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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/25667361
By Liam Stack
Liam Stack, who has reported from the Middle East on and off for two decades, was part of the team that covered the war in Gaza for The Times.
Feb. 5, 2025
https://archive.ph/S2pSi
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Takes a special kind of stupid to go “Hey! Remember that guy that did that Muslim ban and called us terrorists? Told netanyahu during the 2024 election cycle to do what he had to do about the war, called for harsh punishments for pro-palestinian protestors? He sure sounds better that Harris!”.
“But nobody saw this coming.”
Except everyone saying “Vote Harris, Trump is a dumpster fire, vote Harris… WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU? VOTE HARRIS! You WANT Trump in office? Vote Harris!”
They were too insignificant to listen to. Now they’re significant enough to blame.
Yup. We’re past the pre-election period where progressive groups are loud minority that need to be ignored because listening to their fringe views will alienate the average voter. Now we’re in the post-election period, where progressive groups are powerful bullies who cost the Democrats the election because they wouldn’t meet their unreasonable demands.
There always is some justification for ignoring progressives and moving to the right.
Yeah. They spend their elections chasing moderates, then when the moderates don’t vote for them, they blame the progressives.
I do feel for these people, but at the same time I’m like “oh no he’s doing that thing we were warned about.” Like, literally everyone said something like this was going to happen yet a portion of that community decided to ignore it. I understand that Kamala was awful on this issue, but you can’t blame it all on her. I wish the world wasn’t as fucked up as it is just like everyone else. It’s like the Trolly problem and y’all decided not to flip the switch because both choices were gonna kill people and you wanted a choice where nobody died even though that choice didn’t exist.
The same people who essentially got Trump into office are now pissed about it? You don’t say…
Something about a leopard? I think, who knows.
There were many issues with how the Democratic Party ran their campaign. All of these issues contributed to the voter apathy that caused the Democrats to lose. Were pro-palestinian and anti-genocide a factor? Sure. Were they the main reason for the loss of the Democratic Party? Absolutely not. Their power and influence are completely marginal compared to the power and influence the Democratic Party had with their billions of dollars spent on ineffective messaging. The Democratic Party fucked up if they were trying to win. They ran to the right with Liz Cheney and Immigration, they pushed progressives away. They continued their uniparty approach to foreign policy despite every opportunity not to, at their own expense.
People who spend more time dunking on, discrediting, and demonizing pro-palestinian people, movements, and organizations, than standing with marginalized groups against Fascism, have never genuinely cared about Palestinian emancipation or equal rights for marginalized people.
Is it understandable to be mad at everyone who didn’t vote Democratic? Absolutely. Does it make sense to hyperfocus anger at anyone pro-palestinian and pro-palestinian sentiment? Absolutely not.
Solidarity is the only way forward to resist and fight against Fascism. Especially Fascism that has gone global. Palestinian emancipation is the intersection of solidarity. The intersection of fighting against global capitalism and the Fascism growing to keep it in place. We need solidarity with everyone, now more than ever. With our fellow workers, community, marginalized groups, everyone.
That includes Democrats, Independents, and even Republicans. Everyone is suffering as our material conditions continue to degrade and we get squeezed with stagnant low wages and increasingly high costs of living. People want change. It needs to be grassroots. The Democratic Party may not be popular but progressive policies are across the board. We all need to join together in solidarity and build a genuine opposition to Fascism.
Democrats’ Working-Class Failures, Analysis Finds, Are ‘Why Trump Beat Harris’
2024 Post-Election Report: A retrospective and longitudinal data analysis on why Trump beat Harris
Polls on policy
Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz’s Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
A 1.8% difference between the vote and considering the deficits in swing states only sure accounts for the threats from the “Uncommitted” crowd.
Get off your justification high horse before you hurt yourself.
They were either so insignificant that the party was right to ignore them, in which case they cannot have changed the outcome, or they are so pivotal that they threw the election to trump, in which case the party was run by fools so enamored with genocide that they would rather have trump than abandon it.
Or they were within that 1.8%, which to an election campaign expecting just thousands to decide the vote, seems like both.
Right. The party is run by fools so enamored with genocide that they would rather have trump than abandon it, then.
Not like the centrist wing has ever stood for anything else.
I’m blaming the subjects of this article right now, the Uncommitted, pro-Trump, anti-Dem voters. That’s where I’m laying blame right now, and laughing that none of this went the way they thought and they should have known better.
Then the party should have courted them. They chose not to.
Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win
Let’s say the 1.8% difference was significant. Why did the Democratic Party run away from that voter block?
Is your issue with what the Uncommitted campaign wanted? A weapons embargo to make Israel take the ceasefire? (The one the US put forward as an Israeli proposal) You’re issue was with how the campaign was run? Despite them going through every proper channel?
They knew how popular a ceasefire and weapons embargo was. Total uncommitted in the Primary was 706,591 (Which may have been undercounted). On average, general turnout is twice that of primary turnout.
They knew an Arms Embargo was required by US and International Law.
Yet we still saw over a Year of Empty Rhetoric From the White House on Israel’s Wars and the campaign continued to alienate voters
They knew it was popular. They knew it was required by international law. They knew how many they risked to lose by continuing to violate the law against public sentiment. Those chose to risk that many votes when campaigning against a fascist. That’s not the behavior of a party that wants to win.
Read my comment in context with the OP. I’m not here talking about where Democrats did what and how. I’m saying that the people crying about Gaza after helping get Trump elected in the face of an obvious choice to NOT have Trump in office can keep on crying about it, because this is what they brought on themselves.
If you were previously one of these people supporting that movement, you can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to say it wasn’t your fault, but you’ll be wrong all day. Anyone supporting not voting for Harris now responsible for all of what is happening now, and will happen as a result.
Got it, your not here to talk about the actual problem with the campaign. You just want to focus your anger on those people torn most by having their family members and friends in Gaza being blown up with American weapons and support. People who were forced into the position to either vote for the party that was enthusiastically funding the bombing of their loved ones, with the only reason why being that the other guy will bomb them more, or protest vote against the administration that greenlit the death of their loved ones.
No analysis of how the Democratic Campaign lost those votes, no understanding of the position Palestinian Americans were put in. Just anger towards people who got scammed with the glimmer of hope of a ceasefire during an ongoing genocide. One only possible because the Democratic Campaign refused to pivot, despite domestic and international law, despite public sentiment, despite how much that pivot would have helped them win against the opposition.
Got it. Enjoy the view up there inbetween punching down
Yes. I’m replying to the context of the post, and you came in with some tertiary argument that you decided to broach yourself.
Palestinian Americans are not the people who “essentially got Trump into office”
A 1.8% difference of the popular vote, but the popular vote doesn’t win elections. Dems lost way more than by 1.8%
And don’t forget they lost the house and senate.
Jesus, dude. Are you here JUST to be annoying and petulant? The popular vote gap for sense. Go read state by state if you want, but less than 5% at large in the swing states, less than 1% in most. THE AVERAGE is therefore still relevant to that number.
Now go run away and play with your Legos or something.
