• yukichigai
    link
    fedilink
    889 months ago

    Beehaw: You should join our instance.

    Also Beehaw: We’re defederating from two of the largest instances.

    • gullible
      link
      fedilink
      769 months ago

      It’s a safe space and the fediverse rapidly expanded tenfold. Beehaw has stated outright that they want to refederate with the big instances, but are delaying until mod tools improve enough to allow them to maintain their safe space for their gaggle of vulnerable folks in the wake of the severely increased workload.

      • yukichigai
        link
        fedilink
        -189 months ago

        That’s nice and all, but “join our instance” and “we’re defederated from the other two biggest instances” are in direct opposition to each other, doesn’t matter what excuses you use.

        • gullible
          link
          fedilink
          379 months ago

          Only if you don’t think about it are they not mutually exclusive ideas. Safe space first, increase size of safe space second.

        • LinkOpensChest.wav
          link
          fedilink
          229 months ago

          Gotta love how spending time with like-minded people has now been framed as an “echo chamber.” I blame reddit, since that’s where I first encountered this nonsense.

          I’m fine with my “echo chambers.” We are able to have really in-depth, adult discussions about things like LGBTQIA issues, mental health, and politics without having to constantly swat away a bunch of sea lions.

          • @samus12345
            link
            English
            109 months ago

            Had to look up “sea lion.” That’s something I’ve seen a lot of, but never knew there was a specific term for.

            • LinkOpensChest.wav
              link
              fedilink
              79 months ago

              Yeah, it’s sadly ubiquitous. I don’t think a day goes by when I don’t witness several sea lions in the wild

              • @samus12345
                link
                English
                79 months ago

                Tucker “I’m just asking questions” Carlson must be the poster child for them.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              29 months ago

              I’ve been running into something adjacent, but doesn’t quite fit that description. Basically people use the tactics of Sealioning but the motivation seems to be just reframing the conversation to whatever they wanted to talk about, rather than necessarily pissing you off. It can be just as annoying though.

              • @samus12345
                link
                English
                59 months ago

                Yeah, that wouldn’t count because they’re just being a standard asshole who wants to control the conversation rather than trying to troll with bad faith questions.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              -2
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Sealioning is an accusation that rests on assuming someone else’s intentions. You can’t ever know for sure if someone is a sealion, because people aren’t mind readers. I usually see sealioning accusations thrown by neurotypicals at autistic people, because they can’t read our emotions like they’re used to and that freaks them out and they assume hostile intent.

              • @samus12345
                link
                English
                49 months ago

                Yes, it could be mistaken for that if a person isn’t paying attention. But the difference between acting in good faith and not is usually pretty obvious as it goes on.

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  -39 months ago

                  Well that’s a tremendous amount of faith in your ability to read other people’s minds. And given you make no distinction between reading the minds of neurotypicals and autistics, I’d bet good money that you’re frequently wrong when you try to read autistic minds. Which would make your actions towards autistic people frequently cruel.

          • DMmeYourNudes
            link
            English
            -19 months ago

            You do realize that associating with primarily people who share the same views or values as you is literally an echo chamber right?

            • @trashgirlfriend
              link
              109 months ago

              Sometimes people want to have a conversation without someone with the username DMmeYourNudes wanting to debate them.

                • @trashgirlfriend
                  link
                  149 months ago

                  No, it’s a community of people discussing things that they know a lot about.

                  You’re basically going “Oh, you don’t want the pigeon to join your chess tournament? Are you scared it will outplay you while shitting on the board?”

            • LinkOpensChest.wav
              link
              fedilink
              69 months ago

              Nope. That term is only used by sea lions and shitlords. It’s one of those terms like “virtue signaling” that immediately lets you know the person has less to offer society than a common housefly or roach.

              • DMmeYourNudes
                link
                English
                -19 months ago

                Really inclusive to just reject anyone who criticizes you lol.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            -5
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            I argue with fascists, exclus, medicalists, and sexists all the time and I’ve never met a sealion. But I have met neurotypical people who expect their sense of cognitive empathy to work on neurodivergent people, and then project all sorts of BS onto them for having a different opinion. IME that term is a dogwhistle for ableism.

