So I’m 20 and I’ve started looking at the salaries of jobs/careers, and this is the impression I’ve gotten. Like that you could spend years cramming a ton of knowledge about a very niche field, and still only get 2-3x what a run-of-the-mill job makes. Is this true? If yes then I guess this route to wealth would only make sense (due to the diminishing returns) if the topic truly spoke to you, right? Are there alternative career paths to good pay than being really good at something really specific?

  • @Atlas_
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    33 hours ago

    Play around with this for a bit: https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement?income=50000&initialBalance=0&expenses=20000&annualPct=5&withdrawalRate=4

    Consider spending 30k yearly when you’re earning 50k. You can retire in about 20 years if you keep to that. You really gotta keep to it though, spending 40k means you’d have to work almost 40 years instead.

    Now compare that to spending 30k when making 100k. Now you can retire in 9 years. Even if you have to spend literally twice as much time+effort doing so, you end up with more of your life leftover.

    This is not to say that you should take a job you hate, but rather to say that making more money does make your life better, but only up to a point. If you find a job that you genuinely enjoy, great do that. If you’re picking between different things you dislike, translate it back into years instead of trying to understand it in made up funny money numbers. And when you get there, stop.

  • @[email protected]
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    3 hours ago

    OP, I gave a funny sort of answer to the question itself, but it occurs to me that I should address your text separately. If you have options, you absolutely should pursue something you feel a bit of passion for, unless your passions are all hella impractical. The sweet spot is something that allows you to not worry about money, and that you don’t completely hate or even low-key enjoy. Hell jobs that earn a bit extra and being a starving artist that will break in any time now, I swear both get shit reviews (unless done on cocaine).

    At 20, something I didn’t realise is that you’re not supposed to “get rich”. I feel like culture sells the idea that we’re all supposed to be Steve Jobs or Elon Musk or something. That’s bullshit, even those guys aren’t what they claim to be, and the messaging about striving for it is basically propaganda to make people like them feel better. I don’t care how smart and amazing you are; real adult life, at it’s best, is about earning x dollars, and spending exactly x dollars on a mix of things today and on investments so you can retire down the road.

    Also, you said big jobs “only” make 3x a normal job amount, but where I am in life just an extra 10% a month is basically the difference between two very different situations. 3x someone else’s salary would make the world your oyster. (Although, most people with money get caught in lifestyle creep and never consider what they actually want)

    Another thing my teachers explained to me, but not very well, is that it’s hard to know what you enjoy doing up front. Expect to change courses, not because it’s helpful (it’s rarely so), but because you basically have to as you gradually get the hang of things.

    Are there alternative career paths to good pay than being really good at something really specific?

    Hazardous jobs, shift work, really unpleasant (even evil) jobs. Education still blows them out of the water, though. IIRC most degree holders eventually earn more than an underwater welder or ice road trucker. Other than that, there is no free lunch. The only way to make money for nothing involves having a much larger sum of money to put in up front.

    • @reptar
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      13 hours ago

      This is a great post. I’m mid-30s and toying with a career change. If life’s good to you, you at least can exhale and review options, but no, generally studying (or practicing, whatever) is not going to be that kind of a wage multiplier, unless you are cherry picking (and/or discounting some serious debt). It can help make your job suck less though. I think probably just as lucrative is always being ready to change employers for a raise. But, I don’t have experience with that so I may be talking out my ass there.

  • @[email protected]
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    2811 hours ago

    The amount of money you save (and invest) isn’t accurately depicted with this though. Living expenses don’t necessarily grow with take home, if you keep lifestyle creep to a minimum.

    So what this means is that if you make $100k and save $10k/year, if you start making $200k you can save the same $10k/year, plus the entire additional $100k after taxes (let’s just say that’s $50k+). So you doubled your salary but your savings went up 6x+.

  • @vatlark
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    48 hours ago

    I would certainly recommend picking a field of study and work for more reasons than just the money. As a counter point to your plot, I have seen small career moves result in huge pay increases.

  • @[email protected]
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    1311 hours ago

    Salary really depends on value provided or enabled. That’s why more knowledge stops mattering at a certain point, someone with a month of experience driving a forklift is less valuable than someone with 3 years, but 6 years of experience isn’t significantly different.

    There’s also benefits to being closer to money to show value. This is why sales jobs tend to pay better, as showing direct responsibility for 1 million in sales vs keeping the machines running that made the product.

    • @SendMePhotos
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      59 hours ago

      I actually just got told something similar. In a resume was listed, “over 10 years of leadership/management experience” and the recruiter reviewed it and said, “i don’t care. I can find 20 other people within two minutes who have 10+ years of experience. Tell me what the skills are.”

      Tenure in a position means very little. Every year is a diminished return of value.

