbee!
(Or ever?)
It was fine, arguably a good practice, when physical non-patchable games existed. Especially, say, Pokemon games that would otherwise be sold out for several months, meaning the social aspect was ruined if you didn’t get it as it came out.
I personally don’t think it was ever fine, not when there is a giant publisher standing & profiting behind it.
For smol independent studios or even one-man-dev teams (as a high risk “investment”/support) I would understand.
I want to finance devs & artists as much as possible, not lowering financing costs of a giant company (and give them even more monetization opportunities).
Im not familiar with the Pokemon thing you mentioned but that seems like an artificial scarcity. Physical copies could always be stamped overnight (vidya game magazines did it for decades).
addendum: Denuvo is sick of “toxicity,” says people only hate it because it works
If people only hated it because it works, paying customers wouldn’t be cancelling their preorders!
That’s the key here. People who were willing to pre-pay for the game ahead of time are clearly not the target of the DRM, and yet they’re the ones choosing to cancel their purchase. It’s not pirates complaining because they want to play the game for free, it’s people who were looking forward to buying the game.
People are voting with their wallets. They were willing to buy it. But this effects them and made the game no longer worth it. Pirates will pirate regardless. But you just lost some of the genuine customers by effecting them, pirates will have a “better” version.
If driving away sales counts as “it works”, then good for them.
I learned it the hard way by buying Shadow of the Tomb Raider after pirating and liking it, the same PC ran the legit version like shit, I bet they only have nasa PCs over there to test the DRM on.
I hate it because it’s just a sign of disrespect of the publisher towards the legitimate customers. Guess who has a better experience when the DRM goes to shit or slows down the game? Those who didn’t pay.
I just won’t be part of the first customers, I’ll wait for the game to be cleaned up of this bs.
I’ll just wait for it to show up DRM-free on GOG at a discount ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is the way.
Will wait for crack then 👍
They’re not getting any of my money if they keep Denuvo. As always, I’ll just play something else.
I won’t lie and say this is what’s going to stop me from buying the game, because my computer not being able to run it was going to stop me from buying the game. So symbolically I’m with them I guess.
Maybe by the time you update, they’ll have removed Denuvo and you’ll have the best of both worlds.
The first game was pretty good, but ran like shit for several years and was full of glitches…
Considering how broken games release these days, and now adding denuvo, I think it’s gonna be a hot pile of garbage. I would delay getting it for a 2 years after release date at this point.
I skipped buying Death Loop despite a decent sale on steam just yesterday because of denuvo.
It also made me more glad I just dropped Xbox game pass because that client didn’t show it used it at all (or if it did, I didn’t notice it), and it was on my wishlist because I had been playing it via game pass.
I wonder how many sales publishers leave on the table because of denuvo (both from people boycotting denuvo and from the lack of free advertising piracy gives) vs how many sales it generates because someone couldn’t pirate a game instead of buying it.
Like my own experience with this is when I was playing pirated games, I picked games based on availability of a pirated version. If there was a specific game I wanted to play, I might have looked for it, but failing to find it wouldn’t have meant I was headed to the store for it.
I later bought some of my favorite games after playing the pirated version. Great games made me want to give the devs money. Plus, people tend to talk about games they love, and others who hear about it might not go looking for a free version.
So all that makes me wonder if those who use denuvo are just paying extra for something that just hurts their sales instead of helping.
They MBA types treat it as something you just do these days. It protects the game from being pirated in those first few critical weeks of sale. Then they remove it as a gesture of goodwill and the anti-denuvo fans come back and buy the game anyway.
Deathloop came out in 21. Though as mentioned to the other reply, steam says denuvo anti-tamper rather than DRM (and they claim to have pirated it a year ago), so this could be a different use case.
Just wondering if the anti tamper involves anything in the kernel now, since that was the use case that was originally targeted with kernel level code.
I skipped buying Death Loop despite a decent sale on steam just yesterday because of denuvo.
Death Loop has Denuvo? I remember pirating that about a year ago.
Yeah, and based on my search it looks like it had it right from launch, too. Though the steam page says denuvo anti-tamper, so maybe that’s not the same as the denuvo drm that (I think) uses encryption on certain parts of the code.
Fwiw, I didn’t notice any annoying performance issues. Apparently there is/was a stutter that was fps dependent, but the devs said they didn’t think it was related to denuvo.
I don’t really understand your gripe with gamepass here. Personally I’m extremely glad I got to try Deathloop through gamepass because I found out it was just another generic ass FPS that I didn’t want to buy.
Hmm I’ve been enjoying deathloop. Tbh though I’ve not done any gaming for maybe twenty years so it doesn’t seem very generic to me. I like the colours and the feel of it.