            EDIT: Just looked up Beehaw’s guidelines and apparently it’s against the guidelines to accuse someone of sealioning so maybe Beehaw isn’t so bad

            • LinkOpensChest.wav
              link
              fedilink
              69 months ago

              You’ve never spent any time on reddit, I take it?

              That’s a whole colony of sea lions.

              Lucky you, but I encounter sea lions all the time. People like Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro have formed entire careers around sea-lioning.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                -39 months ago

                Well see, sealioning is feigning ignorance, and it’s a simple fact that bigots really are that ignorant. I’ve never met anyone who understood progressive issues and still disagreed, except for amoral people who chose to have little investment and wouldn’t bother to engage in sealioning. This idea you’re proposing that there are people who pretend to be ignorant doesn’t make any sense to me. If they are acting like foolish bigots, I choose to believe them.

        • gullible
          link
          fedilink
          209 months ago

          It’s literally a safe space, you absolute sea lion.

        • @gmtom
          link
          139 months ago

          Please go back to reddit

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      4
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Beehaw: You should join our instance

      Where does it say that?

      This isn’t Reddit/Meta/𝕏, they don’t get paid for selling more ads. If you don’t know why to join, then don’t 🙂

      Beehaw: We’re defederating from two of the largest instances.

      Is “largest” a good thing? Reddit is even larger, is that better?

      Not all people want to be with all others all the time, smaller instances of like-minded people make it easier to pick your own crowds.

  • @riodoro1
    link
    559 months ago

    Holy shit guys. If they wanted to have that requirement let them have it, if people wanted to fulfill it and join its good for them. If they wanted to defederate, thats ok too.

    Not everyone needs to do what you do.

  • @lwuy9v5
    link
    439 months ago

    I’m still a little sad that both solarpunk and beehaw just straight up didn’t respond to my essays back when there weren’t that many lemmy instances yet.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav
      link
      fedilink
      309 months ago

      I don’t remember if I ever got an email either. I just figured out I was approved once I was able to log on.

      I also must say I never wrote an essay lol. Just a few words.

      • @theatomictruth
        link
        249 months ago

        Same, and I literally just wrote “I think Beehaw would be a good fit for me”

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          189 months ago

          They denied me when I wrote basically that, and apparently when you are denied that username is then banned.

          • krellor
            link
            fedilink
            309 months ago

            They had a bug where if you were denied it was supposed to send a notification with a link allowing you to elaborate, but those notices didn’t go out. Then, when you’ve applied but gotten stuck in the unapproved state, your user account exists but is disabled, this you can’t make a new account with that same name. Sort of a sucky situation all around.

    • Kajko
      link
      fedilink
      129 months ago

      I’m on both of those and never got an email, I just tried logging in after a while and it worked.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    359 months ago

    I wrote 3 - 4 sentences and got in.

    They want people to join who will make an effort to contribute to their community.

    So their “”“essay”“” requirement is working if it keeps out people who think that writing a couple lines is “mental”.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      13
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      I earnestly wrote a couple of lines, and then a week later they replied that they don’t have enough information to decide, at which point I just threw my hands up and decided for them. I don’t need that kind of pedantic hoop jumping in my private life.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        99 months ago

        They want to know if your views will mesh well with the community they are trying to curate before they let you in.

        I browsed Beehaw for a bit before deciding that it did, and mentioned it in my application.

        I think they’re a bit more choosy now, as I used to see folks spouting things like “can you not use the word ‘minorities’? It shows a bias. You need to address everyone, not give preferential treatment,” or some other dumb horseshit.

        Honestly, I think they just don’t want to have to deal with people saying stupid shit and they’re tired of trying to argue with people who A). genuinely hold stupid, shitty beliefs, or B). are trolling/pretending to be stupid in order to get a reaction.

        More power to them, if that’s the case.

  • r00ty
    link
    fedilink
    219 months ago

    The beauty of the fediverse. You have the choice of multiple projects and for each project many instances covering political, technical and other points of view. Each of those able to curate and moderate the experience to fit in with expectations.

    If none of those suit you, you can make your own.

