- cross-posted to:
- brexit
- cross-posted to:
- brexit
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The graph gap between 0 and 30 irritates me. The 50 60 looks so high up.
I would have preferred 20 to 80 or 20 to 60 or 0 to 100.
A modest proposal: If a majority of 51,89% for and 48,11% against was enough to push through with Brexit, maybe 55% vs. 30% should also be a clear votum to start talking about a new EU membership.
Think it was wrong today leave is different to think they should return
Your mistake: modesty.
The fuckers pushing Brexit were extremely immodest liars.
…maybe the EU citizens should be asked first IF they want the brits to come back in the first place?
and if they do - under what conditions. Don’t forget the fact the Brits really have burned-down the bridges and threw every little bit of bullshit at the EU and several of the coutries, including their leaders. So - if they want to come back, they should think about a way to redeem themselves.
It’s not about redemption or something like that. EU membership is a process and open to all european countries. If UK wants to join again, we don’t need an apology from the population.
(and, by the way: 2016 was 9 years ago. With a life expectancy of 78 years and a voting age of 18 a bigger part of those who voted for Brexit have already died. No one under 27 was even able to vote. The migrant population also had no vote here)
I agree.
There is a lot of BS about setting an example and punishing them, but I have not seen anyone who actually knows how the process works say anything remotely like that.
It would also be a massive case of the EU cutting off it’s nose to spite it’s face. That’s just not how the EU rolls.
The normal process of joining has requirements geared towards poor peripheral countries that the UK already meets or exceeds.
The UK can join anytime it wishes and there is even a lot of room to negotiate mutually beneficial terms.
I do think it would be fair to require them to adopt the Euro this time around, for example. But even if that doesn’t happen as long as everyone is better with the UK in then it’s worth it.
Any country joining the EU pledges to join the euro, but there are no deadlines defined and there is little animo to push countries to join, but technically it’s part of the deal.
you are aware you just gave THE best plea on why the EU should NOT think about letting UK back in, right?
Don’t put all people of the UK in the same basket please.
We are stronger if we are united. Vengeance against all for being misled by the brexit liars is not productive.
there’s some truth in your statement.
Then again - looking at Hungary for example, it’s better to leave someone outside if said somebody has clear tendencies of being a troublemaker.
A good relationship is way better than no relationship. But no relationship is ENORMOUSLY better than a toxic relationship. And the UK track record isn’t that great in that regard…
We do, but we need to set an example. You can’t have it look like some club you can just enter and exit just like that. You have got to discourage other countries from trying to leave. Essentially the UK has to come crawling back on their knees and take a bad deal that gets better for them year after year or smth.
Its highly unlikely the UK will rejoin any time soon. The requirements for rejoining are much higher than those for leaving.
Rejoining would mean signing up for the Euro, and the common agricultural policy with no rebates - both those things would extremely difficult to get people to vote for here.
And I have to be honest - I did not want to leave the EU but I would not vote to rejoin. Regretting something is not the same as being for the reverse.
Brexit has not been as bad as I thought it would be. I look at the EU and the continued lack of reform and its democratic deficit and I’m kinda glad thats no longer my problem. I wish the EU all the best, but it needs to become more accountable to voters and it needs to find a way to deal with states like Hungary. Plus the rise of far right parties like AFD in Germany and the real risk Le Pen may be the next president of France honestly makes me feel safer out of the EU. How would the EU deal with far right parties in actual power? The democratic checks and balances seem so weak.
I wish the EU the best of luck with these problems. The UK has its own national problems to focus on and I feel like thats finally happening as politicians are no longer obsessing over the EU.
The problem isn’t just re-joining the eu. New contracts would be formed that would be far less advantageous for Britain than they previously had. Which would start this whole circus again :(
This whole thing was so predictable even to high school me, it’s ridiculous.
I’m one of those morons who thought it was such a sure thing, we’d obviously stay that I was “too busy” to vote. Nothing but regret
I fucking hate past you, but respect current you
Still better than being alone
I honestly think that’s very wrong and one of the last brexiteer arguments that still seems to be believed by reasonable people.
Under the old terms, the UK was one of the largest net contributors to the EU. And also one of the countries absorbing the most immigrants. In fact, the exemptions they got were all quite reasonable.
Without the exemptions, the UK would have been an even bigger net contributor and would have had even more immigrants.
Just from pure self-interest, the EU would be foolish to demand more than the old terms. In fact, with smart negotiating, I am sure the UK could get even more exemptions than they used to have.
And we, the EU, know this. The war in Ukraine is expensive af. The UK is already helping above and beyond what we could expect from them. The EU economy isn’t doing all too great either.
The mutual benefits of the UK rejoining will be billions if not trillions of extra economic output on both sides. It would be billions extra budget for the EU.
Why would we drive a hard bargain to squeeze out the Brits?
Friendly terms that make the British politicians look good and that make the UK public feel like winners and which provide direct short term economic benefits are the way to do it.
Unfortunately it is highly unlikely. The EU would not be being punitive in requiring the UK to play by the same rules as everyone else, it would be playing by its own rules and being fair.
They require countries to join the eurozone when ready and they require signing up to the common agricultural policy etc. Member states that did not get to opt out or rebates would not be willing to allow a new member to have those benefits and any country can veto a country joining. It could only be on the same terms as everyone else.
I dont see the UK rejoining for a generation. The Euro, the CAP and immigration remain highly toxic topics in the UK and would derail any attempt to rejoin.
Also leaving the EU has not been as harmful as we thought. Im not saying its been a positive thing but it hasn’t been anywhere as disasterous was being made out on the remain side of the debate. A reduction in growth while the economy is still growing is not being felt by people. Covid also massively muddied the water - some of the side effects of leaving have been attributed in peoples minds to the pandemic instead.
