Explanations/etymology also appreciated!
For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).
And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.
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In Norway we have the stereotypical Norwegians “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari were quite common names a couple generations ago (not so common now). “Nordmann” literally translates to “Norwegian [person]”, but is also a not-too-uncommon last name.
We typically talk about them if we’re describing something or some situation and what the stereotypical Norwegian would do/think.
In Spain we use “Fulano de Tal”. It seems Fulano comes from the arabic language, meaning “Anybody”. We use it when we don’t the name of a person we are talking about, or we really don’t care to know the name. Apart of Fulano, we also use Mengano.
Fulano/Mengano for men, Fulana/Mengana for women.
I guess our John/Jane Smith would be Pepe/Pepa García.
Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It’s used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in Berlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.
That’s the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it’s way too long and artificial, I don’t think the name Mustermann actually exists.
When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I’d probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).
In older publication you may alse find references to “der deutsche Michel” (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because “der deutsche Michel” doesn’t see the pointor would never pick it up.
Haven’t seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)
Oh that is interesting. In the US (at least, maybe other English dominant places have this too, but I don’t know) we have “the average Joe” to describe this same kind of person.
In US legal cases, “John Doe”, “Jane Roe”, and similar names are used for pseudonymized legal parties.
For instance, the plaintiff in the famous abortion case Roe v. Wade was one Norma McCorvey, identified as “Jane Roe”.
A group of unidentified people appearing as plaintiffs or defendants may be called a group of “Does”, from the name John Doe.
The words doe and roe both refer to deer, which are common wild animals in North America — and as wild animals, represent an arbitrary unspecified person. A doe is a female deer; and while “roe” can also mean fish eggs, roe deer is a common European species of deer.
“roe” (the deer) is also the word that linguist David Crystal called “the first English word”, having first been recorded around the 400s:
Good bot
In my country (Spanish speaking) we say “Fulano de tal” Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. “De tal” really means something like “from somewhere”.
We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like “imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx”.
There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.
Edit: My mom sometimes uses “Miguel Perez”. Those 2 are very common first and last names.
Fulano, Zutano and Mengano are the Foo and Bar of spanish names.
Some others in the Anglosphere:
Fred Bloggs - no idea where it’s from. Related to “bog” as in bog standard maybe?
Tom, Dick and Harry - is ages old. Even as far back as Shakespeare you can see the triplet evolving. “Tom, Dicke, and Francis” : Henry IV, Part I
I’ve always heard it as Joe Bloggs. The Bloggs bot is believed to be a derivation of bloke
Australian here, Joe Bloggs is very common here.
In Hungary we have Gipsz Jakab as the most common placeholder name, not sure where it originated from. Gipsz is not at all a common family name, in fact I’ve never heard of anyone with that name. The full name can be translated to James Plaster.
There’s also Kovács István, both parts are (one of) the most common family and given names, and for kids it’s Kovács Pisti, which is like a nickname for István (think William -> Bill).
Other common placeholder names are
- Teszt Elek (read together it means “I’m testing” but it’s a valid name otherwise)
- Minta Anna (Ana Sample)
- Minta Áron (Aaron Sample)
- Jóska Pista (typical sounding name from a small village)
Sorry, US person here. Not familiar with Hungary at all. Is it common to do the “last” name first?
Yes, we use the Eastern name order where our family name comes first and our given names second (similarly to Japan, Korea and China).
Thanks for explaining!
In Poland we have “Jan/Anna Nowak”, the most common first and last name.
Not entirely relevant to your question, but funny/interesting: boomer memes were quite popular a while ago, and from those we’ve got "Janusz " and “Grażyna”, typical boomer first names. There is for example “Janusz biznesu”, meaning “Janusz of business”, a person that shamelessly uses malicious or shady business practices.
Cliff Tom Robert, David most male boomer names are still somewhat popular except maybe Norman. Not a lot of Normans.
In England “the man on the Clapham omnibus” means your average citizen in legal terms.
In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.
Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.
spoiled all the fun :)