    I totally understand what beehaw are trying to do. If there was no choice there might be a problem but, there is plenty of choice.

    • atocci
      link
      fedilink
      9
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      It’s nice here, but we aren’t totally safe from drama either. In the Kbin Codeberg for example, issue #196 attracted the ire of another developer

        • @betterdeadthanreddit
          link
          English
          149 months ago

          It’s not overly long or complicated but here’s a summary:

          Original: Codeberg Kbin/kbin-core, Issue #196

          OP: Hey Kbin dev, you’re using my code without attribution.

          [Comments from other users]

          Kbin dev: Oops, my bad. Here are a couple ways I can fix it. What would you prefer?

          OP: Attribution.

          [Additional comments about license stuff and the nature of open source software]

          Kbin dev: Working on it.

          OP: [Details of suggested fix].

          Fix

          Issue closed.

            • LinkOpensChest.wav
              link
              fedilink
              69 months ago

              I saw the post they’re referencing, and it was a lot more heated than they’re making it out to be. It was ultimately resolved, but it would definitely qualify as drama imo

        • @Anonymousllama
          link
          79 months ago

          I was part of that discussion. There was an ongoing attribution issue where a person claimed their open source project wasn’t being attributed correctly (where it looks like kbin is forked from another older project)

          With the Reddit migration and a range of other issues, old mate who manages kbin didn’t get around to fixing the attribution (choosing to focus on getting the server stable and fixing actual issues)

          It got brough up again last week in a not so flattering post and within a day or two it was resolved (putting to bed the idea that old mate is actually out to steal people’s code)

          Not a great situation overall but it’s great it’s been resolved 🦙🦙🦙

        • @Anonymousllama
          link
          49 months ago

          It’s a great place, everyone’s been smashing through tickets getting things improved, but like with all open source stuff it takes a while to push out the good stuff

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      59 months ago

      Kbin is part of the Fediverse, 𝖄𝖔𝖚’𝖗𝖊 𝖔𝖓𝖊 𝖔𝖋 𝖚𝖘 𝖓𝖔𝖜

    • PastThePixels
      link
      fedilink
      29 months ago

      Don’t forget people on single user instances too! It feels pretty good watching drama and not having to worry about how this affects me.

    • mrbubblesort
      link
      fedilink
      29 months ago

      Seriously, I must’ve hit the jackpot or something picking instances because it’s been pretty much nothing but a stable, drama-free experience for me there

  • dream_weasel
    link
    fedilink
    189 months ago

    Why DO you wanna join? Is it to make sure everybody is nice to you?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      529 months ago

      Uh, Yeah. If you’re going to give me the choice. My free time is limited, why share it with assholes?

      • @Cabrio
        link
        -29
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        Catharsis? Relatability?

        I like being an abrasive prick, so I try to keep it to the disingenuous, the wilfully ignorant, and the maliciously belligerent.

        Be a dick to an asshole, save a pussy.

        • stevedidWHAT
          link
          79 months ago

          The cognitive dissonance is off the fucking charts we’re gonna need to call in FEMA

          • @Cabrio
            link
            -19 months ago

            You should try calling a reading writing hotline instead if you think that’s what cognitive dissonance is.

            • stevedidWHAT
              link
              19 months ago

              Considering that they think they need to punish “dicks”, are a dick themselves in the process and then refuse to accept that they’re themselves a dick is literally cognitive dissonance but you can give those hotlines a call if you want ig

              • @Cabrio
                link
                -19 months ago

                Self awareness isn’t cognitive dissonance.

                Also re-read what I wrote without your own paraphrasing, I chose my words. A dick is not an asshole and if you don’t know the difference here’s the closest thing I’ve got to crayons to explain it to you.

                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y2GwrR-4Q9E

                • stevedidWHAT
                  link
                  19 months ago

                  I’m not gonna talk to a child who can’t keep up with the conversation. The grand majority of people would lump an asshole and a dick in the same group, regardless of your pedantics.

                  You arguing about this proves my point lmao. I’m done talking about this you obviously need to use those crayons yourself. Maybe less tv and more grass touching and you’d have an easier time with knowing general consensus on things like “iM nOt an aSShOlE I’m a DiCk”

        • @Sidhean
          link
          49 months ago

          Oof. Get well soon!