And the biggest issues in the UK - public services and immigration - have little to nothing to do with the EU. So its just not part of the mainstream political discourse 9 years after the vote.
Without the exemptions, the UK would have been an even bigger net contributor and would have had even more immigrants.
When a new country joins the union there’s always a grace period where countries can say “freedom of movement doesn’t apply to them, yet”. This is to avoid migration waves while still kinda poor countries catch up in terms of living standards which then reduces migration rates naturally.
The UK never made use of that. Westminster never used the mechanisms the EU gave them to control the flow of immigration. So, kindly, fuck off with your bollocks. This is precisely the kind of thing why the rest of the EU is apprehensive of the UK rejoining. The rest of Europe doesn’t like to play scapegoat for Etonians.
It’s funny how such a small amount of text can fill somebody with so much hope. Thank you stranger for bringing a little light :)
We’re not strangers, we’re Europeans.
In my small village of the Netherlands there are graves of RAF pilots. And in NATO, we are still allies.
My wife made scones and lemon curd this weekend.
My favourite heat pump geek (urban plumbers on youtube) is a Polish guy living and working in the UK.
All these attempts by people trying to divide Europeans are pathetic. It’s sad that many people fall for it, because we share a culture and a history.
The UK rejoining the EU in some shape or form (perhaps the EEA) is just a matter of time. Same with Ukraine.
And personally, I think we should already start planning on how to form strategic defense and trade alliances with Turkey, Egypt and a post-Putin Russia. That will solidify a peaceful and prosperous 21st century in Europe and West-Asia.
Nah, it means the UK wouldn’t rejoin. Voters wouldn’t vote for joining the EU if that meant the Euro and the common agricultural policy and so on. The question will not even be asked for a generation as its so toxic and divisve.
The EU needs to stop worrying about the UK and focus on its own problems. If i were still an EU citizen I’d be far more bothered by the behaviour of Hungary, the rise of the AFD in Germany and the chances of Le Pen being French president. The EU doesn’t seem well equipped for those problems. The UK is not the EUs problem.
The EU doesn’t even think that much anymore about the UK. And the UK isn’t that important anymore, and they struggle to accept that. Maybe they should focus on getting basic utilities working again for their citizens (like Water and Health) and less about telling everyone how great they are.
If you leave the bigger London Area, most parts of Eastern Europe look more prosperous and advanced
This time, however, the right-wing ones are taking place in America and the UK… The exit from the EU has helped the right so much to weaken democracy in the West… then in combination with Trump… the beginning of the trade war… bringing more and more people closer to the right. You mention AfD and Co? Look at how broken and corrupt systems in US and UK are first
Well im not sure that is correct for the UK. The right wing Reform got 5 seats out of 650. The right wing conservatives vote collapsed and we have a large Labour majority.
So the right wing are not breaking through in the UK at the moment; if anything they have been pushed back and largely because of the incompetency and corruption of the Conservatives.
That may change - it is a constant battle - but the UK is not in the hands of authoritarian regime unlike the US. We certainly could do with electoral reform but for the next 5 years things internally are stable.
Meanwhile France is in crisis with parliament split in thirds between left, right and centre and no obvious candidate to stand against Le pen. And in Germany AFD keeps progressing gaining seats in regional elections. The german federal government is weak and unpopular, woth a perfect opportunity for extreme parties like AFD to make in roads.
And Hungary is already in the EU, and the EU has been unable to stop its descent into authoritarianism. Orban is nothing short of a trumpian dictator.
Honestly if you’re in the EU I think you need to wake up to the threats around you. I honestly dont know how the EU will deal with these threats - the dangers are very real and very concerning. You already have a wolf in the sheep pen with Orban; he will undermine effective responses to Trump and can block meaningful change in the EU.
It’s not just Hungary. Just look at Romania’s latest statement to divide up Ukraine, does Romania also want a piece of… I come from Germany and democracy has already fallen. The EU is fucked, I’m not saying anything against that. It wasn’t the EU that got the ball rolling. It was the hostile behavior of the US and UK. Officially, right-wing extremism doesn’t lead in your country… but it’s already everywhere in sheep’s clothing. BTW UK is so disgusting when it comes to surveillance etc of its own population… Hitler would have been happy about such a system.
Let’s just switch UK with Hungary.
Or, let’s punch Orban in the face and have both Hungary and UK as members.
Hindsight is 20/20.
However in this case, it was furiously obvious that this was gonna happen even before the vote. All you needed was to inform yourself and think a little bit.
And even if you didn’t, James Acaster spelled out the simplest, most obvious and most sensible argument against Brexit ever said.
If tea wouldn’t convince the British, nothing would
To be fair, UK couldn’t sit on the fence forever and voters probably didn’t want to commit to the EU either.
Source?
YouGov. It’s right there in the picture.
Duh. A direct link to the source, dude.
As a political topic Brexit is becoming less and less relevant.
While people are regretting leaving, there is definitely not a clamouring to rejoin. The EU is barely discussed by politicians.
Rejoining would be without the opt outs the UK had so an actual debate on rejoining probably wouldn’t get enough support to rejoin. It would just be a toxic rerun of the brexit debate.
I dont see this being a political topic again for at least 10 years unless something dramatically changes. And if Le Pen becomes president of France, or AFD gain a share of power in Germany joining the EU may become even more politically toxic.
I wanted to remain, and I regret leaving but leaving has not been as disaterous as expected. Its not been good either but we can live with it.
And the best effect ironically is politicans are not incessantly fighting about the EU. I’m glad they are focusing on other issues now; the years around and after the brexit referendum were horrendous and factional. At least now the politicians are focused on the UKs actual issues such as public service and the economy.