  • haui
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    4015 hours ago

    After many careers and much money earned and spent, I now try to go by „ikigai“. Its a japanese theory and teaches you to be aware of what it is that you want, what makes you money, what the world needs and what you‘re good at, basically. This is how I went from a very well paid but soul sucking job to a lesser paid but much more fulfilling work.

    For me it was building computers and the stuff around it. Its fun and it makes decent money if done right.

    Good luck!

  • @[email protected]
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    1613 hours ago

    Generally speaking, wealth is not built by working. It’s built by investing. It’s possible to have a relatively small salary and get relatively wealthy if you consistently live below your means and invest the surplus. Power of compounding.

    • @[email protected]
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      39 hours ago

      X is years of experience , y is a combined axis, technical knowledge for the green line and salary for the red line

    • Kairos
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      412 hours ago

      Y is wage, X is experience. Green is just Y=x

        • nudny ekscentryk
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          812 hours ago

          my understanding is the that green line represents the linear relation of salary to knowledge which OP would consider fair and just. therefore the part where red line is above the green one means people who earn below average are overpaid for their knowledge and professional contribution. and similarly, the part where the red line is below the green one means people who earn above average are underpaid

  • sylver_dragon
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    1515 hours ago

    Your graph is missing the more important factor: demand.
    I’m guessing you weren’t born into money, which is what most ultra wealthy people do. So failing that, you need to cultivate a skillset which includes doing something that other people want and are willing to pay for. And yes, that often means learning specialized, or dangerous skills. Take something like a high voltage electrician, they can make good moeny but they need a specific skillset, certifications, and fucking up can mean dying very quickly. Construction divers or underwater welders can earn good money as well. Though again, specific skillsets, certifications, and risks. On the less risky side, programmers can make good money, though that usually does require a lot of learning. IT and cybersecurity also fit this bill, though they do tend to follow your graph.

    In short, businesses pay for people because they have a need for something to get done. No need, no money. You can be the most knowledgeable person in the world about flaking stone tools, and you are going to be struggling. Another route to income is starting your own business, but this has similar pitfalls. Start a business which people aren’t interested in and you’re going to flounder. Also, running a business does take it’s own skillset, beyond the skillset involved in whatever the business’s focus area is. Though, done right, you can focus on running the business and hire people to do the other stuff.

    You are falling into a trap a lot of young, smart people do. You are assuming that knowledge and intelligence is what you need to succeed. It’s not your fault, you’ve been fed that line for the last 12-ish years of your life by schools and society. It’s bullshit. They do help, but knowing the right people, luck and the ability to socialize are more important. In short, go to business school and go into management. If that doesn’t appeal to you (and that is perfectly valid) then you need to find and learn skills that businesses are willing to pay for. At the moment, that probably means a trade, like electrician or welder; or, a technical role such as engineering, IT or programming. If your interest is in the Humanities, sorry you’re probably fucked.

    • @[email protected]
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      414 hours ago

      Networking in university got me my first jobs and they were very good starting jobs.

      I don’t mean you have to go out and be fake, but get involved in a bunch of stuff, and make sure to check if your department has any corporate relationships you can use.

      Meeting people pays the best dividends in life.

  • @MissJinx
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    411 hours ago

    Its funny, I’m.the one that makes the least amout of money in my team. They hired 2 new people and both make 30% more than me. Besides the fact that I’m a woman I’m the one that puts the least effort into things and I don’t want to be promoted or to have “more responsibility” so I’m fine with it and so is the company. I do the bare minimun and go home happy. no extra learning, certifications, politics…nothing.

  • @[email protected]
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    913 hours ago

    This is somewhat off topic, but it is actually related to knowledge, income, and returns.

    I’m telling you from experience, make enough money to live comfortably and stop when you get there. If at all possible, don’t have a long commute. Don’t have a prestige job. Don’t have a position that requires OT or sprints. I deescalated my role to something more banal and my happiness went way up.

    You’re likely not in a position to do that at 20, but when you get somewhat into a career and life sucks and you hate your work and you want to die, start looking for something that pays less but also doesn’t suck the life out of you.

  • @Chrusher
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    14 hours ago

    I would have agreed with this chart a decade ago but not now. I recently quit being an systems engineer to being a high voltage electrician. My job stress and required knowledge went down considerably, my pay went up 2x. I would love to recommend school but cannot as I feel like it was a waste for my career path.

  • @[email protected]OP
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    1316 hours ago

    Is there a field where that red curve is flipped so that each extra aquired unit of expertise earns you exponentially more money?

    • @jordanlund
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      2215 hours ago

      Continuing to work for the same company will only provide +2% to +4% per year regardless of knowledge gained. You aren’t paid for how much you know.