          • @Cabrio
            link
            19 months ago

            I’m just fine, but thanks for caring. Feel free to hit me up the next time you feel offended by an Internet bully and I’ll come be mean to them for you.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    179 months ago

    I literally told them I like their animal community and want to look at animals and mentioned how I feel about bunnies and that was that, I’m an official beehaw member who can look at animals whilst signed on to beehaw lol they’re not for everyone and that’s fine because they’re not trying to be for everyone. If it does seem like a place you want to join they’re not insane about sign up, just give them a good reason you want to be there besides like “trolling lolz”.

  • Queen HawlSera
    link
    fedilink
    English
    179 months ago

    Just don’t ban me for an arbitrary reason you’ll never explain and you’re worlds better than Reddit

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      29 months ago

      From what I’ve seen, you’d have a clear reason, and at least a chance to reply, apologize, and/or change your behavior… but you need to follow the “be nice” rule, and if you don’t agree, it’s the door. So not a good place for shitposting, trolling, sealioning, making fun of others, or general 4chan-ing.

      • Queen HawlSera
        link
        fedilink
        English
        19 months ago

        See I don’t do any of that to begin with, Reddit just loves to Power Trip

        • @jarfilOP
          link
          29 months ago

          Yeah, those are not even banned on Reddit, only disagreeing with how a mod twists the rules is a permabannable offense, and they no longer care about having a million more or less users.

          It’s kind of interesting how Beehaw has fewer rules, and its mods are at the same time stricter and more tolerant.

  • Ethalia
    link
    fedilink
    149 months ago

    If there is anything new for Lemmy as far as I have joined, it’s always the heckin’ instance wars, just pick one and be happy with it Also, there are a lot of instances that require written stuff for joining as an extra filter to avoid bots and trolls ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    • @samus12345
      link
      English
      49 months ago

      You need to put \\\ for the right arm to show up correctly.

        • @samus12345
          link
          English
          49 months ago

          Whatever keeps the right arm from falling off!

  • @Graphine
    link
    149 months ago

    Honestly I’m considering leaving even .world. Mods have just been feeling too Reddit-like recently.

    I guess that’s the nice thing about the fediverse though.

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      19 months ago

      Beehaw’s mods are definitely not Reddit-like. They’re hard on enforcing the “be nice” rule, so even veiled personal attacks are off the table, and you better be nice to the mods too, or they’ll show you the door.

      Whether that aligns more or less with what you’re looking for… you decide. As you said, it’s the nice thing about the Fediverse 🙂

  • voxel
    link
    fedilink
    11
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    usually all you need is just need 1 sentence.

    • @MJKee9
      link
      49 months ago

      My response was “because I’d like to be a member of a second instance.”. They rejected my application.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      4
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      I wrote an essay because i want to brag about being able to write an essay in a foreign language. You can’t stop me , muahahaha !

  • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
    link
    fedilink
    English
    7
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    I just browse their communities from another instance. It’s not like you have to be a member to engage with a particular instance. It might harder to find an instance’s community on your instance because nobody on your instance has subscribed to the community, kick-starting the feed to start populating with its content, but using the outside/3rd party instance/community search tools, I’ve subscribed to several communities across several instances, all from my preferred instance account.

    The only benefit I could see to being specifically on Beehaw is that you would be somewhat shielded from content coming from instances they defederated with; and it’s a big blanket ban. Maybe some of the communities on a blocked instance aren’t piles of shit. I, personally, would rather start with an entirely open instance and block what I don’t want to see myself, over letting someone else make that choice for me. There are very few instances I would block in their entirety so far that I’ve seen.

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      2
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      would rather start with an entirely open instance and block what I don’t want to see myself

      The thing is, federation is a bit… “weird”?


      I mean, a federated instance… doesn’t do any federation by default, it just sits there… until “some user” on the instance decides to subscribe to a community on a federated instance… at which point the instance both starts receiving posts from that community, and starts showing them in the All feed.

      So the All of an instance, is an aggregated “everything someone on the instance has subscribed to”… which is somewhat of a nonsense: why should an instance owner let decide random users what the instance shows in its public feed?

      That means instance owners have to curate which instances do they allow their users to pull into their instance’s All… and thus, defederation.

      But even if there was a separate “public All” and a “members only All”… and even if people could filter out stuff from the “members only All” feed of their instance… the instance would still be pulling the content from other instances. That means bandwidth, CPU, RAM, and storage… for stuff that maybe just a single user of the instance is interested in. It makes little sense.


      Things get much worse, when a ton of users from a large instance, with a completely different mentality, start commenting on random communities from other instances in their instance’s All feed, just because maybe a single user subscribed to it back at some point, without taking the time to get to know the rules of the target instance (maybe they’ll read the community’s sidebar, maybe they won’t).

      At the very least, there should be a prominent warning about “YOU ARE COMMENTING ON ANOTHER INSTANCE, here are its rules”. At the most extreme, breaking the rules of another instance should have consequences at your home one.

      Then, and only then, maybe, a large instance with a lot of resources, could pull content from a ton of other instances, and each user could just filter the All feed however they wanted.


      But that seems unrealistic, and would lead to centralization, which is the opposite of what the whole concept of federation is about.

      I think the current state could be improved, but having the Fediverse split into groups of like-minded instances that gravitate towards each other, is not a bad thing.

      Discoverability could be improved, by having tools that show more clearly which instances “belong together”, so users could pick any instance of the group to access to all others. Then each user could filter out the instances “from the group”, at least at the app level, but maybe also directly at the server to reduce bandwidth usage… and use an app to maybe aggregate communities across groups if they wish.


      Identity management is a separate point: maybe you want to participate in different instance groups with the same identity, maybe have a different one, or even more than one, per like-minded group. Maybe you want to be a furry programmer, but an anonymous porn watcher, a tinkerer with a real face, and a clown in a pointy hat shitposter.

      All of those should be allowed, and even have features to make it easier to not “double dip” (I think Sync may be going in that direction).

  • TheProtagonist
    link
    79 months ago

    Why would I want to join “Beehaw”? Is it any better than Lemmyworld?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      129 months ago

      Don’t know about beehaw but lemmy.world was really getting on my nerves with how slow it was and how often it was down. Lemm.ee has been a much better experience for me.

      • TheProtagonist
        link
        69 months ago

        There had been some downtimes, apparently due to DDoS attacks, but since then everything is fine. Actually I am not a fan of such elitarian approaches, with a hand-picked user base and too strict moderation. I am actually quite happy on Lemmyworld and was curious what would make Beehaw so special. But I’ll keep Lemm.ee in my mind as a possible alternative.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          119 months ago

          Beehaw is just defedrated from most instances and heavily moderated. So it’s a lot of LGBT+ and people who were on other instances and got fed up with tankies.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            -109 months ago

            I haven’t been on beehaw because it sounds like the kind of place that would have bi lesbian discourse or sysmedicalism or something along those lines

    • @jarfilOP
      link
      0
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Hey, no cheating!.. /jk

      It has a different moderation style and culture. Best explained in the “rules” of the instance, which is a single “be nice” and some commentary. Admins are strict, but fair, and give you a chance to change your behavior if you accidentally break the rule.

      • TheProtagonist
        link
        1
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        Their philosophy and rules were a bit of TL;DR for me.

        EDIT: I guess I would be in constant fear of breaking the rules there…

        • @jarfilOP
          link
          1
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          Hehe, the philosophy docs are a honeypot. There is still only a single rule, they just explain why, and what that means. But if you expect a lot of rules, I can see how their size can discourage someone.

          They’ve a added some simplified examples, but maybe the honeypot idea has its own merits… 🤔

          • TheProtagonist
            link
            19 months ago

            It worked on me… 😉 Anyway, I am quite happy here in Lemmyworld and this one also does not defederate that much. It’s possible that Beehaw is the little happy island for the people there, and I wish them to remain happy, but I prefer an instance with less rules and less defederation.

  • Franzia
    link
    fedilink
    59 months ago

    I know some peeps are annoyed at the thought of instance drama or writing essays etc. But this is exactly what I wanted.