      To get the large gains in income, you have to re-set your salary by changing jobs, at which point you get one big bump, then go back to +2% to +4% per year.

      • @[email protected]
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        1615 hours ago

        To be honest, when you continue to work for the same company, your knowledge will also only grow by +2% to +4% per year.
        You’ll be the go-to guy for a number of things, all of which you’ve done a thousand times. Doing something else will decrease the team’s efficiency, cause someone else is the go-to guy with the expert knowledge on that.
        And you only work within the context of your company, without getting exposed to how other companies do things.

        It takes a certain soft skill to break out of one setting and hit the ground running somewhere else, which most don’t have. And after you switch, you bring a valuable outside view into whatever company you enter. That’s part of the reason you can demand more at a new workplace.

        Staying for a long time in one place also offers comfort and familiarity, which have value for people, especially with families.
        Employers need to pay more to make up for that loss in “value”.

        • Aviandelight
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          413 hours ago

          I’m one of those people that’s switched skill sets and jobs multiple times. It’s great for me because I love learning new things and using the new things I’m learning as it applies to the current job I’m doing. But there is a disadvantage to this in that recruiters don’t know what the hell to do with you and bosses are always suspicious that you will jump ship at the drop of a hat. The ones who do take a chance and hire me have always been happy with my work though.

          • @[email protected]
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            412 hours ago

            Same boat here. A recruiter gave me the advice that staying at a company for less than 2 or more than 7 years sticks out and makes them suspicious.
            If you switched after less than 2 years, how can they rely on you sticking with them?
            If you switched after more than 7 years, are you flexible enough? And what actually forced you to switch now?

      • @[email protected]
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        715 hours ago

        Not true for everyone. My pay rises over the past 5 years were around 35% on top of my starting wage, specifically linked to how much knowledge or experience I have gained in the role.

        • @[email protected]
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          414 hours ago

          In curious where you are in the career curve?

          When I started I had similar experience where I was rapidly getting promoted and raises. Eventually that slowed down.

          • @[email protected]
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            313 hours ago

            I’m 42 and have been working in the same industry for 20 years. This is just a good company to work for.

            • @[email protected]
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              211 hours ago

              I think I’m very much a generalist, but the areas in deep on I’m much deeper than others.

              But that means as companies get bigger they want more specialists and i end up less valuable as I’m just filling in gaps.

              Makes finding those good companies harder, but I’m more valuable to small companies than hiring 3-4 people, so I can command good pay.

        • @jordanlund
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          215 hours ago

          Well, that’s great for you! Definitely not the norm though!

    • @[email protected]
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      13 hours ago

      It’s hard to overstate how much money “2-3x what a run of the mill job makes” is over the course of a lifetime. I guess to you right now it doesn’t seem like much, but someone who makes three times more money than someone else is significantly more well off. There aren’t any wage jobs that are going to net you exponential salary growth. Your only hope there is to strike gold and found PayPal or Microsoft or something.

      • @Leeks
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        514 hours ago

        To build on your comment: cost of living has a surprisingly fixed price. Different qualities of living don’t cost massively different. If the average person has to spend their whole earnings on living an “average life”, if you make 2x and want to live twice as nice of a life, it likely only cost 1.5x the “average life”. Earning 2-3x opens up a lot of luxury even though it may not seem like it.

      • @[email protected]
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        414 hours ago

        This is very true

        Some people fall into the lifestyle creep trap and get accustomed to spending what they make. If you make 2x average and live relatively normally you’ll find your savings grow quick.

        Even if you do make good money, it’s best not to let that go to your head.

    • @[email protected]
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      715 hours ago

      Sales. No joke — the knowledge you need has a hard cap (the product line) but sales is commonly the highest-paid entry level employee (as long as you hit commission).

      Now add a line in here for “effort” flattening out over time and that’s what I wanna see.

    • @ChonkyOwlbear
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      515 hours ago

      Trades. If you are a plumber or an auto mechanic you can make a killing. Doubly so if you own the business. If I had it to do over again I would get a business degree and then become an electrician.

    • @9point6
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      515 hours ago

      Con man? CEO? Hedge fund manager?

      But seriously, generally anything having an exponential return in this world is pretty unusual and generally not guaranteed if it’s a desirable outcome.

      Particularly in a capitalist economy, the business only has to pay you just enough to not leave for a competitor, they don’t need to pay you the true value of your ability unless you’re basically the only person on the planet with the necessary skills.

      On the flip side, in booming industries that require specific skills such as tech, you can generally get a pretty linear progression for a while before it plateaus in a good number of organisations.

    • @[email protected]
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      515 hours ago

      When Epic started hiring every software engineer in video games they flipped that red curve, at least to the right of that blue line.